Cheapbuzz
06/17/02 07:25 AM
132.15.225.211
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I really hate this CBT term I don’t know about the rest of you out there but I don’t have any miniatures, rulebooks or games or any other Items that even have that C word in it. It just irritates me every time I see it. What were they thinking when they changed the name? It was probably something like (Hey man can I borrow your crack pipe? I seem to have misplaced mine oh and by the way lets change the name to CBT) Those classic crackhead freaks need to die......or at least change the name back.
"If it aint broke don’t fix it"
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Khan_Robinette
06/17/02 12:27 PM
216.24.92.31
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I agree...yes it is a classic game, but Jezus, makes me feel like an old timer hearing Classic Battletech.
Sorta like when they brought out NEW coke alloooong time ago, and then of course they ended up calling old coke, coke classic. Maybe they should have changed the name of the new game and left Battletech alone.
Well anyhoos, I hate posting when I am at work, flipping back and forth between windows makes me lose track of what I am doing.
"Teach me and I'll teach you
If you need a hand I'll give you two
Respect me and I'll respect you
Disrespect me and I will destroy you"
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Greyslayer
06/17/02 05:30 PM
137.172.211.9
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The new game is called 'Mechwarrior' not battletech. Under this the old roleplaying system is called Mechwarrior which might class a change to 'Classic' Mechwarrior. There seems to be no valid reason to hold the name battletech for WK, it is not marketable for them (where the name Mechwarrior is) and Classic Battletech does create this 'old-timer' image for me as well.
So really is there a point to change something that doesn't really need it?
Greyslayer
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Acolyte
06/17/02 08:12 PM
64.180.255.235
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REAL BattleTech, myself. And MechWarrior 3025 as opposed to MWII, MW3, and MW Dork Age.
Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
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Khan_Robinette
06/17/02 10:14 PM
216.24.85.72
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Good point, I hate posting when I am at work, I lose focus on my work and whatever I am talking about.
Should have left it Battletech, and changed our RPG to Classic Mechwarrior....wait I think you said that.
Wife has been checking out the MWDA website, says she is thinking of buying a starter set and a couple of boosters to test it out with some of the other ppl in our group. Called her a heretic :P Needless to say I am sleeping on the Classic Couch tonight, using the Classic Laptop to post.
Anyways, this CLASSIC Old Timer needs to reply to a few more posts the crash before work.
"Teach me and I'll teach you
If you need a hand I'll give you two
Respect me and I'll respect you
Disrespect me and I will destroy you"
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Karagin
06/18/02 01:12 AM
63.173.170.135
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Hey the Classic Couch is a real classic if it has that 70s feel to it...and the Kool Aid stain that will not come out no matter what you try on it...
And one thing I learned about women, calling them a heratic about a game when they are dead set on doing it their way is not healthy...yes sir, when GF is the DM one needs to NOT tick her off buy commenting that her use of Orcs is overkill on us as PCs... 
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
06/18/02 01:14 AM
63.173.170.135
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You know I have heard that one already between a guy who plays nothing but 3025 level stuff when talking to two guys who are die hard Clan players...they had no idea about the olden days of the game.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Acolyte
06/20/02 02:04 AM
64.180.255.235
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Classic just means you can read, and that you have more attention span than a Nintendo-generation-snot-nosed-thumb-in-mouth-hiphop-cap-on-backwards BRAT! 
Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
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Karagin
06/20/02 02:06 AM
63.173.170.216
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Wouldn't those be the 99% market shares WK hopes to get into playing MWDA?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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MacLeod
06/20/02 02:14 AM
209.247.246.213
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I think that's the point. WizKids doesn't want the little guys finding out that there's a better game out there that costs less money (cuz you don't have to buy fifty packs of doohickeys to find the one you want). To prevent it, they tacked on 'Classic' to make them think it's outdated and no fun.
Stupid corporate buisiness dudes and market testers....... 
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
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ErichRaulfestone
06/23/02 07:19 PM
164.76.107.198
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Simply put, so the less knowledgeable could tell the differeance between the two.
Erich Raulfestone
Rangers, Lead the Way!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
Isaiah 6:8
......and I went......
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Karagin
06/23/02 07:21 PM
63.173.170.87
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Between what two games?
Last time I looked there was only one game called Battletech. 
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ErichRaulfestone
06/23/02 07:52 PM
164.76.107.198
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Between kiddie-clickytech and the TRUE game, thats the diff.... 
Erich Raulfestone
Rangers, Lead the Way!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
Isaiah 6:8
......and I went......
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Karagin
06/23/02 08:38 PM
63.173.170.96
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Okay we have the game Battletech and the other game with the name Mechwarrior...so why do we need to add classic to the name?
I can tell the difference between the two...and I am sure others can as well. The couch potatos who WK is after can at least read can't they? 
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
06/24/02 12:33 AM
202.138.19.70
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I personally hate the forums there. Either what you say gets ignored, or small-minded idiots flame you down because you have a differing opinion. For example, right now in the Designs board there is a discussion about an Atlas IIC. Someone suggested using ATMs, and I said I felt that it changed the feel of the Atlas. Said person then proceeded to swear at me (his post was deleted) and told me that I was a fool for not seeing things his way. Bah. *Shakes head.*
At least here people listen to what you say, think about it, and reply with an argument that can be backed up. And, for the most part, they do it politely.
End of bitch session.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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ErichRaulfestone
06/24/02 08:35 AM
164.76.107.190
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I guess you misunderstand me. What I meant was that their was to be a distinction between the ORIGINAL Btec
and the newer kiddie-click.
Erich Raulfestone
Rangers, Lead the Way!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
Isaiah 6:8
......and I went......
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Karagin
06/24/02 08:52 AM
63.173.170.143
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No I understood you completely.
There is no need for the Classic part since the other game is called MECHWARRIOR.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ErichRaulfestone
06/24/02 08:54 AM
164.76.107.190
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sigh....the NEW BTECH version IS the clicktech, or are you just ignoring that??? Mechwarrior is the
game for individual mechwarriors, not mechs as I was talking about
Erich Raulfestone
Rangers, Lead the Way!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
Isaiah 6:8
......and I went......
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Karagin
06/24/02 08:59 AM
63.173.170.143
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Did you miss something?
The click based game is called MECHWARRIOR DARK AGE. This would be the game WK is going to relase in August at GenCon.
That doesn't have Battletech in the title at ALL. Battletech, the game that FP is trying to keep alive has NO clicky bases, has NO MageKnight like pieces. It has miniatures and cardboard maps. Lots of Sourcebooks and things like that.
Do you see the difference?
The need for Classic in front of Battletech is not needed since the game WK is putting out DOESN'T HAVE BATTLETECH IN THE TITLE AT ALL.
Or do you know something rest of us don't as far as the name of the WK game goes?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ErichRaulfestone
06/24/02 09:03 AM
164.76.107.190
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I see, but for us "old farts" like me that played it when it first came out, I like the word Classic in front
because it is a classic
Erich Raulfestone
Rangers, Lead the Way!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
Isaiah 6:8
......and I went......
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Karagin
06/24/02 09:05 AM
63.173.170.143
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I agree the game is a classic and yes I have too have been playing since it was originally call BATTLEDROIDS...but tossing the CLASSIC on there to make so folks can tell it apart from MWDA is very silly and childish.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ErichRaulfestone
06/24/02 09:08 AM
164.76.107.190
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Well, talk to Warner about it then, its his website.....
Erich Raulfestone
Rangers, Lead the Way!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
Isaiah 6:8
......and I went......
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Karagin
06/24/02 09:13 AM
63.173.170.143
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Sure...will do that right along with a ton of other things..
 .I thought it was WK's website?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Greyslayer
06/24/02 10:57 AM
137.172.211.9
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I could see the need for names for time-period sake. For example if they actually released a series of 3025 sourcebooks and novels I would say there would be a need for a preceeding title (as if Clan rubbish should be classed as 'classic' anyway ;p) but as it stands nope there is no logical reason to force a change to name that does not need it.
Greyslayer
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JadeDragon
06/24/02 02:51 PM
206.228.153.2
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Classic Battletech is FanPro English version of their website.
Warner is the webmaster there.
The JadeDragon
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Karagin
06/24/02 05:42 PM
63.173.170.184
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Thanks now if we could only get them to drop the Classic part...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ErichRaulfestone
06/24/02 07:13 PM
164.76.107.191
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Ummm, seriously doubt it since THEY are the ones who asked Warner to put it up there....
Erich Raulfestone
Rangers, Lead the Way!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
Isaiah 6:8
......and I went......
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Khan_Robinette
06/25/02 10:25 AM
216.24.92.31
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I dunno, 18 years with battletech, and to me classic just sounds OLD. Makes me feel like the classic fifties, or that song is really a classic, etc etc etc
"Teach me and I'll teach you
If you need a hand I'll give you two
Respect me and I'll respect you
Disrespect me and I will destroy you"
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Khan_Robinette
06/25/02 10:30 AM
216.24.92.31
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Wife got a hold of her MWDA Promo set...I played with it, tossed it around the room, compared it to my REAL MECHS...hmm plastech..no wait even plastech was tougher than this stuff, this stuff bends, sorta like rubber...and IT MOVES...ooohhh ahhhh...its bigger than my REAL MECHS though...I think I will let it prune the bushes at the Memorial Gardens or something.
And the infantry...they got this weird wlking into the wind pose...the vehicle is huge, I parked soem Savannah Masters in the body of it!
Anyways, I think I am gonna make up a Battletech cheesy sheet for the Lawn Boy Mech.
"Teach me and I'll teach you
If you need a hand I'll give you two
Respect me and I'll respect you
Disrespect me and I will destroy you"
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ErichRaulfestone
06/25/02 10:42 AM
164.76.107.187
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LOL!!!! Now THATS what should be done to click-tech...
Erich Raulfestone
Rangers, Lead the Way!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
Isaiah 6:8
......and I went......
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Cheapbuzz
06/26/02 02:21 AM
132.15.225.211
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There is no talking to Warner about this issue I tried that. Since he backs Jordan 100% he pretty much just shuts down any point you try to make. And he is always right.(in his mind)
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Warner_Doles
06/26/02 09:29 AM
206.27.40.65
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I stated:In reply to:
Sorry CheapBuzz, but Classic BattleTech is here to stay. The Trademark and Copyright for it has been secured and this is what we will have forever and ever.
This is what I was told from Randall when I asked him why do we need to continue with Classic. He stated to me that Classic BattleTech is the name of the game for now on.
Now to your claim. In reply to:
There is no talking to Warner about this issue I tried that.
Correct. Warner is not in any position to dictate policy change to Jordan Weisman or any other officer of the company. So for me to discuss something like this is meaningless and a waste of my time.In reply to:
Since he backs Jordan 100% he pretty much just shuts down any point you try to make.
Mighty strong assumption you layed down. Care to enlighten me on how you came up with this idea? You asked me for my personal opinion and here is exactly what I stated to you.In reply to:
'but if it were up to you would you have changed the name?'
Let me ask this. Is it the Name that makes the game or those playing? What if the game had been originally named BattleMech instead of BattleTech? Whould that made any different? I don't think so. Classic BattleTech is a name now that means a game that has grown past its origins. Its now stronger and has a foundation on which to build. Focusing on a 'name' isn't important as it is to focus on playing the game. Which is more important to you?
Of which you never answer me. So I will ask again. Which is more important to you, focusing on the name game or focusing on playing the game?
Since you know everything in my thoughts I'll leave you to your wild assumptions and make belief ideas.
In reply to:
And he is always right.(in his mind)
Thank you for your unkind word here. Which I see is standard around these parts to be allowed to disparage my person.
For those who want to validate what I said so I don't get accused of being a liar again:
Remark #1 to Cheapbuzz
&
Remark #2 to Cheapbuzz.
I am sure you will find them in order.
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Durango
06/26/02 04:09 PM
65.212.106.131
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Ok, first:
"Since he backs Jordan 100% he pretty much just shuts down any point you try to make."
Well, I actually can vouch for this. I called Jordan an "opportunistic capitalist", who deservered NO recognition for allowing Battletech to continue. Why? Because other people were making him into a saint for allowing Battletech to continue. In fact, it is no skin at all off of Jordan's nose to allow someone ELSE to shoulder the burden of Battletech, so he can continue to receive royalties.
For my efforts, I was most severely rebuked and consequently squeltched. (Read: Banned from CBT message boards.)
Second:
"Let me ask this. Is it the Name that makes the game or those playing? What if the game had been originally named BattleMech instead of BattleTech? Whould that made any different? I don't think so. Classic BattleTech is a name now that means a game that has grown past its origins. Its now stronger and has a foundation on which to build. Focusing on a 'name' isn't important as it is to focus on playing the game. Which is more important to you?"
Well, indisputably, you make a good point.
HOWEVER. When it comes to "Brand name recognition", or "customer loyalty", it just would make more sense to allow real Battletech to retain it's name. Changing the name was a bad idea.
But then, let's face it...Wizkids (and associated cronies) have been dead set on alienating the Battletech crowd from day one. Totally changing the story, making it so people have to throw out their existing collections and buy an all new collection, trying to sell us kiddie toys (Posable Action Figures? C'mon, you can't be serious!?), in short, making every effort to cast off what had been a very loyal constituency of players.
We are now the unwanted red-headed stepchild of an abandoned relationship. And we are being treated accordingly.
...oh, and let's not forget...we are also being suppressed or squeltched if we complain.
Oh, and by the way, one of us is a "crackhead freak". Can you guess which one?
Edited by Durango (06/26/02 04:13 PM)
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rock
06/26/02 04:27 PM
152.163.204.214
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Durango,
I wondered where you went. I hardly ever agreed with you, but you did raise some really good questions that needed to be addressed. I applaud you for your efforts, even if I rarely agreed with your point-of-view. You however did make me think and reappraise my points-of-view. Did not change them, but I did reappraise them and I continue to reappraise them.
I did not know you got banned. I am sorry to hear that.
Edited by rock (06/26/02 05:02 PM)
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Warner_Doles
06/26/02 04:51 PM
206.27.48.9
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In reply to:
For my efforts, I was most severely rebuked and consequently squeltched.
