KamikazeJohnson
03/21/02 01:21 PM
209.202.47.12
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>>the two have been used interchangeably, historically<<
And Karagin doesn't recall seeing cm used anywhere, and so he's asking for a specific page reference which no one seems able to provide. Which is why this thread refuses to die :-\
So...it's fairly irrelevent whether mm or cm are used. A lot of people claim to have seen cm used in the novels...does anyone have one such novel close at hand so we can get a page number and settle this instead of just arguing based on memory and hearsay?
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Karagin
03/21/02 01:27 PM
63.173.170.175
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The problem is 99% of the info gives the mesurments in milimeters thus if someone is going to write a story set in the BT universe it would make sense for them to use what is given not changing the format just because they feel like it. IF that was the case then each TR would have the weapons having different stats since some one out there doesn't like how the generic gauss does it's damage or the LRMs are to small etc...as it has been said by all the guide books for writting that I have seen, if you are going to write a story set in someone else universe then make sure you don't change major events or change tech that is in use in any way...
And the other problem here is Cray's got be the one who get's in the I am right you are wrong line and he can't even do the research himself, he has to run over to CBT and beg them to help him and as Ruger said over there What's the point of this...
I think Cray in his rush to be the better person and slam me since I asked Hellbringer to tell us where he saw the CM part he is forgetting that Hellbringer has already said that he was mistaken and thus the whole thread was over at the point, but not for Cray...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
03/21/02 01:28 PM
204.245.128.3
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>A 2 meter bore, nice but that's not centimeters...
It disproves your point about millimeters only.
Page numbers are pending.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
03/21/02 01:30 PM
63.173.170.175
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I agree with you, but as I said the game use milimeters...thus again if you write as story in the BT universe then you should follow that convention. That what I was pointing out to Hellbringer and it seemed to have gone over well enough for all expect Cray who seem bent on beating this into the ground and Kamiakze has a good point someone could in fact confuse a 15cm (150mm) gun for a 15mm gun...all because they thought they say two mm instead of a cm...
Any way this is getting no where and I think we all should let it drop and move on to other topics.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/21/02 01:33 PM
63.173.170.175
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No it doesn't. All it says is that the gun has a big bore...that doesn't give the size of the cannon at all. Nice try.
As for the rest forget it, you are turing this into some kind of personal attack or something akin to that and it's getting old fast. Seeing how you have drag folks into this to get your points, it's not worth discussing anymore. The fun has gone from it.
As I said below Hellbringer note that he was mistaken and that should have been the end of it. But some how you think you have a point to prove, why I am not sure, but you seem to think you do.
So while the rest of us move on have your fun and please turn the light out when you leave.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/21/02 01:35 PM
63.173.170.175
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Even if a page number comes up some one will say that their copy being newer or a reprint doesn't have it or someone will email the author and find out it was typo and we are back to the same arguement all over again...
So did anyone see the Piston play the other day?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
03/21/02 01:38 PM
204.245.128.3
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>All it says is that the gun has a big bore...that doesn't give the size of the cannon at all. Nice try
What book did you look in?
>you are turing this into some kind of personal attack or something akin to that and it's getting old fast
No, I'm not. You've made an incorrect statement. I seek to determine the truth.
This is just a matter of finding some references. Getting pissy about it is something you're injecting into the matter.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
03/21/02 01:38 PM
63.173.170.175
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Analogies aside, the golden rule given by a lot of writers is that if you are going to write a story in a pre-set universe then you should follow all of the conventions and convections that it has and not add in new things UNLESS that is what you were asked to do. So making a minior change like using CMs can cause some to confuse the size of the weapons as pointed out above. And in the book "How to write Sci-fi and Fanasty" Orson Scott Card covers the light speed/Warp debate and his take is then two are not the same. I would suggest getting that book since it has a lot of good info in it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/21/02 01:42 PM
63.173.170.175
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I looked in both books...I still can not find it.
And no I have not made an incorrect statement...the game rules, the glossary in the novels and the fluff supports that 99% fo the weapons that have caliber given is in milimeters period.
That is something you either have to live with or not. The only one who is getting pissy is you since you are taking this over to another board to get your answers instead of doing the work your self, now who is dragging this out to become something else...
And see how the rest of the folks really don't care about in any way let it drop man and talk about something else?
Did anyone hear about the little girl that got hit by the hockey puck?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/21/02 01:48 PM
63.173.170.175
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As for the Card thing...well I have heard one person compare him to Stackpole so I can see your point.
