Karagin
03/27/02 09:41 PM
63.173.170.139
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No sorry I didn't think this would cause an uproar...in fact it was posted to see if anyone agreed with me. I am sorry others felt that they need to flame and attack because they didn't like how the topic was setup.
But up until they posted, no one was flamming or attack anyone. It was decent set of questions and comments all in a normal debate.
I don't know how you got the idea that this was anything more, but you are wrong on that one. The topic and poll was simple set of questions, you looked over the info given, and voted. Nothing about that suggests anything else was going on.
Up until the posting by Warner and his way of posting it, NOTHING was going on to suggest a flame war was in the making...and as it has been pointed out there are better ways to tell someone hey you forgot this part or that and so if you are going to lay blame make sure you lay it equally or don't lay it at all.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
03/27/02 10:01 PM
132.234.1.13
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Karagin, I will not be drawn into a slanging match. If you remember, I quite often take your part in these sort of debates.
Even if you did not intend to make this into a flame war, your...ah...aggresively militant way of expressing your opinions and your attacks upon both Warner and Chunga aggravated the situation.
Granted, the lower half of this thread is conducted with the civility and manners that are a defining characteristic of us BattleTech gamers, but the top half is, on the whole, much more confrontational. Warner and Chunga were both needlessly aggresive towards you, but you responded in such a way as to inflame the situation.
The biggest issue they have was with the fact you neglected to mention the BV modifiers for pilots (which, yes, we should have spotted for ourselves) and the fact that you did not mention the special rules for the scenario. If you have read Wolves on the Border, and the background for the scenario, you will know the situation in which that scenario is played out. Takashi Kurita was insulted by the fact that the Dragoons did not want to contract for more training of the DCMs, and doubly so when they wanted to leave. He threw wave after wave of first the Ryuken, and then other regular regiments, at the Dragoons, hoping to either smash the Dragoons so badly they would have to surrender and be absorbed into the DCMS, or at the very least damage them so badly the Dragoons would be useless to the next House that was hiring them (IIRC, the Federated Suns). The Dragoon forces are being set up to loose in that scenario. Only a good player will be able to win using the Dragoon forces. You (I prefer to believe by mistake, others have their own opinions) did not mention the BV modified pilots, nor the fact that the BV gap is, in fact, substantially lower than as you presented it as.
If you are tring to point out that the BV system is inherently flawed, using the rules as written, then you are preaching to the converted. In some cases, you are preaching to the Inquisition that is activelky hunting down those abberant BV users and punishing them for their heresy. The BV system works only between players of equal footing (skill-wise) and can be unbalanced by other factors.
There is no way that the Dragon and Dragoon forces can be considered equal for this game (by BV, by CV, by tonnage, or by inspection), and nobody is disagreeing with you there. They disagree with your comments. Attacking or defending a person is much different to attacking or defending their opinions and comments, and it is a line which you have crossed. Admit you made a mistake; the fight with Warner and Chunga will end. Refuse, and continue to mindlessly sledge them, and the situation will perpetuate itself.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
03/27/02 10:09 PM
63.173.170.139
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First, I gave the skills as listed, they are there for both side, second, I wasn't interested in anything else beyond the idea of is it a mismatch with given BV...adjusted or not, the point was vailid.
You are correct I could have handled the crap from Warner better, very true and I am sorry I lost my cool. But I am sick and tired of him and his little buddies thinking their word is the last word that can be said about anything and that they know all there is to know about this game thus we all should bow before them and in awe and not comment on things they have spoken on.
Third I did not hide the fact that I got the info from and I clearly told folks where it came from when asked. Was I wrong for going off on those two upstarts? Yes I was and for that I am sorry. But I felt I had a vaild point and was looking for other folk's comments and ideas.
And to clear up the misunderstanding I have read the novel and the scenario many times over and that I think is a mute point.
I can admit I left out the victory condintions since I haven't seen anything that suggest they play a role in the BV of the forces...so to me they were not needed. For the most part scenarios usally given you some kind of victory condintions of taking out the whole enemy force and thus that is almost a standard out come for some folks games.
If I made any mistake then I am sorry, I didn't have any other motives in mind other then to get folk's opinions on the topic as stated above...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
03/28/02 03:35 AM
134.121.247.162
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Kurita: 3946
Dragoons: 3028
This is according to HMPRO.
It is CLEARLY a BV mismatch.
And it's a battlefield mismatch too, no commentary on the BV system here.
Furthermore, the WLF-1 isn't a very dragoony 'Mech. More of a Kell Hound Special.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Nightmare
03/28/02 10:24 AM
194.251.240.107
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Well, 4-against-3 isn`t exactly BAD odds, all things considered. Most commanders in modern (2002 AD) armies
prefer to have at least 3-1 before attacking. That`s the minimum edge you want, in order to win without taking crippling losses.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Nightmare
03/29/02 12:32 AM
194.251.240.107
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4-3 in BV, 4-2 in number of units. The Dragoons will have to move around a bit to keep the Kuritist from trapping them, but
it shouldn`t be impossible.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Bob_Richter
03/29/02 07:50 AM
134.121.157.14
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As always in Battletech, tactics and luck will be decisive. The Dragoons just need more of both to win.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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