Ah severely rebuked? For voicing your opinion on Jordan? Nay I rebuked you for your treatment of an administrator in your comments and that was it. Though I wasn't happy of seeing what many of us (admin staff and the Boss) felt was slanderous and very ugly remarks at someone that you don't know anything about unwelcome for a family message board. As I told you as much in my postIn reply to:
'Durango: What's your point?
Me: What is point? That Jordan Weisman is not the Demon that you have been trying to make him out to be. Your attitude on this whole affair has been less then amicable. Some could almost make the case that you are being confrontational about the whole thing in my opinion.
Durango: I tend to get aggravated when people try to put a halo behind Jordan Weisman. The man is a capitalist, not a philanthropist.
Me: And I get aggravated when someone decides to come in and open their mouth and spew out such immature and inciteful junk as I've just read through. If you have so much as a problem on this put it to a PM or email. Don't poison the bandwidth with trash as you just did in trying to make an administrator look bad. All because he decides to try to explain to you on how you are wrong in your assumptions about a person instead of banning you for your lack of judgement. And then you turn around and post this bovine excrement in a reply? I don't think so. You may have an opinion, but your opinion does not allow you to treat people in this fashion under my watch.
And had I done this as you are claiming you are being done In reply to:
...oh, and let's not forget...we are also being suppressed or squeltched if we complain.
Your post would have been removed. Yet it remains for all to see. But I didn't. Its there for everyone to see. The supression and oppression you and others are spreading about is not there. I believe any reasonable person what would take time to read all 40 of your posts would come to the same conclusion that Peter did when he decided to ban you. And its ironic that many people posting behind you were saying that you were doing the same thing elsewhere on the other boards too. So while you are standing there again pointing a finger at me and attempting to demonize me like you did in that very ugly and hateful email you sent me in reply, please present all the facts so everyone can see the whole truth. In reply to:
(Read: Banned from CBT message boards.)
I can't answer that one. I didn't ban you and I said I would not. So if you want to air out the laundry I am sure that I can get Peter to make it very public too along with any other verifiable proof in emails and such to show what and why. But heh that's ok you and a few others have called us Facist with your rebuke so it really doesn't matter anymore now does it?
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Karagin
06/26/02 04:59 PM
63.173.170.65
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Not to jump in here but when did Battletech and anything related to it become a family game?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Warner_Doles
06/26/02 05:07 PM
206.27.48.9
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In reply to:
Not to jump in here but when did Battletech and anything related to it become a family game?
When that was the mandate given for the Site and Webboard to be family oriented so that we could promote an atmosphere where families could come and not fear being assaulted by abusive languages and things like that. You remember my reply to you about what they want to see for submissions in writings and such? Now you know why. Just like they have over on WizKids site, we are the same on ClassicBattleTech.Com too.
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Karagin
06/26/02 05:12 PM
63.173.170.65
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I see...I still say they hear far worse on Prime TV and movies then they would from us ranting and raving...thanks.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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MacLeod
06/26/02 05:13 PM
65.95.253.153
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How can anything about BT be family related? The whole game revolves around blowing people up. I mean, you could consider it wholesome violence, just like what they show on the news about the Middle East, but it really wouldn't work. Ultra Autocannons and PPCs just aren't for little kids or families. They never will be.
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
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Cheapbuzz
06/27/02 06:01 AM
132.15.225.211
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#1 "Mighty strong assumption you layed down. Care to enlighten me on how you came up with this idea? " The thread where I came to this conclusion I believe was called (And the line forms to the right)
#2"Which is more important to you?"
The game is.
#3"Thank you for your unkind word here. "
Some people do believe they are always right. From viewing your posts I had came to this (unfair) conclusion.
If you feel I have slandered you or if I have hurt your feelings I sincerly apologize.
Bryan
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Durango
06/27/02 11:45 AM
65.212.106.131
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A transcript of the conversation between Peter Smith and Durango, on the Classic Battletech boards:
1. feffer37 asks "What happens if the Pheonix [the original planned name for Mage Tech] crashes and burns?"
My response:
In reply to:
Not "what happens if" but, "what happens when". Like most collectible games, this one will be a brightly burning fad, right up until the players wise up. (Probably right about the third expansion, when they figure out that the first set they spent money on is no longer useful for anything but landfill.)
The "que sera, sera" attitude would have us simply accept the demise of Battletech.
And the Old Guard would be happy (I know I would be) but someone already pointed it out...the failure of one would herald the failure of the other.
Which would be acceptable to me, if it weren't for the fact that Battletech's demise was hastened by this newcomer. Why do I say that? Because I've seen many players quit in disgust, selling off entire collections. They would not have done that had it not been instigated by Wizkiddies.
It was, to use an expresson, the final straw. As Feffer pointed out, Battletech people have been very put upon over the course of their game. Seeing it turned into a childs toy, a Posable Action Figure, was the first nail in our coffins.
I would say to those, who complain that it takes all day to play, "Didn't you budget your day for play, anyway?"
Peter Smith's response to me:
In reply to:
D>"if it weren't for the fact that Battletech's demise was hastened by this newcomer"
If FASA was doing so well, why would they have sold off the rights to most of their games to WizKids Games? Seems that FASA probably would have closed shop anyway, taking BattleTech with it. At least WizKids gives us an extension on life.
My response to Peter Smith:
In reply to:
Durango> Which would be acceptable to me, if it weren't for the fact that Battletech's demise was hastened by this newcomer. Why do I say that? Because I've seen many players quit in disgust, selling off entire collections. They would not have done that had it not been instigated by Wizkiddies.
PS> (quoting Durango) "if it weren't for the fact that Battletech's demise was hastened by this newcomer"
If FASA was doing so well, why would they have sold off the rights to most of their games to WizKids Games?
Well, I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that a company that deep in debt was probably forced to, to pay off bills. Besides, there may have been a certain party, with money and a vested intrest in the Battletech name waiting in the wings to swoop in like a vulture over a carcass, once the jackals had finished with it.
In reply to:
Seems that FASA probably would have closed shop anyway, taking BattleTech with it. At least WizKids gives us an extension on life.
Wizkids is giving us a totally different game, and telling us it's Battletech.
The "extention on life" you speak of reminds me of a girl named Karen Ann Quinlann. Look up the quote sometime, and you'll see how I perceive this particular "extention on life"...if Mage Tech is what we're getting, better they had unplugged us.
I'd just as soon play PokeMon.
Peter Smith's response to me:
Durango> "Well, I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that a company that deep in debt was probably forced to, to pay off bills. Besides, there may have been a certain party, with money and a vested intrest in the Battletech name waiting in the wings to swoop in like a vulture over a carcass, once the jackals had finished with it."
Interesting analogy. It would be more appropriate if WizKids bought the rights *after* FASA had closed up shop. As it is, the rights were purchased before such event ever occured. So the buyout is more like a transplant. And in this case, there was no rejection by the host.
Durango> "Wizkids is giving us a totally different game, and telling us it's Battletech."
Actually, they're giving us something called MechWarrior: Dark Ages. New game, set a couple decades after the close of the FedCom Civil War.
However, they also licensed FanPro to continue production of Classic BattleTech. Which is what this is all about. The webpage, the message board, the new product. But let me be absolutely clear about something: WizKids still owns Classic BattleTech. They, and they alone, are responsible for saving the game from ending up among the lists of games no longer in production. Keep that in mind the next time you decide to bash them for coming up with a new game.
(Now, is it me, or is this guy taking a "So stop arguing with me, or else" stance, here? To me, he was sounding like HE was getting a little aggressive.)
My response to Peter Smith:
In reply to:
D>"Well, I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that a company that deep in debt was probably forced to, to pay off bills. Besides, there may have been a certain party, with money and a vested intrest in the Battletech name waiting in the wings to swoop in like a vulture over a carcass, once the jackals had finished with it."
PS> Interesting analogy. It would be more appropriate if WizKids bought the rights *after* FASA had closed up shop. As it is, the rights were purchased before such event ever occured. So the buyout is more like a transplant. And in this case, there was no rejection by the host.
First, when the rights were bought may be moot, as it was, FASA was all but a rotting corpse. At the very least, one could say they were emaciated from all the lawsuits, and in a weakened condition. The vultures were circling.
In your analogy, you say there was no rejection by the host. Well, that all depends on what you see as being the "host". I've seen quite a bit of rejection from the body of players which is BATTLETECH. They do have some pride left in them, and I believe they can quite successfully resist.
As for licencing FanPro to "allow" continued production of product, I would like to point out...that was not altruism. It was simply shrewd business. Obviously, it was not done from the "generosity of thier hearts", it was done so they could continue to collect royalties.
So let's not bandy words...they "saved the game" simply to garner more money. Don't ask for appreciation.
Peter Smith's response to me:
D>"and I believe they can quite successfully resist."
Resist what? A new game system? I hate to break it to you, seeing as it'll upset your perspective on the issue, but the WizKids Ninja are not going to be breaking into your house, take away all your Classic BattleTech product, and force you to play MechWarrior: Dark Ages. If you don't want to buy, don't.
However, let me be crystal clear about something. If you want to see new Classic BattleTech material, then it is in your best interests to hope that Dark Ages does not "crash and burn". For if WizKids can't make a buck off of a new system, what makes you think that they'll allow FanPro to continue to produce new material at all?
D>"So let's not bandy words...they "saved the game" simply to garner more money. Don't ask for appreciation."
I'm curious if you've ever actually met Jordan Weissman at all. I finally meet him, face-to-face, last August, and he is definately not the person you make him out to be. Prior to that, in the months of March and April, I had been helping Randall Bills and Chris Trossen pack up materials at the FASA offices (I was attending college a mile north so I was usually able to help after classes). There was nothing to indicate that the Classic line was going to be picked up, by anybody. Field Manual: Periphery and the Revised Master Rules were going to be the last two books released, ever. Now we fast-forward to GenCon in August. Jordan's announcement that FanPro was going to produce new material was both a major surprise to all of us as well as a major feeling of relief. Jordan agreed to continue to support a fanbase that had been going for seventeen years, with a product that he knew would have nowhere near the financial return that his other projects (Mage Knight, MW: DA, HeroClix) would offer. However, he put that aside and took one of his first projects in gaming and gave it new life.
Keep that in mind the next time you decide to berate him for coming up with an idea that you don't agree with.
(Ok, here it is again...he's beginning to deride me. "Keep that in mind [implied 'you mark']..." Also, he takes the opportunity to use sarcastic melodramatics "Ninja are not going to be breaking into your house" when it was him who first introduced the Host/Invading virus analogy! It is HE, not ME, who begins to become derisive. "I hate to break it to you [implied 'you idiot, and you don't know what you're talking about']..." In fact, I do. Your problem, Peter Smith, is that you can't argue my point. THUS the banning.)
My response to Peter Smith:
In reply to:
D>"and I believe they can quite successfully resist."
PS> Resist what? A new game system? I hate to break it to you, seeing as it'll upset your perspective on the issue, but the WizKids Ninja are not going to be breaking into your house, take away all your Classic BattleTech product, and force you to play MechWarrior: Dark Ages. If you don't want to buy, don't.
Thanks for the advice, I hadn't thought of that. In fact, I know of a few people who are more active than just posting on the boards when it comes to Mage Tech. Melodramatics aside, I'm sure that they will have an impact.
PS> However, let me be crystal clear about something. If you want to see new Classic BattleTech material, then it is in your best interests to hope that Dark Ages does not "crash and burn". For if WizKids can't make a buck off of a new system, what makes you think that they'll allow FanPro to continue to produce new material at all?
Again, melodramatics aside, I would refer you to the plight of Karen Ann Quinlann.
As for what makes me think they would "allow"...well, I have one word for you: royalties. How much money does Wizkids spend to support FanPro's operation? I submit that it's a 100% profit deal for Wizkids, that FanPro continues to generate revenue. What skin off Jordan's nose, if Battletech lives on or dies? I'll tell you what, he gets no more of that MONEY, that's what. You think that he's going to turn down money? Considering what he's done to Battletech to make money? It's nothing to him to "allow" FanPro to continue making money.
You need to adjust your viewpoint. It's not benevolence. It's avarice. Crystal. Clear.
In reply to:
D>"So let's not bandy words...they "saved the game" simply to garner more money. Don't ask for appreciation."
PS> I'm curious if you've ever actually met Jordan Weissman at all. I finally meet him, face-to-face, last August, and he is definately not the person you make him out to be. Prior to that, in the months of March and April, I had been helping Randall Bills and Chris Trossen pack up materials at the FASA offices (I was attending college a mile north so I was usually able to help after classes). There was nothing to indicate that the Classic line was going to be picked up, by anybody. Field Manual: Periphery and the Revised Master Rules were going to be the last two books released, ever. Now we fast-forward to GenCon in August. Jordan's announcement that FanPro was going to produce new material was both a major surprise to all of us as well as a major feeling of relief. Jordan agreed to continue to support a fanbase that had been going for seventeen years, with a product that he knew would have nowhere near the financial return that his other projects (Mage Knight, MW: DA, HeroClix) would offer. However, he put that aside and took one of his first projects in gaming and gave it new life.
Keep that in mind the next time you decide to berate him for coming up with an idea that you don't agree with.
Ok, what I just interpreted from that is, "I met him when he decided that making a little money from FanPro from royalties was a better idea than shutting them down out of spite...and we were suprised. Then he decided to make a new game and slap the Mechwarrior label on it."
What's your point?
BTW, I'd like to apologize for my aggressive stance in my last post. I tend to get aggravated when people try to put a halo behind Jordan Wiesman. The man is a capitalist, not a philanthropist.
(Ok, in this post I'm beginning to realize that Peter Smith is helpless to argue with me, because he is probably just another Jordan-is-the-MAN (who signs my check), Wizkids mouthpiece. I've already discredited the myth of Jordan-as-saint, and simultaneously made my point that Battletech is in imminent danger of being snuffed by Mage Tech. I also apologized for defeating him while emphasizing the point he had to concede.)
And THIS is where Warner jumped in, no doubt because of a plea from Peter Smith, probably something along the lines of "I can't prove this guy wrong! He's revealing Jordan for what he is, and undoing our massive propoganda campaign! He's telling people the TRUTH about our cheapo plastic! Do something! Help me out here!"
Warner's post after Peter Smith's loss:
D>"What's your point?"
What is point? That Jordan Weisman is not the Demon that you have been trying to make him out to be. Your attitude on this whole affair has been less then amicable. Some could almost make the case that you are being confrontational about the whole thing in my opinion.