As for the rest, while interchangeable some will confuse the two...just as we have all heard folks give the stats for one mech and find out they were talking about heavy named machine or lighter...or not even an offical one...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/21/02 01:49 PM
63.173.170.175
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Good point, my bad...sorry about that.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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novakitty
03/21/02 04:26 PM
192.195.234.26
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Is it not amazing how a simple question can spawn multiple flame wars over whether or not a 150mm cannon can be acceptably expressed as a 15cm cannon. It has all been said, and most of it did not help Hellbringer in his search for answers, so just let it die.
meow
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Cray
03/21/02 04:40 PM
12.91.129.227
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If you don't like it, don't read it.
Karagin:
pg144, TR:2750, Texas: "With a muzzle diameter of almost two meters..."
So, Hellbringer, NAC/40s approach 2000mm. Very lightweight shell for its size, IMO.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
03/21/02 05:46 PM
207.43.144.140
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Wow and that proves what?
NOTHING!
It doesn't prove cenitmeters is used as muchs if at all for milimeters and seeing how this is going no where let's drop it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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novakitty
03/21/02 06:04 PM
192.195.234.26
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It gets in the way MEANINGFUL responses. Grow up.
meow
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Bob_Richter
03/21/02 07:52 PM
4.35.174.250
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...Karagin is justy amazingly good at starting flame wars. I wonder if he'll ever realise it?
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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novakitty
03/21/02 08:21 PM
192.195.234.26
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Thank you for suporting my hypothesis.
meow
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novakitty
03/21/02 08:21 PM
192.195.234.26
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You do add to them yourself, three voices that refuse to be ignored get quite loud.
meow
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Bob_Richter
03/21/02 08:32 PM
4.35.174.250
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Show me where I commented on this flame war.
Or don't, and retract your statement.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Cray
03/21/02 08:59 PM
12.78.177.187
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To answer the original question...
The Invading Clans sourcebook offers some good AC measurements in a single Technical Readout (for the Cauldron Born, pg74), all in millimeters.
There are 75mm LB5Xs, 203mm UAC/20s, and 25mm UAC/2s.
However, as noted, there are also 150mm and 185mm AC/20s.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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novakitty
03/21/02 09:08 PM
192.195.234.26
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On this one you were quite quiet with only two posts, that does not change the fact that you get into flame wars often.
meow
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novakitty
03/21/02 10:20 PM
192.195.234.26
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If the original ACs were catagorized in this manner, and then the term came to describe a level of destruction, ("even though our cannon is only 12cm, it deals the damage of a standard 20cm" or similar commercials) that would explain the current chaos in gun sizes.
meow
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Karagin
03/22/02 02:56 AM
63.173.170.99
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Uhm...this topic ended when Hellbringer said he had misread the calibers, I was more the happy to let it go but others won't so telling me I am supporting your hypothesis, is saying you didn't read all the comments made around here on this one.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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novakitty
03/22/02 07:35 AM
192.195.234.26
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About one third of all posts were under your name. You cannot play innocent.
meow
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Karagin
03/22/02 07:41 AM
63.173.170.139
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I am not playing inncocent...never claimed that. I am saying the thread should have died back with Hellbringer's post to me. That is where all of this crap should have stopped.
So to make this plain and simple let's all let it go and move on...okay?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
03/22/02 09:24 AM
204.245.128.3
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>Does anyone know the measurements for the various classes of AC?
Well, as said several times through here, they're approximate. The Cauldron-born in Invading Clans is a great example.
>I have read in the BT novels that AC sizes are recorded in cm, much like the way personal weapons are measure in mm.
ACs are also typically measured in mm, but differences occur:
"Illusions of Victory" pg 19 about halfway down the page. "So we switch out the regular gauss rifle on my Dragon Fire for the lighter version and rip out the ECM package, then upgrade my autocannon to the twelve-centimeter bore of a Defiance Disinitegrator."
"Flashpoint" from pg 253, again about halfway down the page. "She toggled for an ammunition dump, ejecting two and a half tons of twelve-centimeter ordnance out the rear ports, where it rained impotently over the ground."
>Hey all, I am trying my hand at some fan-fiction writing.
Flames over nitpicky stuff aside, have you made any progress on the fanfic?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
03/22/02 10:03 AM
63.173.170.186
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Why don't you credit your source from CBT?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
03/22/02 10:51 AM
204.245.128.3
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It was a Sarna source, actually. Since I wasn't taking any credit for the research, just posting the page numbers, I didn't see the need for a full bibliography and closing credits. Thanks for the effort were given in PMs. He can step forward if he wants.
The Texas reference was half mine - I was reminded and looked it up in my copy of TR2750.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
03/22/02 10:54 AM
63.173.170.172
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Sure if you say so...but the thread over on CBT speaks for it's self on this one...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
03/22/02 10:57 AM
204.245.128.3
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I got quite a few pointers to references over there, but no page numbers. The Texas reference was pointed out there, for example, and I dug that up.
I'm not sure what you're getting at, though. I asked for the page references you wanted on a broader forum.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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