D>"I tend to get aggravated when people try to put a halo behind Jordan Weisman. The man is a capitalist, not a philanthropist."
And I get aggravated when someone decides to come in and open their mouth and spew out such immature and inciteful junk as I've just read through. If you have so much as a problem on this put it to a PM or email. Don't poison the bandwidth with trash as you just did in trying to make an administrator look bad. All because he decides to try to explain to you on how you are wrong in your assumptions about a person instead of banning you for your lack of judgement. And then you turn around and post this bovine excrement in a reply? I don't think so. You may have an opinion, but your opinion does not allow you to treat people in this fashion under my watch.
And if you have a problem with what I am saying you take to email at admin@classicbattletech.com. Because if you so much as reply to this post in a manner to me as you did to Peter, then you put your posting privileges in peril. Your choice. But I will not put up with this from anyone on this message board JUST BECAUSE ITS YOUR OPINION. Because your opinion does not mean you can speak to people in the manner as you just did. And if that is a problem then invite you to go and do it elsewhere. Cause you'll not be allowed to do that here.
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Ok, and this is the part where I was severely rebuked...not because I had spoken "immature and inciteful junk", but because of my completely anti-Wizkids stance. I was actually quite reasonable in my communication with Peter Smith, not to mention being very succinct (despite being forced into an analogy which I had not chosen).
Note that Warner does not couch warnings like Peter Smith did, he comes right out and "Warn"s me (like a warner should) that I need to stop speaking my opinion.
And most recently, Warner's attempt to defend himself for his vicous attack:
In reply to:
Your post would have been removed. Yet it remains for all to see. But I didn't. Its there for everyone to see. The supression and oppression you and others are spreading about is not there. I believe any reasonable person what would take time to read all 40 of your posts would come to the same conclusion that Peter did when he decided to ban you. And its ironic that many people posting behind you were saying that you were doing the same thing elsewhere on the other boards too. So while you are standing there again pointing a finger at me and attempting to demonize me like you did in that very ugly and hateful email you sent me in reply, please present all the facts so everyone can see the whole truth.
You got it, Warner, ol' buddy ol' pal. And you shouldn't have told me to do that, because now you look silly.
Sure, you don't have to delete my posts. You just increase the number of "mouthpiece" posts, until mine gets buried. (The CBT message board is incredibly active.) As for not banning me yourself, hey, don't hide behind Smith. You know darnn well you advised him to ban me. Him or that immature punk Death Coyote. So don't try to act all "high and mighty" or get all pious on me.
And for that matter, what of it that I also post this message on other boards? I admit it, freely! I need to get the message out that people are going to be getting RIPPED OFF by Mage Tech, and that it is actively endangering the very existance of real Battletech! So, really, NO SUPRISE that there will be others who have seen my posts, and NO SURPRISE that others will have also disagreed with me....
So NO POINT for Warner, on that matter.
The matter remains, I was banned from the CBT Message forums. For my stance.
In reply to:
I can't answer that one. I didn't ban you and I said I would not. So if you want to air out the laundry I am sure that I can get Peter to make it very public too along with any other verifiable proof in emails and such to show what and why. But heh that's ok you and a few others have called us Facist with your rebuke so it really doesn't matter anymore now does it?
I'm calling your bluff, Warner, ol' buddy, ol' pal. Being as I HAD no private correspondance with Peter Smith, and the correspondence I had with your ALTER EGO I also have copies of (and will be happy to post, if anyone wants to see them) you're gonna come out looking like Clinton. So do me a favor, and post them, will ya, buddy?
Your attitude is despicable. You claim that I called you a facist, so now you claim the priviledge of being one?
You demand respect for yourself and your cadre that NONE of you has earned. I'll tell you what, I've had fights (real fights) with moderators on other boards, and they stood up and took it like men...they didn't try to hide behind alter egos. They gave back exactly what they got and made their points at the same time. I may not like them much but I darnn sure respect them.
They didn't try to hide behind bans.
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Durango
06/27/02 11:56 AM
65.212.106.131
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In reply to:
I wondered where you went. I hardly ever agreed with you, but you did raise some really good questions that needed to be addressed. I applaud you for your efforts, even if I rarely agreed with your point-of-view. You however did make me think and reappraise my points-of-view. Did not change them, but I did reappraise them and I continue to reappraise them.
Thank you, both for your kind words and your open minded point of view.
I have to say I admire that.
In reply to:
I did not know you got banned. I am sorry to hear that.
*shrug* It happens. There's plenty of other boards, it just means I have to redouble my efforts.
"Slit their throats as I bring 'em down, boy! There's WORK to be done!" -- Iunio the Centurion (Heinlein, "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel")
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Warner_Doles
06/27/02 12:41 PM
206.27.40.65
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In reply to:
I'm calling your bluff, Warner, ol' buddy, ol' pal. Being as I HAD no private correspondance with Peter Smith, and the correspondence I had with your ALTER EGO I also have copies of (and will be happy to post, if anyone wants to see them) you're gonna come out looking like Clinton. So do me a favor, and post them, will ya, buddy?
Your response is exactly as I expected from someone of your questionable ethics. Tell you what. I live in Burlington, NC, if you want to debate me live and in person I invite you to come to me and express yourself in the exact same manner as you did with that email you sent me that my daughter read to me over the phone. Of which I referenced in my post of which you site as I claim you and Peter had. I did not.
BTW, here is the PM that Peter sent you:In reply to:
Peter_Smith (BOFH)06/19/02 02:14 AM67.36.182.129 Re: Banned: Durango [re: DeathCoyote] Edit Reply
My PM to him is as follows: In reply to: Your actions on this board ever since your arrival here has been nothing but a string of policy violations. Specifically, rules 1, 2, 6, and 11, with numbers 2 and 6 being the most obvious. Your actions here paint you as a troll. Your posts here are almost always of a hostile nature. You also seem to have brought over much of the hostility you have from other sites.
Normally I would simply ask you to no longer participate here. However you have not earned that level of respect from me. As for the duration, I would expect it to be permanent. Should you prove yourself able to interact with the other members of this site, I might consider a request to remove the ban.
However, I would not count on it, as you seem to have ignored the other sections of this message board in favor of your own personal crusade to kill what amounts to a new idea. If it'll make you feel better, you can call me whatever you want on whichever message board still allows you to post there. Frankly, I've been called worse by people more important than some self-absorbed zealot.
So it would seem that HE did send you correspondence concerning your Banning since it is standard policy to inform everyone of their ban. You were saying?
In reply to:
They didn't try to hide behind bans.
You are a troll. You have done nothing but spout out hateful words at anyone that says they like the game. I have personally read all 40 of your posts on CBT and Peter was right in banning you because you are a Troll. And this isn't the only place you act like a child. You have done it on the other Message Boards too. But that's not the point.
You believe that you have the right to speak to anyone in a manner as you did to Peter or anyone else as I explained to you in my reply to your most vile and hateful email of which you followed up with another one that was just as bad, That if anyone I didn't care whom it was, spoke to someone like that I would take care of them. Yet you are too blind to see that is what I called YOU down for.
If it is a Moderator or another Administrator I do that in private. But I don't expect you to belive it son because you wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the face.
In reply to:
Your attitude is despicable. You claim that I called you a facist, so now you claim the priviledge of being one?
I find your demeanor and attitude ugly and I find you as two faced as they come just basing on the 40 posts and 2 emails I have seen from you. I have nothing to hide son. You are just too blind to see it. You called me a Fascist “Herr Doles” or has that’s slipped your memory too?
In reply to:
You demand respect for yourself and your cadre that NONE of you has earned. I'll tell you what, I've had fights (real fights) with moderators on other boards, and they stood up and took it like men...they didn't try to hide behind alter egos. They gave back exactly what they got and made their points at the same time. I may not like them much but I darnn sure respect them.
Don’t threaten me. You know absolutely nothing about me and what I am about. I don’t demand nothing. I could careless if you respect me or not. As I said in my reply to you, you have no influence in my life whatsoever. So you talking to talk. You are living in a make believe world in your posting here. But because you are a Troll you will never be allowed to post on CBT’s Msg board again. That is your doing not mine. I didn’t ban you. Peter did. Oh and He read the email you sent me as did Randall and they were both disgusted by your ugliness. And If you want, I do have a website of my own that has allot of traffic and I can put it up for all to see. That would be both of your emails headers and all including my reply to you.
Again, if you feel you want to further this discussion, you can visit me, of which I’ll bring you in my house, I’ll feed you and discuss with you about the wrongness of your opinion and we’ll go from there. And this time we can do it in front of my family since you so much enjoy doing things like this in public view. So are you man enough to face up to this? Heck, I’ll even give you my home phone number and put you on the speaker for phone. Are you man enough to take me up on it and find out just how wrong you actually are? Some how I actually doubt you can do even this. Your modus operandi is to go from msg board to msg board and spread your hate, attacking people and to twist things around to support your bantering and untruths. Balls in your court son. Make a play or admit you were wrong (if you can swallow your pride) and act like a reasonable adult and be accountable for your actions and be man about accepting your punishment for your actions.
As far as I concerned this conversation is done unless you want to continue this MY way so I can look into your eyes. I am not going to waste my friend Nic's bandwidth on this issue. Anything else from you I'll consider the source and I'll wipe my shoes off and leave you where you stand.
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Durango
06/27/02 04:35 PM
65.212.106.131
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In reply to:
>> For my efforts, I was most severely rebuked and consequently squeltched. (Read: Banned from CBT message boards.)
You make it sound like you were on some high moralistic campaign with that "for my efforts" bit, instead of just being a jackass and insulting a man whose done you no personal harm, and whose great crime seems to be in making a new game
No, I think you are trying to make it sound like that. My effort is to protest. (BTW, jackass...I like that. It's really original.)
In reply to:
(which is in addition to Battletech, not a replacement for).
If it is an addition to Battletech, they why call it Mechwarrior? If it is an addition, then why totally new rules? If it was an addition, then why can't I use my existing 'Mech collection? If it is an addition the existing Battletech, then where are the TRO's for the new Agri-mechs, Vehicles, etc, etc... If it is an addition, then why all the changes?
It isn't an addition. It's a new game. SINCE it is a new game, it really remains to be seen if it will cause the draining of players and funds from real Battletech, and thereby DIRECTLY cause the demise of Battletech ([u]replacing it[/u]). Apparently, you either don't believe that could happen, of you haven't actually thought about it. Obviously, it's one possible future. It remains to be seen. I have always held (and stated) that if MW: DA brings new blood to Battletech (unlikely but possible) that your point may be true. But I'm nowhere NEAR that naiive.
In reply to:
Sure he's a capitalist, not a philanthropist. But when has that been an insult (at least for us Americans)? That certainly doesn't mean he's activily out to kill CBT and rape your dog.
First, I honestly doubt that the man is into bestiality. (You might to be more careful about how you imply things...that sort of thing leads to lawsuits!) And second, I never said that calling someone a capitalist was an insult. I merely distinguished it from philanthropy.
Specifically, in the case of Jordan, many people have been exalting him because he "saved Battletech". I really don't see it this way. I see it more as, a person who was in the right place at the right time, with the correct amount of cash. Perfect planning? Opportunism? That's a matter for personal opinion, I'm sure, and the ony person who could really settle that is the person in question...and I'm sure that he has a vested opinion, and therefore can't really be counted on to be objective (or relied upon to avoid non-self-incrimination).
At any rate, such a person, who had been so fortunate, would have two options:
1. Shut down Battletech
2. Continue Battletech.
In Case Number One, which would be 100% ironclad his legal right, everyone loses. He gets bad publicity from every gamer who's ever played Battletech (and a few who may be just plain sympathetic to the "cause"), AND, he doesn't get any royalties from FanPro for the name he just bought.
But in Case Number Two, more people "win". FanPro can stay in business, and he makes MONEY. A nice side effect of Case Number Two is that more gamers would be mollified (pacified) and there would be LESS bad PR for Jordan. Also, Case Number Two require FAR less effort. How hard was it for him to draw up papers to get royalties from FanPro, as opposed to all the effort in Case Number One?
In reply to:
It most certainly doesn't mean he deserves "no recognition" for allowing the game to continue. I don't know how things are in your little fantasy world, but here in reality, when a business man wants to make a profit, we don't consider that a character flaw.
Well, if you truly endorse that philosophy, then perhaps you should have been working for Enron, or more recently, WorldCom. You'd have fit into their corporate culture fabulously. Say, your first name isn't Ken, is it? Profit at the cost of character, well I'd say that does fit.
I'll say it again. Jordan does not deserve deification for simply accepting royalties.
In reply to:
>> HOWEVER. When it comes to "Brand name recognition", or "customer loyalty", it just would make more sense to allow real Battletech to retain it's name. Changing the name was a bad idea.
My impression (and Warner can please correct me if I'm wrong) is that the name was changed back when MW: DA was still in the early stages and they were going to call it Battletech: . The "classic" was tagged onto the original to differenciate it. By the time Wizkids decided to use the Mechwarrior tag instead, the copyrights had been filled and promotional and source material had been printed, and it was just too late/costly to go back to not using the "classic" name.
So, then I was right. It WAS a bad idea. (If you don't know how you're going to procede, why change anything? If it'd make you feel beter, I'll change "bad idea" to "poor planning", then.)
In reply to:
>>But then, let's face it...Wizkids (and associated cronies) have been dead set on alienating the Battletech crowd from day one.
Why? By making a totally seperate game that we are under no obligation to play?
(I notice you didn't ask "How" but "Why"...this is a question I have asked already, and the answer is MONEY.) It's a totally separate game, yes. If you read my above inferrence on how it could replace Battletech, then I don't need to repeat that now. But in essense, the answer to your question is YES. It is a totally separate game. Different scale, different 'Mechs, different rules. If you ask why they made the different game several answers come to mind. The first one that comes to my mind is that they had a product they wanted to sell (cheap plastic & the name Battletech) and so they had to make a different game. The excuse they give is that they wanted to attract a younger crowd, and in order to do that they had to make the game simpler. Which I concede, as most youth today would rather play a mindless video game (dexterity) than use their brains in a game which requires tactics and actual THINKING. Not that they are incapable of it, more that they are too lazy.
But the question as implied was "Why do you say that Wizkids was attempting to alienate Battletech players when they created this totally separate game?"
The game was created to attract new blood into Battletech. Right? In order to facilitate that, they made up a new game SYSTEM, and then made new plastic playing pieces. Well, I submit that if this MWDA was in fact an addition, then the GAME COULD HAVE BEEN PLAYED WITH REAL BATTLETECH MINIS. "How," you may ask, "if this is a click-base game?" Simple. As amost all Btech minis require hex-bases, they could have made a tagged hexbase system. Each hexbase would have a complimentary click-BAR, which duplicates the functions of the giant dial click-bases.
In short, they could have made an add-on for Battletech (a GENIUNE "addition"), which would have made it easy for kids to play. But they didn't. Instead, they made up a whole new system. If you want to play, you have to aquire a whole new collection. And don't even get me started on what a rip-off scheme it is to sell them as "collectibles".
In reply to:
CBT is still going man, play it and don't worry about Mechwarrior Dark Age if it doesn't float your boat. But likewise, don't pretend that it's very existence is intended as a slap in your face.
I do consider it a slap in the face that I have to buy a whole new collection.
Ok, ok, you're right...we are "under no obligation" to play MWDA. We are perfectly free to continue playing our Battletech, re-hashing old storylines, re-fighting battles which we have already done, etc, etc. They have stopped our novels, remember? They said no new novels. That means, we are in re-runs indefinitely, until oblivion.
In short, "we are under no obligation to play" this new game until the timelines merge. But do you realize the implications of that sentence? You may say, "Well, the timelines won't merge for quite some time, so just keep playing CBT and don't worry about it until then." But I can't be that careless...I won't be.
Trying to solve this problem is like trying to take the square root of a negative number. There is, however, one constant. I will NOT be playing with dolls (Posable Plastic Action Figures). Therefore, I have to figure out just when to sell my collection.
My options are dump my collection now or dump it later. If I sell it now, then I'll get my money back out of it. But I won't be able to play Btech anymore. If I wait, it'll be as worthless as Enron stock.
In the meantime, I get to worry about how much money I wasted on a now non-supported system.
In reply to:
>>Totally changing the story
How praytell, do you know it was "changed"? Were you privy to the original you seem to think they trashed to come up with the DA story line? No, the story line just continued on, and you whine and complain because it's not going in a direction you like. Well get a clue, it's not the first time that's happened. Many hardcore oldtimers hated the introduction of the clans. St Ives players hated the results of Xin Shing. Learn to live with it, or just ignore it and make your own timeline, but stop whining about it, and certainly ditch the stupid martyr complex.
The worse part is that most of the complaints I've heard about the MW: DA story line seem to be based on misinterpretation of the facts or outright misinformation.
Ok, wait. I heard that they are going to shoot the line THREE GENERATIONS into the future. That in of itself is a major change. (When they kill off every major figure in every plot, that's a MAJOR CHANGE.) If the line "continued on" then we'd have had a GRADUAL transition from the Battletech novels to the new Fantasy Mage Tech novels.
Like I said, they have stopped our novels. Oh, and BTW, if I spent the time making up my OWN stories, then when would I find time to play?
And while we're on the topic, Clan introduction done in Z-SCALE, using BATTLETECH rules. This new game, in the new Fantasy Mage Tech Storyline, is a complete deviation from real Battletech.
I CAN'T keep playing real Battletech, at least not how I used to, because the darnn galaxy has ended.
In reply to:
>> making it so people have to throw out their existing collections and buy an all new collection
Uhoh! So the game police are going to be coming to my house and throwing out my mini collection any moment now!?!?! Oh dear, whatever shall I do? Does IWM know about this? I guess that means the game police will come to IWM and throw out all the minis they've been manufacturing since the game "died", eh? And the minis they'll keep on manufacturing too.
*sigh* This is a very tired melodramatic ploy. No, nobody is coming to my house and taking my minis. You know it, I know it, and EVERYBODY knows that Wizkids is not employing NINJAs. Your sarcasm and patronizing manner reveal that you are unwilling or unable to dispute my point. (I'm putting my money on the "unable" one.)
But if you want to play with JORDAN's rules, you will need JORDAN's BAT and JORDAN'S BALL. Unless you're willing to tell me (and you can prove) that IWM is going to start cranking out Lawnmower "Mechs"?
The new game makes my old minis obsolete. THEREFORE, I would have to buy an all new collection to play the new game, as would ANYONE who currently possesses a real Battletech collection. That's a MAJOR problem.
In reply to:
>> in short, making every effort to cast off what had been a very loyal constituency of players.
Oh yeah, I've seen Wizkids making very strong efforts to shut down Fanpros continuing support of the CBT line. Why just the other day, Jordan went and beat up Randall for having the audacity to plan new CBT products and even *gasp* hold competitions that let players have an effect on the game's canon.
So have I. Have you heard about the "blackout" that was demanded of IWM?
Letting players have cons is all very well, but how much of it is really going to have an impact? If there are no more novels, what good does it do to create more "canon"? Jordan "lets" FanPro to continue for one reason...the money.
In reply to:
>> we are also being suppressed or squeltched if we complain.
Correction, we are being squelched if we are immature, insulting jackasses
Then why haven't YOU been squelched yet?
BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT WIZKIDDIES.
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Durango
06/27/02 06:08 PM
65.212.106.131
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In reply to:
D>"I'm calling your bluff, Warner, ol' buddy, ol' pal. Being as I HAD no private correspondance with Peter Smith, and the correspondence I had with your ALTER EGO I also have copies of (and will be happy to post, if anyone wants to see them) you're gonna come out looking like Clinton. So do me a favor, and post them, will ya, buddy?"
Your response is exactly as I expected from someone of your questionable ethics.
My "questionable ethics"!? Why, what a holier-than-thou attitude!
In reply to:
Tell you what. I live in Burlington, NC, if you want to debate me live and in person I invite you to come to me and express yourself in the exact same manner as you did with that email you sent me that my daughter read to me over the phone. Of which I referenced in my post of which you site [sic] as I claim you and Peter had. I did not.
Why the invite, after you outright told me that you didn't want to know me? (Or was that your alter ego?) Is it because you really don't want to see me shove you in the mud again, in public? (Figuratively speaking, of course.)
...or is it because you were told by a higher authority to find a way to keep me from broadcasting my discontent about Overpriced Cheap Plastic, or Posable Plastic Action Figures (dollies)?
Oh, and by the way, before you paint me as a villain for things your daughter saw, I addressed the letter to you. (Or whoever it was that wrote to me on the other site.) If you act so irresponsibly as to have your daughter read your mail, (especially after you invite someone to flame you), then that's really not my fault. I would think as a father, you'd be more careful of your own kids.
Besides, if you recall, I apologized to your daughter for her father's mistake.
In reply to:
BTW, here is the PM that Peter sent you:
In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter_Smith (BOFH)06/19/02 02:14 AM67.36.182.129 Re: Banned: Durango [re: DeathCoyote] Edit Reply
My PM to him is as follows: In reply to: Your actions on this board ever since your arrival here has been nothing but a string of policy violations. Specifically, rules 1, 2, 6, and 11, with numbers 2 and 6 being the most obvious. Your actions here paint you as a troll. Your posts here are almost always of a hostile nature. You also seem to have brought over much of the hostility you have from other sites.
Normally I would simply ask you to no longer participate here. However you have not earned that level of respect from me. As for the duration, I would expect it to be permanent. Should you prove yourself able to interact with the other members of this site, I might consider a request to remove the ban.
However, I would not count on it, as you seem to have ignored the other sections of this message board in favor of your own personal crusade to kill what amounts to a new idea. If it'll make you feel better, you can call me whatever you want on whichever message board still allows you to post there. Frankly, I've been called worse by people more important than some self-absorbed zealot.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So it would seem that HE did send you correspondence concerning your Banning since it is standard policy to inform everyone of their ban. You were saying?
Ok, you're right. However, you used the word "correspond", which I did not. I never even got this message until today. (I don't often return to boards on which I've been banned, especially just so I can read parting shots like that one above.) I don't expect you to believe this, and I will simply concede the point, because you've already made it.
My accusation still stands, you were behind it. Were it simply Peter Smith, then I suppose I would simply say that if he can't accept an apology, then he's less the man for it.
In short, I don't give a darnn whether someone such as he respects me or not. He doesn't impress me, and banning me exercised the one tiny bit of power he had in my life...so now he and you are both irrelevant.
In reply to:
D> "They didn't try to hide behind bans."
You are a troll. You have done nothing but spout out hateful words at anyone that says they like the game. I have personally read all 40 of your posts on CBT and Peter was right in banning you because you are a Troll. And this isn't the only place you act like a child. You have done it on the other Message Boards too. But that's not the point.
You believe that you have the right to speak to anyone in a manner as you did to Peter or anyone else as I explained to you in my reply to your most vile and hateful email of which you followed up with another one that was just as bad, That if anyone I didn't care whom it was, spoke to someone like that I would take care of them. Yet you are too blind to see that is what I called YOU down for.
If it is a Moderator or another Administrator I do that in private. But I don't expect you to belive it son because you wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the face.
Fine, label me a Troll. It doesn't matter. I understand your need to persecute me. (1 Corint 4:12 "being persecuted, we suffer it", 2 Corin 12:10 "...I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions") because it's the only way you can discredit what I say.
Oh, and by the way, don't call me son. If it wasn't for that dog which beat me over the fence, I'd have been your poppa.
You first accused me of being rude to a moderator (I wasn't, the dialog clearly revealed that.) Now you change your charge to "Troll-ism".
Who's got questionable ethics, again? (Son?)
Oh, by the way, are you going to posts those letters or not?
In reply to:
D> "Your attitude is despicable. You claim that I called you a facist, so now you claim the priviledge of being one?"
I find your demeanor and attitude ugly and I find you as two faced as they come just basing on the 40 posts and 2 emails I have seen from you. I have nothing to hide son. You are just too blind to see it. You called me a Fascist 'Herr Doles' or has that slipped your memory too?
Perhaps you have me confused with someone else? Why don't you post those two e-mails and we'll look for the part where I said "Herr Doles".... I never even used the word "herr", or perhaps your daughter's reading was not very accurate...son.
I love that, "son" thing you've got going. You try to make yourself look older and wiser, instead of like a consipated old fool with a bad case of Baptist religion. But, it's getting old. Trite, even.
In reply to:
D> "You demand respect for yourself and your cadre that NONE of you has earned. I'll tell you what, I've had fights (real fights) with moderators on other boards, and they stood up and took it like men...they didn't try to hide behind alter egos. They gave back exactly what they got and made their points at the same time. I may not like them much but I darnn sure respect them."
Don’t threaten me.
Wups! Where was the threat? Let's be clear, because this is the second time you've hinted at physical violence...I'm not threatening ANYONE. When I said "real fights" I meant, "real geniune arguments, where no quarter was asked and none was given", not fisticuffs. I'm really not usually a violent kind of guy. When I said, "hiding behind alter egos" I meant that they didn't flame me in one spot and then come off like some over-pious offended moral right pastor in another.
In reply to:
You know absolutely nothing about me and what I am about. I don’t demand nothing. I could careless if you respect me or not. As I said in my reply to you, you have no influence in my life whatsoever. So you talking to talk. You are living in a make believe world in your posting here. But because you are a Troll you will never be allowed to post on CBT’s Msg board again. That is your doing not mine. I didn’t ban you. Peter did. Oh and He read the email you sent me as did Randall and they were both disgusted by your ugliness. And If you want, I do have a website of my own that has allot of traffic and I can put it up for all to see. That would be both of your emails headers and all including my reply to you.
I bet you'd love that, woudn't you? Post your one-sided condemnation of me, all the time making yourself look like you were the victim. Why don't you post those letters here, Warner?
Ooooh! They were both "disgusted by my ugliness", wow, now that hurt. Pfffffft. Hey, here's an idea. Why don't you let Mr. Bills tell me himself. You've got my address. Pass it on. If anyone has my respect, it's him. I understand that he was put in a bad position and is making the best of it, and I respect that.
Why don't you just come out and admit that the truth hurts? You know darnnwell that I was banned from CBT (your website) because I DARED defy you. You act like a petty man, Warner. You console yourself by telling yourself that it was for the greater good, but if it weren't for the fact that the CBT site was the "official" CBT site, nobody would go there, because they're all AFRAID of your straightjacket moderating tactics. Nazi-ish, wouldn't you say? (Sound familiar?)
I know why I was banned, it was because you couldn't STAND that someone had a differing opinion from yours. An opinion which brought a man you worship down to mortal status. An opinion which stated, flatly, that MWDA is a ripoff, which sells cheap plastic to kids, in a kind of legalized kiddie gambling scheme.
In reply to:
Again, if you feel you want to further this discussion, you can visit me, of which I’ll bring you in my house, I’ll feed you and discuss with you about the wrongness of your opinion and we’ll go from there. And this time we can do it in front of my family since you so much enjoy doing things like this in public view. So are you man enough to face up to this? Heck, I’ll even give you my home phone number and put you on the speaker for phone. Are you man enough to take me up on it and find out just how wrong you actually are? Some how I actually doubt you can do even this. Your modus operandi is to go from msg board to msg board and spread your hate, attacking people and to twist things around to support your bantering and untruths. Balls in your court son. Make a play or admit you were wrong (if you can swallow your pride) and act like a reasonable adult and be accountable for your actions and be man about accepting your punishment for your actions.
Let's take this from the top.
First, you won't be able to discuss the wrongness of my opinion, because I'm right. I'm not interested in listening to you blather on about your differing opinion, certainly not enough to travel clear to the Carolinas. (Though the offer for a meal is appreciated, thank you.)
Second, I don't enjoy dressing you down in public, I hate that I had to do it, and if you'd not flamed me to begin with, we wouldn't be on this long chain now. Need I remind you that it was YOU who told your daughter to read your hate mail? (With a subject line of "Temper tantrum", you didn't catch a clue?)
Third, why would I want (or need) to do this in private, when my whole goal is to spread the word about how bad Mage Tech is to the world?
Fourth, I'm not sure that you're in a position to preach to me about "being a man" when you actively participated in banning me, therefore making sure that you weren't revealed for the self-righteous censor you act like. Not exactly a "manly" thing to hide behind a ban. Also, having done so, you lord it over me, like you were exercising some sort of discipline. You are not in a position to exercise any such on me, you are not worthy of it. Therefore I refuse to see it as such.
Fifth, your modus operandi is to try to take the moral high ground, and use accusations of "trolling" (or other impropriety) to censor people, and keep them from posting their own opinions. If you think that being a "righteous (religious) man" holds any water in this day and age, I'd say "Wake up!". While certainly it isn't necessary to throw out the baby with the bathwater, most religious icons have long been discredited.
"Be a man about accepting punishment for your actions"...ha! You mean, "accept that I was the one in power and I banned you"? Did that, over it.
Warner. I don't care about your opinion of me. I told you that before, you don't scare me and you don't impress me. And if you think that I'm at all affected by your little Napoleon complex powerplay, then think again. Others have seen it in action, you have been revealed.
Why don't you just own up to being the petty dictator type?
In reply to:
As far as I concerned this conversation is done unless you want to continue this MY way so I can look into your eyes. I am not going to waste my friend Nic's bandwidth on this issue. Anything else from you I'll consider the source and I'll wipe my shoes off and leave you where you stand.
Oh, so I guess you didn't read this and won't be responding to it, eh?
We did things your way, you banned me. Now we'll do things SLAYER's way. If he sees fit to ban me, then I guess I'll move on. But you can bet your bottom dollar I won't be doing ANYTHING your way.
Anyway, how considerate of you to not impose upon your friend's NIC! What a thoughtful gesture! (As we all know, NIC's have a limited amount of traffic they can pass before they run out! Pffffft.) I'm certain that your gesture has a good heart behind it, and that it's not because you are losing horribly.
By the way, I didn't fail to notice that were attempting to bait me into saying something very nasty to you (in an obvious attempt to get this board's moderator to ban me). How transparent you are!
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MadWolf
06/27/02 06:09 PM
134.53.151.129
|
This post is getting rather violent lately, I jsut want to say to anyone who is so opposed to Wizkids owning BT, Don't buy into it. Its that simple. If wizkids finds there not getting money they'll either drop the game or sell it. For now, you have the rules, you have all your old source books, You have the capasity to write fanfiction. Make the BT future how you want. And for christ sake, if you dont feel like saying "Classic" infront of it, dont. Most people will understand you because the new magetch is under the title of Mechwarrior.  Its a fantasy/sci-fi game, so you can makeup different things if you wish.
Nothing is Impossible, It is only Improbable.
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MacLeod
06/27/02 06:32 PM
65.95.255.91
|
I totally agree with that. This whole thread has gone from everyone complaining about the C in CBT to Durango and Warner yelling and threatening each other.
Guys? Cut it out, it isn't cool. Both of you are really just ruining things. Warner, your "holier-than-thou" attitude is rather nausiating, and Durango's constant need to yell at everyone is just plain annoying. Will both of you just resolve it by any means necessary? Have a fight or a tournament or a duel with pistols at twenty paces, if necessary. Just don't do it in the forums.
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
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novakitty
06/27/02 06:35 PM
209.242.100.230
|
How do you respond to this observation?
meow
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Nightward
06/27/02 06:41 PM
210.50.61.4
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I have just been reading through the drivel below. This has gone from "we dont like the name" to "we hate Whiz Kidz (or however it is spelt), Warner Doles, MW: DA, and the family, pets, and furniture of anybody in any way connected to the above."
Errr?
To be blunt, *GET OVER IT*.
Yes, they could have done it differently. But they didn't. Why not? They want to make money. BattleTech was not making money as it was. So, they have invented a system that will make money. They made it to be seen as "cool" by its target audience which-simply put- *IS NOT US*. I do not know if they have ever explicitly stated it, but the way the websites are set up, and they way everything looks is that they will be aiming the game at young, teenage males. It will probably be a craze, like Pokemon.
OK, what they have done to the storyline is not what we wanted, but are we in a position to change it? No. So what are you doing? Frothing at the mouth and whining. Ah, yes. Of course. How eminently sensible.
Whiz Kidz does not care. We are not their target audience. They can't hear us. (Mental image of WK marketer in his office with his hands of his ears, singing "lalalalalalalala...I can't hear you")
On the other hand, we have "Classic" BattleTech. Our game. So it's not ideal. In four years, our universe ends. Bugger.
But there is a lot of gaps in BT history. The Star League. The Exodus. Properly presented, that stuff could be great.
Or who knows? Perhaps FanPro will declare MW: DA to be n alternate time line and it will be business as usual.
No amount of bitching will change things. Just wait and see.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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MacLeod
06/27/02 06:42 PM
65.95.255.91
|
Uhh... dude? Two things:
1) calm down
2) Nic is SLAYER's real name.
I totally understand your point of view, share your opinions on the way Warner is acting, but I also believe that you've gotten a bit out of hand. You can freely share your opinions, after all that's the point of a forum, but you don't need to be so... well... antagonizing about it. Warner's in the wrong for his attitude and everything else you brought up, but you're in the wrong because you're dropping down to Warner's level. You're letting him get to you, dude. That's his plan - to rile you up, get you to break the rules, and then have you banned. Just calm down and ignore the guy, and then you won't blow up in his face and get baned.
If you can't do that, then just email the guy some more and rant at him there - at least then you will be outside the jurisdiction of sarna.net's forum rules.
Of course, he could always call the cops...
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
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MacLeod
06/27/02 06:45 PM
65.95.255.91
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Amen, dude. Everyone just needs to calm down and just exploit all of the gaps in BattleTech's history. Replay the Exodus, or Kerensky taking Terra back from Amaris. Even better, play the first appearance of a BattleMech (the Mackie) in combat. Now that would be fun.
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
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ErichRaulfestone
06/27/02 09:02 PM
164.76.107.192
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Guys, this game was us to have fun, not whine like little kids at not getting at what we WANT. So I ask you all,
is it worth all the bitching and moaning that some of you are dong?? NO. And you know it, but you do it anyway. But
that is your problem. We have 2 Btech universes now, take it or leave it.....
Erich Raulfestone
Rangers, Lead the Way!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
Isaiah 6:8
......and I went......
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Greyslayer
06/28/02 01:15 AM
63.12.141.190
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Well put.
This issue seriously is not a sarna issue. This isn't the board it used to be, but rather a more open and calmer one than in the past. We don't want (I think I speak for a great volume of members to this 'discussion' forum) the level of one-sided censorship that exists on other boards, nor do we want heated discussion between people on other boards over this.
Durango :- Get over it. You were banned so bring your discussions here without degenerating into a slagging match (initially I was impressed by your arguments but after that you went down to the gutter level).
Greyslayer
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Cheapbuzz
06/28/02 03:05 AM
132.15.225.211
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Looks like I've created a monster.
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Cheapbuzz
06/28/02 03:08 AM
132.15.225.211
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It's not like you can't just log on there with a different name.
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Bob_Richter
06/28/02 03:41 AM
4.35.174.250
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To me, the term always meant Battletech, the way it was before FASA really started screwing it up.
No Clans.
No TR2750 tech.
Just 'Mechs and Kings and immortal human struggle.
Oh yeah.
That's Classic Battletech.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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novakitty
06/28/02 06:06 AM
209.242.100.230
|
No, I was just bored and curious.
meow
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Durango
06/28/02 09:57 AM
65.212.106.131
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C> "Looks like I've created a monster."
No, you didn't create a monster. The monster was already there. You simply pulled the cover off of one (or two).
Slayer:
The slagging match with Warner will now cease. (At least on my side.)
Can I respond to Zippy?
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Khan_Robinette
06/28/02 12:39 PM
216.24.85.5
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I agree, I feel like I have been watching two kids fight.
Kid 1: Mommy he changed the name of my game.
Kid 2: Did not! Daddy told me to change the name, so I changed the name.
Kid 1: Well I am going to write out everthing I saw you do and tell mommy.
Kid 2: Well here are the formal notarized emails, writs of transcript, and my daddy's green card saying I can do this.
Kid 1: Blah, well you suck.
Kid 2: You suck
Kid 1: Mommy!! He's calling me CLASSIC names!
Kid 2: You started it.
Am I right or am I right.
Grow up, act like the adults you would like to pretend you are. OLD BATTLETECH, CLASSIC BATTLETECH, THE BATTLETECH will be around as long as some one has the minatures, the books, and the spirit to play it.
Let the newbies play Clicktech, then take the chance to show them Realtech.
Jeez, grow up, I have seen more civility between my 3 year old and his 8 year old cousin.
"Teach me and I'll teach you
If you need a hand I'll give you two
Respect me and I'll respect you
Disrespect me and I will destroy you"
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Khan_Robinette
06/28/02 12:41 PM
216.24.85.5
|
So to sum it up....
Kid 1: Mommy he changed the name of my game.
Kid 2: Did not! Daddy told me to change the name, so I changed the name.
Kid 1: Well I am going to write out everthing I saw you do and tell mommy.
Kid 2: Well here are the formal notarized emails, writs of transcript, and my daddy's green card saying I can do this.
Kid 1: Blah, well you suck.
Kid 2: You suck
Kid 1: Mommy!! He's calling me CLASSIC names!
Kid 2: You started it.
Am I right or am I right.
Grow up, act like the adults you would like to pretend you are. OLD BATTLETECH, CLASSIC BATTLETECH, THE BATTLETECH will be around as long as some one has the minatures, the books, and the spirit to play it.
Let the newbies play Clicktech, then take the chance to show them Realtech.
Jeez, grow up, I have seen more civility between my 3 year old and his 8 year old cousin.
"Teach me and I'll teach you
If you need a hand I'll give you two
Respect me and I'll respect you
Disrespect me and I will destroy you"
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Durango
06/28/02 01:14 PM
65.212.106.131
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Whoa...dejavu.
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Khan_Robinette
06/29/02 03:19 PM
216.24.84.189
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I guess I could have posted 2 cows...
deja-moo
"Teach me and I'll teach you
If you need a hand I'll give you two
Respect me and I'll respect you
Disrespect me and I will destroy you"
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Chas
07/01/02 05:03 PM
66.187.6.78
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Forgive me for not getting into this sooner.
I've been taking care of my grandparents for a few days here.
What happens if MW:DA crashes.
If it crashes, it crashes. But, it could have repercussions on the entire line of products based in the BattleTech universe. We can hope it doesn't. But it may.
Face it, CBT was dealing with an ever-shrinking fanbase. While you may not LIKE MW:DA, it DOES provide a gateway into the more advanced CBT community for younger players, or those looking to at least start off with a less complicated game.
As to why FASA sold off its properties?
The company was operating on a money-losing basis. But, the sale of the IP it still possessed allowed them to close down gracefully, instead of going into bankruptcy and having the IP sold off to god-knows-who.
And, in the case of BT, the property went to someone with a vested personal interest in the game. Not to someone who was going to simply rewrite the game into the d20 system and leave it.
Wizkids is giving us a totally different game, and telling us it's Battletech.
No. They're giving you a different, but related, game based in the same universe. They've also licensed the original game off to another company who will be continuing the original product line.
If you don't want to play MW:DA, DON'T . Continue to play CBT. The only difference is the company logo decorating the covers.
Now, is it me, or is this guy taking a "So stop arguing with me, or else" stance, here? To me, he was sounding like HE was getting a little aggressive.
It's you. He's merely giving you points to consider, and telling you to actually think on them before you begin spewing vitriol.
First, when the rights were bought may be moot, as it was, FASA was all but a rotting corpse. At the very least, one could say they were emaciated from all the lawsuits, and in a weakened condition. The vultures were circling.
And what would you rather have had? A company who's owner has a vested interest in continuing the product? Not only as it was originally, but to introduce new forms of the game to appeal to those outside of the traditional genre of fans?
Would you rather have had "One Guy's Publishing" snap it up on auction, turn the system to d20, and play THAT?
As for licencing FanPro to "allow" continued production of product, I would like to point out...that was not altruism.
On a certain level, it is. Remember what I said about shrinking fanbase in CBT? Speak to anybody who was working for FASA before the closure.
They could have simply bought the game, come out with the ClickBase BattleTech and called it "BattleTech" and let it go at that.
But no. WK chose, actively, to maintain a fanbase that they KNEW was shrinking.
Was capitalism involved? Sure. Will they make money either way? Sure. But it's a damn sight better than no BattleTech at all. So a little gratitude (everything in moderation) is not entirely out of order here. Simply shugging it off as "crass capitalism and nothing else" falls quite far from the truth.
It is HE, not ME, who begins to become derisive. "I hate to break it to you [implied 'you idiot, and you don't know what you're talking about']..." In fact, I do. Your problem, Peter Smith, is that you can't argue my point. THUS the banning.
Actually, you really don't know what you're talking about. You know a few peripheral factoids about a fairly complex situation. Sorry to be that blunt. But would you prefer I blow smoke up your ass and tell you that you're right?
As to not arguing your point(s). Of course he can't. Because your points are based on assumptions and emotional response rather than fact. You can't argue against either of them. Simply because there's nothing credible to argue against.
As to your banning, it was because you were being fairly uncivil to people in a position of authority who were trying to reason with you as best they could.
You need to adjust your viewpoint. It's not benevolence. It's avarice. Crystal. Clear.
Avarice?
Avarice: extreme greed for material wealth
You've never met Jordan Weismann have you? While, YES, he does have a desire to be wealthy, he'd much rather be DOING things with that wealth than sitting back and letting it accumulate idly. This is one of the reasons he didn't retire from FASA, FASA Interactive, etc. Because he wants to work. Because he wants to keep going with this business.
The man has more money than you or I will ever probably see (barring a lottery win). However, you don't see him sitting on his ass, merely collecting dividends do you?
Is he a saint? No. NO. And HELL NO.
Is he some money-grubbing, make-a-quick-buck shyster, as you obviously think he is?
No. NO. And HELL NO.
Try coming to Origins or GenCon. Actually talk with the man. Get to know him a little bit. Then tell me he just did it "for the money".
because he is probably just another Jordan-is-the-MAN (who signs my check), Wizkids mouthpiece.
AH. Onto personal attacks now. Bravo!
Let's get this straight. Peter Smith has contributed material, time, and effort into the development of CBT. Has he been compensated for his work? Yes. Is he being compensated for modding CBT's message boards? NO.
Would he continue to push CBT if he didn't actually believe in the product, or the people backing it? NO.
Now, before you begin telling me that "I" am an apologist as well, let's let you in on a little something.
First: I'm the host for CBT (and Sarna for that matter). Second: I shell out beaucoup cash to keep the server that powers both sites connected to the internet and on a fat feed.
Third: I know, and have spent quite a bit of time talking to most of the principles involved in CBT and MW:DA.
Fourth: I receive NO monetary renumeration from either WK or FP for the hosting of the CBT site. And the sites DO require fairly heavy-duty hardware to power them, and cost a BIG chunk of change in bandwidth charges. Which I eat.
Why? Because I believe in the game. And I believe in the community.
As I have known Peter for quite a few years now, I can tell you that the only reason he continues to work with BattleTech is because he too believes in the community. Any compensation he receives outside of that is secondary.
I've already discredited the myth of Jordan-as-saint
What myth? Jordan isn't a saint. However, he deserves at least a small modicum of respect for helping develop the game we all play, and another small modicum for allowing it to continue (whatever his reasons).
Nobody's saying you have to fall down on your face and lick his boots. In fact, we'd worry about you if you did. Simply give the man the little respect he is due.
And THIS is where Warner jumped in, no doubt because of a plea from Peter Smith, probably something along the lines of "I can't prove this guy wrong! He's revealing Jordan for what he is, and undoing our massive propoganda campaign! He's telling people the TRUTH about our cheapo plastic! Do something! Help me out here!"
Massive propaganda campaign? Excuse me whilst I go off and guffaw myself to death.
He can't prove you wrong? There's nothing to prove. Your arguments lead nowhere and you're merely slandering someone. It's not like there's anything you're saying that needs actual discussion.
You just increase the number of "mouthpiece" posts, until mine gets buried.
Now who's propagandizing. Yes. It's all a humongous conspiracy to rob you of your right to say waht you want. Regardless of factual basis. Regardless of actual content.
Break out the tin hats.
As for not banning me yourself, hey, don't hide behind Smith. You know darnn well you advised him to ban me. Him or that immature punk Death Coyote. So don't try to act all "high and mighty" or get all pious on me.
BZZT! Wrong answer bunkie. Warner tends to leave all decisions to the moderators. He's too busy building the site (for which he is not monetarily renumerated either) to deal with moderation issues. He stepped back from taking an active hand on the board for all but actual attacks on the board itself.
Accusing someone (especially Warner) of conspiring to ban you doesn't fly.
And for that matter, what of it that I also post this message on other boards?
If all you're doing is trolling and flaming, it's definitely a concern. That sort of activity isn't wanted on the CBT board. And since THEY are providing you with the access to the board, THEY (not you) decide appropriate levels of conduct. And THEY (not you) decide wether or not you should access the board.
I need to get the message out that people are going to be getting RIPPED OFF by Mage Tech, and that it is actively endangering the very existance of real Battletech!
That's very big of you. But we've been hearing about your "message" for over a year now. We don't need to hear it anymore. Or do you go around to message boards screaming "SOMEONE FLEW PLANES INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTERS!" too?
Also, seeing as you know very little about MW:DA, and haven't even played the game, you're not exactly a very well-informed messenger.
The matter remains, I was banned from the CBT Message forums. For my stance.
Not for your stance. For your conduct and your attitude.
I'm calling your bluff, Warner, ol' buddy, ol' pal. Being as I HAD no private correspondance with Peter Smith, and the correspondence I had with your ALTER EGO I also have copies of (and will be happy to post, if anyone wants to see them) you're gonna come out looking like Clinton. So do me a favor, and post them, will ya, buddy?
Ah. More groundless accusations.
And now Warner's using dummy accounts to shut you up too?
Your attitude is despicable. You claim that I called you a facist, so now you claim the priviledge of being one?
Actually, it's your attitude and conduct that's despicable.
And as to him being a fascist.
1: He runs the CBT domain, without pay. On his own time, and using his own money for development.
2: He allows you to access the site without paying a cent. He gives you access to the content. He even allowed you to participate in the community boards. You abused the last privilege. So it was taken away from you, after being warned that your conduct was unacceptable and in violation of standards that have been imposed upon him by FP and WK. And you were warned REPEATEDLY.
But HE is a facist?
Hmm.
You demand respect for yourself and your cadre that NONE of you has earned.
When did it become YOUR decision wether or not they "earned" respect? Clue (it never was).
Wether or not they DESERVE respect is irrelevant anyhow.
They're the ones in the position of authority. If you want to be a jackass to them, you shouldn't be surprised when your access to something goes byebye.
Also, if you want respect yourself, you need to give a little too. But you've forgotten this.
It's really easy to be brave and brazenly outspoken from a couple thousand miles away, and behind a computer screen.
They gave back exactly what they got and made their points at the same time. I may not like them much but I darnn sure respect them.
CBT isn't "another board". And nobody cares about the flame-fests you were able to suck other forum mods into.
They didn't try to hide behind bans.
If anyone's hiding behind your ban, it's you.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
MacLeod
07/01/02 06:50 PM
65.93.149.32
|
They're posable? Hey... that really makes it tempting...
I'll just get me folks to get me some for Christmas. It keeps me from having to waste my money...
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
|
Greyslayer
07/01/02 06:57 PM
63.12.147.64
|
So why pray-tell do you want to continue the flame-war?
Several of us told him to get over his banning then a couple of 'lurkers' who do not post come on a couple days after the last post and open it up again. Is it a 'troll'? Is it 'ganging' up after the point? I do not really care, this argument was dead please leave it that way.
Greyslayer
|
MacLeod
07/01/02 07:03 PM
65.93.149.32
|
You've made some good points here, Chas. I agree with you on most of it. Durango, man, you're getting a bit, hmm, paranoid about your getting banned from CBT and about MW:DA. Sure, Jordan does this for the money, but that's a driving force behind 99.9% of people in the buisiness world. He just happened to develop a way to make money that he liked, and that other people liked. Would you blame the guy that makes Saturday morning cartoons for wanting to keep those going?
Okay, maybe Saturday morning cartoons are a bad example, but I think it might help get Chas' and Warner's points across. I understand what they're saying, but hey, I'm not really gonna take sides here. You have your opinions, and Chas here has his, and he has facts, and you don't. You can keep your opinions, Durango. You can protest MW:DA until your face turns mauve and your eyes bug out. Nobody will stop you. I don't care if you protest. I agree that MW:DA probably isn't the greatest thing for BattleTech's future. But you don't see me locking horns with the head honchos of CBT's official site, do you?
And don't go calling me another supporter of Jordan. I've never even met the guy, I don't know what he looks like, and I don't particularly care. I'm only a teenager. Yeah, scary, ain't it. But still, I love CBT, and don't want to see it die. Let them release MW:DA. Protest it, have marches, speeches, whatever.
You only cross the line if you blatantly attack people. And that's what you did. That is the unacceptable thing, man. Not your opinion, but how you chose to express your opinion.
"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." - Dennis Miller
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
|
MacLeod
07/01/02 07:04 PM
65.93.149.32
|
Good point, dude.
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
|
Greyslayer
07/01/02 07:11 PM
63.12.147.64
|
Don't call me dude
Greyslayer
|
PeterSmith
07/01/02 07:11 PM
4.17.223.29
|
Nice post Chas. But you are in error with one part:
"Let's get this straight. Peter Smith has contributed material, time, and effort into the development of CBT. Has he been compensated for his work? Yes."
The only compensation I've had is an early look at some of the new products. I have received neither product nor money. Just like everybody else working on the game, I'm doing this first for the love of the game.
And if you think I'm blowing smoke, take a look at Bryan Nystul. Wrote material for the game for a bunch of years, ended up as the Line Developer for (I think) about five years. However, after going to Origins, he had a bit of a revelation. He no longer loved the game he put years of effort into. With that he turned to his friend and co-worker, Randall Bills, and his boss, L. Ross Babcock, and told them that it was over. And he did that because he knew that if he continued, and just went through the motions of working on the game, that it would be a mistake. And instead of making that mistake, he quietly withdrew from the game he loved.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
|
MacLeod
07/01/02 07:14 PM
65.93.149.32
|
Hey, I had a principal once and he yelled that at a friend of mine.
You should have seen the old guy, he yelled it at the top of his lungs and his face resembled a raspberry...
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
|
PeterSmith
07/01/02 07:42 PM
4.17.223.29
|
"when did Battletech and anything related to it become a family game?"
It's been that way for a while now. Head over to Europe and check out what famlies play. Where we in America will break out Monopoly and The Game of Life, it's not surprising to see games like 40k and BTech played.
If it works over there, why not see if it'll work over here?
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
|
MacLeod
07/01/02 07:47 PM
65.95.255.225
|
You mean they have little kiddies playing as Chaos Marines?
Kinky...
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
|
Karagin
07/01/02 08:56 PM
63.173.170.204
|
Hey...don't you know who you are talking to? Thoses that tossed in their 10 cents of comments are the elite of CBT.
You should be happy they even lowered themselves to talk to the common fan.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Greyslayer
07/01/02 09:01 PM
63.12.147.64
|
I probably would say the same to any other lurker coming in at this stage ... elite or not.
Lets get back to talking about things important to this board not to another one.
Greyslayer
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Karagin
07/01/02 09:03 PM
63.173.170.204
|
I agree, but it seems the three of them don't...oh well...so do you feel that the IS would every copy heavy lasers?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
07/01/02 09:05 PM
63.173.170.204
|
Yawn...and I feel sorry that no one can have a negative opinion on this whole MWDA thing with someone attacking them for expressing their views...oh well guess some have to be right...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
07/01/02 09:06 PM
63.173.170.204
|
Nice opinion...and I feel sorry that no one can have a negative opinion on this whole MWDA thing with someone attacking them for expressing their views...oh well I guess some feel that their opinions are the word of LAW and thus should be always believed...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Greyslayer
07/01/02 09:06 PM
63.12.147.64
|
I'll answer this in another thread if you'll ask it. This one isn't for that kind of question
Greyslayer
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Karagin
07/01/02 09:07 PM
63.173.170.204
|
If you say so, I forgot who I am talking to around here at times...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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PeterSmith
07/02/02 12:10 AM
4.17.223.29
|
Ahh. Just so I'm crystal clear about anything I say to you, you'll automatically assume that I'm intentionally misleading people when I post here.
For everybody else who is reading this, there is a convention in Germany every year called Essen. Reports from people who have attended it are that the convention sees roughly eight times the number of people than GenCon sees over the same period of time. Part of that is because games like BattleTech have a much more diverse audience than they do over here.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
|
Karagin
07/02/02 12:18 AM
63.173.170.47
|
And I can see you missed the point...BT is a wargame, thus in THIS COUNTRY, that is NOT a family game.
While Dad and Junior might play it, Mom and Sis aren't likely.
But again as I said you know more then anyone on this topic thus your OPINION is going to be correct and everyone elses is going to be WRONG. Or is that not the case?
And I do like how you and someothers have to hide behind the invisibleilty feature...are you afraid of being seen on here or something?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
07/02/02 02:03 AM
63.173.170.71
|
What rage?
I am having a lot of fun laught at this MWDA stuff...I don't see a silver linning and based on WHAT I DO SEE, more folks are TICKED OFF over the course that Jordan has taken.
But no one wants to see that part or even understand it...none of you who are so quick to tell those who don't like it they are wrong seem to care WHY we find it wrong or WHY we dislike it and yet those that don't like are lumped into the group who wants to destory the game...right okay so much for folks LISTEN and UNDERSTAND each other...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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MacLeod
07/02/02 02:29 AM
65.95.255.225
|
I think you have a definite point here. Nobody is really looking at why people don't like MWDA. Maybe there is no silver lining, and maybe there is. You're right, more people are pissed about what Jordan did than there are people that aren't. However, I don't really fall in either category, but I fall in both. I am pissed about MWDA, and think it's a bad idea, because it warps what could have been a great future for BattleTech, and because it looks rather rediculous. But, Jordan did what he did so:
1) He could make money (yes, Durango is right here)
and
2) So that BattleTech could continue in some form instead of stopping totally when FASA started pushing up the dasies.
I don't know the guy, and I probably will never meet him, but I can tell that he at least has some form of concern over the future of BattleTech. Wether that is for how people like it or how much $$ it brings in, I don't know.
What I'm trying to say here (like I've said all along) is that it really doesn't matter whether you like it or not. If you don't like it, you aren't wrong, because that is an opinion.
To quote the great movie High Fidelity (this is going to have a point):
Barry: Come on, Rob, lemme play what's next.
Rob: Barry, just tell me.
Barry: Come on, man.
Rob: Just tell me.
Barry: (Giggles) Little Latin Lupe Lu.
Dick: Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels?
Barry: (shouts) NO!!! The Righteous Brothers!!
Dick: Oh... never mind...
Barry: No, YOU never mind! What's wrong with the Righteous Brothers?!!?!?!?!
Dick: Nothing... I... just prefer the other version.
Barry: BOVINE FERTILIZER (yes, he said something else here, but I censored it so I won't get banned)!!!!!
Rob: How can it be bovine fertilizer to state an opinion?
Barry: When it's the wrong opinion. Jeez, Rob, since when did this record shop become a fascist regime?
Rob: Since you brought in that bovine fertilizer tape!!!
Okay, if you missed my point there, it was that all this anger and hatred is coming out because of the advent of MWDA (LIttle Latin Lupe Lu, by the Righteous Brothers). Dick represents one version of people, the ones that support (or at least kind of like) MWDA (okay, it wasn't his tape, but he's the best kind of person here). Barry (obviously) represents Durango and the people that hate MWDA and yell and scream about it. Then, when Rob (the people in the middle) tells Barry to calm down, Barry goes on about the fascist regime thing (hey, Durango and Warner, does that sound familiar?).
Everyone needs to calm down about it. Warner and everyone on his side need to stop with the holier-than-thou attitude. Everyone on Durango's side need to stop attacking Warner's people. Don't take offense if you don't like which person your opinions match with, I'm only using them because they're the ones having the blood feud here.
I want to applaud Zippy, Kahn Robinette, Sherrif Bart, Greyslayer, Nightward, ErichRaulfestone, and MadWolf for trying to calm this madness here. Guys, it may not have worked, but you tried. Those guys really went out on a limb here - they showed that they could at least stand the MWDA thing, or at least ignore it, and they showed their opinions in a place where they could get yelled at.
Just everybody calm down here. It isn't everything major.
If it is, well, there's always another alternate universe.
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
|
Khan_Robinette
07/02/02 09:18 AM
216.24.92.31
|
Yep...calm down...
My personal opinion is....
Each to his own, if you don't like MW:DA...fine! If you like prepainted action figures fine.
Jezus, to think that we live in a land where everyone is supposed to be free to express his or her own opinions yet they get knocked down or beat up every time either side opens it's collective mouth.
If you do not want to play MW:DA and I don't, Play with your own old mechs and let the people who do want to play exercise their freedom to chose.
If you do not like the way the storyline is going use your imagination and take the story line whichever way you want to go. It is obvious by some of the posts here that many off you have some iota of imagination and can maybe spin teh Btech universe off on whatever tangent you want.
Kill the clans, keep the clans, fight a long civil war, unite the sphere for a beer, who gives a frik.
I mean the basic game takes imagination, how many battlemechs do you see walking around everyday?
Ok rant over, even though a lot did not make sense I feel better now.
"Teach me and I'll teach you
If you need a hand I'll give you two
Respect me and I'll respect you
Disrespect me and I will destroy you"
|
Khan_Robinette
07/02/02 09:22 AM
216.24.92.31
|
If they did copy them would they have the same damage profile of standard Clan Er lasers give or take a few points o damage?
"Teach me and I'll teach you
If you need a hand I'll give you two
Respect me and I'll respect you
Disrespect me and I will destroy you"
|
ErichRaulfestone
07/02/02 10:17 AM
164.76.107.171
|
For everyone: Put it simply, If you dont like what you see or hear and have nothing good to say....SHUT UP!!!!!!!
sheesh, Grow up, it A GAME for crying out loud. Just think of all the energy your spending defending your
position, you could be um... GAMING, yeah thats the ticket....
Erich Raulfestone
Rangers, Lead the Way!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
Isaiah 6:8
......and I went......
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Karagin
07/02/02 10:23 AM
63.173.170.120
|
This what I am talking about you are telling the folks who are expressing their thoughts as to WHY they don't like it to shut up, what does that do?
It pisses them off and thus we have flame wars. Is it so hard for TPTB and their buddies to get the hint that a good majority of the BT fans DON'T LIKE the current direction they (TPTB) have taken the game?
Telling one side to shut up showing a big bias. IF you are going to one side then it needs to apply to both.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ErichRaulfestone
07/02/02 10:27 AM
164.76.107.171
|
Excuse me LOUDMOUTH,what were the first two words in my other posting"FOR EVERYONE" it is applied FOR ALL.......thank you
Erich Raulfestone
Rangers, Lead the Way!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
Isaiah 6:8
......and I went......
Edited by ErichRaulfestone (07/02/02 10:29 AM)
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Karagin
07/02/02 10:34 AM
63.173.170.120
|
Excuse me read rules 2 and 3.
And my point still stands via your posting and I quote:
In reply to:
If you dont like what you see or hear and have nothing good to say....SHUT UP!!!!!!!
Seems you aimed this at one group...or prehaps you need to clear it up some so as to include both side yes/no?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
ErichRaulfestone
07/02/02 10:38 AM
164.76.107.171
|
Good, you learn...ill see ya all ltr
Erich Raulfestone
Rangers, Lead the Way!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
Isaiah 6:8
......and I went......
|
Chas
07/02/02 05:32 PM
66.187.3.124
|
Yes Karagin.
You're completely right Karagin.
Now get down and kiss my boots slave!
Is that pretty much what you expect to hear?
Face it. There are individuals in positions of authority. You just don't happen to be one of them. Get over it.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Chas
07/02/02 05:34 PM
66.187.3.124
|
Karagin, you need to read what was said. Stop simply reacting to it please.
Nobody said you cannot have a negative opinion. Merely that we're sick of hearing that opinion reiterated over, and over, and over, and over........
If you don't like it, fine. Great. Wonderful. Now move on.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Chas
07/02/02 05:49 PM
66.187.3.124
|
Oh. We KNOW why people don't like MW:DA.
1: Their current CBT collection doesn't translate.
2: It's in a collectible format. Most people who are into collecting minis for CBT like the fact that they can pick up whatever forces they want at fixed prices.
3: The game itself doesn't have the depth and breadth that CBT does.
4: From what little they know about the story arc for MW:DA, they've decided they don't like the direction the plot-lines for MW:DA are going in.
Stop me if I'm wrong
A few things they conveniently ignore.
1: MW:DA is a separate game, with separate counters, and rules for a reason. The target audience for MW:DA aren't as likely to buy, assemble, and dress minis. And where is it written that everything BT-related has to be targetted at the same market segment?
2: If they don't like collectible games, don't play. Simple. CBT still exists and new product (both minis and source books) will be coming out.
3: Again. MW:DA isn't aimed at the same market segment (the one that was constantly shrinking on FASA) as CBT is. MW:DA is a gateway game for CBT. There are those who'll stick with MW:DA because they prefer it's simplicity (Think of it as Level 0.5). But others, as their tastes refine, will be encouraged to move on to games like CBT.
4: As I said. They know a little about MW:DA's back-story. And that's about it. If they decide they hate it now, oh well. I'd rather wait for actual product before I decide that, but hey. It takes all kinds.
Everyone needs to calm down about it. Warner and everyone on his side need to stop with the holier-than-thou attitude.
You're mistaking frustration at having to deal with the same people voicing the same opinions for the past 12-18 months for an attitude. It's not.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Acolyte
07/02/02 06:43 PM
142.179.27.248
|
Hey! Are they coming out with a sourcebook? That'd be great! I see no reason why people couldn't play in the MW:DA universe with the old rules, and from what I've heard I kinda like the universe as described. The history would have to be re-writen (I think it's pretty silly) but the universe is fine, faction wise. Maybe I'll just take the factions and plunk it into 3025. That level of technology falling would be appropriate.
You did miss one of the major problems, though. They changed the scale such that you cannot use the new mini's in the old game. They made them just a little too big. Also, I have trouble fitting more than 4 maps together in my basement(and I don't think I'm alone in this), limiting my battles to a max of 2 companies on 2 companies (yep, crowded). Now, they make less complicated rules so that you can fesably have larger battles, then up the scale so that you can't. DOH! Why didn't they shrink them?
Second, you got one of your points a little wrong. You said that people want to collect mini's a a fixed price. Nope. They want to know what they are buying before laying down the money. I will pay more for a Marader. I would have payed more for any of they unseen if FASA had decided to give HG a licencing fee (don't know if they ever had the option, though). This is the major reason I don't play magic or mageknight, and will not be spending money on the figs for MW:DA.
I will, however, buy a sourcebook. I'll pay the full price for one if I can use it in my games. Last I heard, Jorden didn't like the amount of reading that new players had to do to become familliar with the BT universe and therefore was not planning to make a sourcebook. DOH!
If I'm wrong, great.
Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
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MacLeod
07/02/02 06:58 PM
65.93.149.19
|
A sourcebook for MWDA does sound cool. At least, they could issue conversion rules between MWDA and CBT, so we 'old-timers' could use any of the cool designs of MWDA (if any). I actually think MWDA would be a good roleplaying time, with the fallen level of technology and the overall greater feudal aspect among the factions. If a MWDA RPG came out, I would take a look at that.
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
|
PeterSmith
07/02/02 07:18 PM
4.17.223.29
|
"A sourcebook for MWDA does sound cool."
A sourcebook released by WizKids, or a FanPro project?
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
|
Lance_Hawkins
07/02/02 07:29 PM
129.240.68.4
|
In reply to:
Is it so hard for TPTB and their buddies to get the hint that a good majority of the BT fans DON'T LIKE the current direction they (TPTB) have taken the game?
Why should they take notice of what some loudmouthed whiners are complaining about?
They are in it for their own enjoyment as well. You can never please everyone. Just because some people whine louder than others doens't mean they should be obeyed or be allowed to dictate the direction of the universe.
There are plenty who *like* the way it's going. The diretion and development of the universe is not done by popular vote. It's done by a select few people who are hired on by the owners of the license who have full faith in them and that what they are doing are the right thing for the lincense.
Sorry you disagree, but the kind of insults you have been throwing at people like Bryan Nystul is it a big surprise noone who has anything to do with the development of Btech consider your oppinion worth a damn? They are all friends of his. People like you are why he said "[censored] it, I don't need to take this crap anymore for doing something I like" and left FASA.
Talk about digging your own grave.
Øystein
Freelance artist for FanPro and WizKids, but not speaking on their behalves.
I have seen the best of men go past, I do not want to be the last.
|
PeterSmith
07/02/02 07:31 PM
4.17.223.29
|
"And I can see you missed the point...BT is a wargame, thus in THIS COUNTRY, that is NOT a family game."
Your initial question did not make mention of borders. So I answered it. Sorry if it didn't agree with you.
"While Dad and Junior might play it, Mom and Sis aren't likely."
Is there anything inherently wrong with seeing if that could be changed?
"And I do like how you and someothers have to hide behind the invisibleilty feature...are you afraid of being seen on here or something?"
Never payed attention to that switch before. Thanks for pointing it out.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
|
MacLeod
07/02/02 07:51 PM
65.93.149.19
|
Hmmm... Well, MWDA is a WizKids product, so it most likely would be released by them...
But it would turn out the best if FanPro made it, since they're continuing with all the other CBT stuff...
I'd be happy as long as the pictures were cool, the designs were decent, and it worked compatibly with the RPG and CBT.
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
|
PeterSmith
07/02/02 07:57 PM
4.17.223.29
|
Well, there's nothing that I can think of that would stop FanPro from doing such a book when they advance to the point in the story that WizKids is starting at. However, I doubt that will happen for a while, plenty of material that can be covered before then.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
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Karagin
07/02/02 11:48 PM
63.173.170.174
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Funny, if you listen to all the comments comming for TPTB and their spoke persons, CBT and MWDA ARE ONE GAME.
And it seems what the fans of BT, the ones who have stuck with the game NO MATTER WHAT are being ignored, sure we got a bone tossed to us...but other then that it's like we are no longer there...if we mattered then would not our opinions on MWDA mean something both good and bad?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
07/02/02 11:50 PM
63.173.170.174
|
Insult? No not insults, just the comments based on how he acted and commented. If you don't like me bringing up his mistakes then please stop thinking of him as a god...he made them live with it.
The only grave that was dug was by the poor market moves made by folks at FASA...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
07/02/02 11:52 PM
63.173.170.174
|
I will get over it when they stop thinking they are the GODS of this game, which they are not...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
07/02/02 11:56 PM
63.173.170.174
|
Nothing wrong with it being changed, in fact it would be nice to see something that would benifit from that kind of group interaction.
BUT, I don't see a game where you have 3 story tall robots armed with more firepower then a tank battalion doing battle as a family game. Maybe you do.
I know folks who consider RISK and such games as NON-Family games. And then there are the odd balls who find UNO to be a non-family game...
While BT might bring Dad and junior together, where's the appeal for Mom and Sis?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
07/03/02 12:01 AM
63.173.170.174
|
Ok...now can the other side of this topic do the same??
Both sides need to step back and let things fall as they will...and each side NEEDS to respect each other, so far that HASN'T happen very much since some want to wear their egos and feelings on their sleeves and then get mad if someone disagrees with them. It happens on both sides.
Here is an idea, we have a month tell MWDA comes out, how about we give the whole thing a break and then ONCE it's out, all is fair game?
This way we get rid of a lot of the negative feelings and all can start fresh on why they like it and why they don't.
Plus both sides can maybe in the time between now and then actually learn how to talk to each other...yes I know we have been trying that for over a year on this topic...crazy idea I know, but hey it might work...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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PeterSmith
07/03/02 12:16 AM
4.17.223.29
|
"Funny, if you listen to all the comments comming for TPTB and their spoke persons, CBT and MWDA ARE ONE GAME."
Odd. Our message has been Classic BattleTech and MechWarrior: Dark Ages are the same timeline/universe. Nobody said they were the same game.
(get past the messanger and look at the message that follows Karagin)
"And it seems what the fans of BT, the ones who have stuck with the game NO MATTER WHAT are being ignored"
How does it seem that way? Seriously, I want to know why you think it is.
"sure we got a bone tossed to us"
The entire game is continuing. That's a rather large bone.
"if we mattered then would not our opinions on MWDA mean something both good and bad?"
Well, what did you do to get the message to WizKids? Did you scream at the top of your lungs on a soapbox in a message board, or did you get in touch with WizKids' playtesting group? Strangely enough, from the people I heard who dropped them an e-mail, asking to playtest, I don't remember hearing anybody get turned down. And these were various regular players, asking on IRC or different message boards.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
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Karagin
07/03/02 12:26 AM
63.173.170.174
|
How does it seem we are being ignored...
Let's see a lot of have stated on the offical message boards, that we don't like the MWDA timeline or the direction of said time line, we have spoken up and said that we don't like the collectiable buy a box of mechs and NOT know what you are getting idea.
We have repeatedly expressed our dislike over the whole MWDA idea. And most have really expressed how they don't like the idea of BT ever merging with MWDA. That part alone has a lot of folks in an up roar.
And has anything been said or done to lay these fears to rest? If there has, please post the URL or the emails or what not. Cause so far there has been nothing said about BT once the timelines merge...
You say they are not the same game, but what happens when the timeline of BT hits the MWDA start point? That is what all of us who don't care for MWDA want to know.
Actually yes, I sent an email and I got told all would be answered in good time, that was back when all of this was comming out as far as things go...like when the Forestry Mech was put up...
So far we the BT fans have seen this so called wonderful future for MWDA...which is great if you want to play Mage Knights in outer space, but what about BT?
The point I am getting at is we are left hanging...can you shows that we are not?
Please don't try to turn this around, it's now up to you to prove that the two are not one game and BT will be here with new products and support no matter what happens with MWDA.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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PeterSmith
07/03/02 01:34 AM
4.17.223.29
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"Let's see a lot of have stated on the offical message boards, that we don't like the MWDA timeline or the direction of said time line, we have spoken up and said that we don't like the collectiable buy a box of mechs and NOT know what you are getting idea."
Well, if you're talking about ClassicBattleTech.com, you're talking in the wrong place. You'll notice how the MWDA board is near the bottom of the list. That's because the site's not intended to be a WizKids site. It's a FanPro site. We're about Classic BattleTech. As far as I know, the only two people from WizKids who participate on the site are Kelly Bonilla (testing coordinator) and Dave Chase (volunteer coordinator).
The timeline issues are a matter of game direction. People will like what is going to happen to their characters, other people are not going to like it. This happened with the 4th Succession War, with the 20-year Update, with the invasion of the Clans, with the Capellan Solution, with the rebirth of the Star League, with the death of the Smoke Jaguars, etc... However, the difference between what is going to happen with the MWDA timeline and those events I already listed is we only have glimpses, flashes really, of what is going on between the end of the FedCom Civil War and the start of the Dark Ages era. If the Clan Invasion was written the same way, with the War of 3039 being one anchor, and the outcome of the Truce being the other one, with only Phalen's capture and Kai's blowing of the canyon, I would bet people would have reacted the same way.
We know the anchors. We don't know everything that's happened between them. That's because, for the most part, it's still being written. This is a major undertaking, it's going to take the work of two seperate game companies (FanPro and WizKids) to fill in those years. But the intention *is* to fill those years.
As for the CMG aspect of the game, there really isn't anything we can do about it. Secondary markets are an option. Since I have not looked at how WizKids handles the secondary market for their other two games, I cannot speculate how it will end up being for MWDA.
"We have repeatedly expressed our dislike over the whole MWDA idea. And most have really expressed how they don't like the idea of BT ever merging with MWDA. That part alone has a lot of folks in an up roar."
Well, if by merging you mean that Classic BattleTech will reach 3135 (or whatever the years Dark Ages will start from) and continue along with the storyline established, that's the plan as I understand it. The issue at hand, from our (FanPro) perspective, is how far away we want to make that bridge. With all of the ideas running around for new product, both published and online, we could write material for years and still not reach that point. And with Iron Winds Minis behind us, producing new minis as well as continuing to cast the existing designs, it's an even brighter future.
"And has anything been said or done to lay these fears to rest?"
Yes, actually. My willingness to have this discussion, to address your issues, should be proof of the fact that we are listening.
"Cause so far there has been nothing said about BT once the timelines merge"
I think I made mention of this above, but I'll reiterate it here. The reason nothing has been said is because nothing has been decided yet. We could speculate, however, people might take that as holy writ and cause another uproar if it turns out differently. So we simply do not answer the questions that we cannot answer.
"Actually yes, I sent an email and I got told all would be answered in good time, that was back when all of this was comming out as far as things go...like when the Forestry Mech was put up"
If you mean when WizKids posted the image back on or about 10 October 2001, I think the reason nobody got in touch with you was they had transfered the testing coordination between people, rather suddenly (and not to Kelly at this point). It seemed a good number of those e-mails got lost. I know mine did, I had to re-send a few weeks later. However, if you're talking about the image from 24 April 2002, you were too late. The final ruleset had come back from testing already, the Special Effects were going through final tweaking, as were the designs.
"So far we the BT fans have seen this so called wonderful future for MWDA...which is great if you want to play Mage Knights in outer space, but what about BT?"
First off, if you think of this game as "Mage Knights in outer space", you'll find that the games are seperate enough that you're doing a disservice to both. MWDA requires more thinking than a MK game. However, don't take my word on it. If you're up in Milwaukee for GenCon, head over to the WizKids area and play a game or two. That way you get to see how the game goes without having to buy anything.
As for Classic BattleTech, there's plenty of life left in this game. Even if we didn't advance the storyline past 3067, there still are dozens of books that could be written. The "MechWarrior's Guide To" series, while not pure BattleTech, would include enough material about things not yet written about for games. Or how about web-published scenario packs for historical events in BattleTech? Kerensky's Liberation and Operation Klondike pop right into my head. Or we could start poking around the Periphery more. How about pivotal battles of the previous three Succession Wars?
"it's now up to you to prove that the two are not one game and BT will be here with new products and support no matter what happens with MWDA."
Unfortunately, I cannot say with authority that the continuation of Classic BattleTech is completely independent of MWDA. If Dark Ages completely tanks, and I do not think that it will, it's quite possible that Classic BattleTech could go with it.
So here's my challenge to you. Instead of rehashing old arguements that really haven't changed (even with the release of new information), why not just post about Classic BattleTech. Like the Heavy Laser thread. If other people want to play MWDA, let them. But if you don't want to, then just leave them be.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
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PeterSmith
07/03/02 01:44 AM
4.17.223.29
|
"While BT might bring Dad and junior together, where's the appeal for Mom and Sis?"
The simple fact of doing something together as a family.
Not everybody family will have a son who is into playing "army" and a daughter who will play "house". Of the four serious relationships I've had, I've had one "traditional" girlfriend. One of them wrestled in high school and lead a Venture Post (high-adventure Scouting), one was seriously into going down to the range and putting holes in paper, and one was a rather decent laser tag player.
However, it's not always that extreme. I know of plenty of famlies that will try almost anything once or twice just to do something new with the family. Even if we picked up one family in a hundred (not unlikely), or even one in five hundred, we would see an increase in numbers.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
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novakitty
07/03/02 01:50 AM
209.242.100.230
|
RPGs are not classically a female hobby in the US, neither are wargames. Yet classical definitions are nearly meaningless. I know many girls who like AD&D. Battletech is easier to learn and has more customization as to its complexity.
Beware generalizations. If each exception to a generalization was a hampster, Africa would be buried to a depth of over 10 feet in rodents.
meow
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MacLeod
07/03/02 01:52 AM
65.93.149.147
|
hehehehehehehe...
you said "hamster".....
hehehehehehehehehehe.....    
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
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Karagin
07/03/02 01:59 AM
63.173.170.146
|
Thank you for posting things without any "ego" points. I think we have seen enought of that to last a long time.
To me using the comming of the Clans as a counter point to the MWDA thing is not a good one, since hints where always there that the SLDF was out there some where, the Dragoons, the M-Tribe etc...all gave a hope and a hint that Kerensky was alive and waiting...
The 20 Year Update was a decent book, it quickly and easily brought things up todate and left enough info for folks to see what was going on and the avenue of doing what they wanted, ie moving forward or not was there.
To many that doesn't seem to be the case for MWDA, main do to the two games having a different rules for combat, mechs of one aren't able to be used in the other etc...
Maybe these things will change maybe they won't, but if we don't comment now then later is a little late.
I would love to see a lot of the older stuff covered...that is why I am big supporter of revamping the house books and bringing them current.
Your challenge...I have been trying to do that...and while I do post a good 90% of BT things, I feel that by expressing my opinion on MWDA and supporting those that share my view point it can be shown that not everyone is happy and the reason why. Now I don't agree with everyone on what is the right way to go or not go, but I do agree that MWDA isn't it.
But seeing how we are back to spinning circles in the dirt over this, I can see your point as well.
The main point here or at least my main point is while most of are tired of the complaints, a lot of us are tried of the "MWDA rules" crowd and their comments as well.
So best thing is for both sides to take a time out and get better set to deal with things.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
07/03/02 02:04 AM
63.173.170.146
|
There are always expections to the norm...
Main stream American familes or at least what I have seen are not fully into the family thing...sure they can do the day at the beach or what not, but interaction is not something that seems to be a key point. This comes from seeing famlies in both small towns and three different medium to big cities in two states. Granted a small population, but when you mom or dad more worried about what Buffy is doing and not what Junior is up to you can see that family is not an important front runner...
Hey if MWDA brings the whole family together once a week then more power to it...it can't hurt.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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novakitty
07/03/02 11:32 AM
209.242.100.230
|
But this would be the perfect thing to help with dysfunctional families.
Annoyed at your brother? What would be more enjoyable than incinerating his little mech followed up with a quick game of "blast the escape pod?"
Just think, this could allow a troubled family to redirect their murderous rage while learning more about each other in the process.
meow
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Khan_Robinette
07/03/02 01:43 PM
216.24.92.31
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Clan Wolverine heavy bombing Industries: We put the Fun into Dysfunctional!
"Teach me and I'll teach you
If you need a hand I'll give you two
Respect me and I'll respect you
Disrespect me and I will destroy you"
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ErichRaulfestone
07/03/02 03:10 PM
207.72.5.38
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This goes for EVERYONE: No matter how long a person has played or how many minis they own, they will NEVER be the GOD of Btech. Why,
because each has his/her own definition as to what that means. So life goes on....
Erich Raulfestone
Rangers, Lead the Way!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
Isaiah 6:8
......and I went......
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Durango
07/03/02 04:55 PM
65.212.106.131
|
Chas:
Ok, I typed up a long response to your letter. I responded to each point, in turn.
Then I deleted it. It was too long, and it was merely rehashing each point. I have already presented my case, and really, when I examined my new response, the only reason I responded with such a long post was for the purpose of getting in the last word. So I start over.
That's the problem with message boards, nobody wants to think that the other guy got in the last word. It leads to looooong posts which, really, nobody really wants to read and people end up scanning them, instead...the only people who read them are the stubborn SOB's who feel that they have the most to lose.
When people don't read, important parts are lost. This leads to people getting more aggressive trying to reiterate a point they already said, because the person they are talking to didn't catch thier point the first time. They feel that they haven't been listened to, much less understood.
For instance. You give JW far more credit than I do, for a different reason. Your viewpoint is not far from mine, you say, sure, he's no saint but it would be nice to show a little appreciation. After all, he very well could have let Btech just die. Can you believe I read what you said, regarding this point? I understand your viewpoint.
My entire stance was very simple. It stems from the fact that I don't feel that way. I've already explained why...and I wasn't saying that he should be damned to hell for it, I was merely saying that those who would deify him are mislead. I refuse to feel appreciation for an effort which was it's own reward. He's getting paid.
You said that if JW hadn't picked up the rights, Btech could have been picked up by some third-party entity (WOC, anyone?) which would have turned it into a d20 system and let it fade.
You think this would have been a worse fate. I agree, that the death of Battletech would be a terrible thing.
[u]If[/u] you think that FanPro's efforts to revive Battletech will take off, it's easy to see MWDA as a good thing. After all, the premise is to attract younger players, who will "graduate" to real Battletech when they get tired of MWDA.
I don't see how this will actually work. After all, when MWDA players invest large sums of cash (whether their own or their parents) in N-scale, what is the motivation to go out and invest another large sum in a completely different game, in a completely different scale? That's a piece I'm missing.
Can anyone tell me why a person would do that? A reasonable cause?
At any rate, if indeed the lifespan of Battletech is coming to an end, if it's destined to die, then there isn't anything anyone can do about it. If that's truly the case, far better to let it die a dignified death...whether purchased by some third-party and allowed to die or simply left to fade away. Far beter to die a dignified death than to have someone parody you as a kiddie game.
[rant]
Posable Action Figures, done in cheap plastic is what I'm talking about...it's a satirical farce. Why not put the game into the He-Man Universe and all "factions" can be against Skeletor? Or, if you must stick with the collectible scheme, then shift it to the Poke-mon Universe.
[/rant]
On the other hand, if all it needs is some encouragement, then I fail to see how drawing people away from it to another game entirely can help it. That would seem to have the reverse effect. In this way lies the extinction of Battletech. The target audience is not Battletech players, though certainly the marketing is being sprayed at them, too. Some of them have stated they'd try it, maybe even plunk down some hard-earned dough on OCPC(tm). Others would only play if someone else footed the bill, and some are just plain offended and vehemently opposed. (Like myself, for instance...opposed on principle.)
But if the target audience is the yet-to-discover-real-Battletech crowd, pre-empted from Battletech (diverted, if you will), how does this help Battletech? If many who played Battletech have seen the writing on the wall and simply dumped their Battletech collections, how does this help Battletech? If Battletech players switch away from Battletech to another system, simply because it was made available, how does this help Battletech?
I'm missing these pieces, too. So apparently, you're right...I don't know everything. Perhaps you inform me what it was I missed?
From where I'm sitting, MWDA is not good for Battletech at all...and banking on future generations to switch is folly...the logic just isn't there. I'm simply not buying into that propoganda. Further, I think that JW knows that, and he's counting on it.
It's true that I don't know his motiviations. I've never met the man. But not having met him, I can be a little more objective. Not having met him, I'm capable of seeing him without rose-coloured glasses. In my skewed viewpoint, he would not be entirely unhappy to see Battletech eliminated...after all, it's not "his" Battletech, it's some mutated form of a game he once thought was his. This new MWDA is his attempt to put the game back to his original vision. If Battletech dies, eh, so what...it wasn't his game. Not exactly a compelling reason to be fair, now is it?
Oh, and one other question...who the heck are you? Because you talk like someone who's on the inside.
Also, so the rest of you know, no, I'm not Karagin. But I like the way he thinks. Sorry, Karagin, I'm sure my endorsement won't help you at all. But keep up the good fight!
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PeterSmith
07/03/02 05:35 PM
4.17.223.29
|
"To me using the comming of the Clans as a counter point to the MWDA thing is not a good one, since hints where always there that the SLDF was out there some where, the Dragoons, the M-Tribe etc...all gave a hope and a hint that Kerensky was alive and waiting..."
Yeah, there was some foreshadowning. However, there was also a good amount of hindsight. Bits and pieces of the story that, by themselves, meant nothing at the time but good story. After the shroud was lifted, so to speak, everything made sense. And it wouldn't surprise me that some parts of the Clan story was written to take into account pre-existing material, things that weren't necessarially written to be part of further development.
For all we know, that's the case with MWDA.
"I would love to see a lot of the older stuff covered...that is why I am big supporter of revamping the house books and bringing them current."
Well, with the inconsistancies in the different House Books, I really don't see them being redone. Espically with the House Archive Team's work. However, I would imagine something along the lines of the "MechWarrior's Guide to" books would be more appropriate.
But yeah. I want to see some of the major holes in the history patched up.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
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Karagin
07/03/02 06:21 PM
63.173.170.139
|
Personally MW3 RPG is a load bunk...I don't use it nor does my group.
The House books had errors sure, WHAT PRODUCT of FASA's didn't? With that being true, it didn't stop them from doing more TROs etc...
Patching up things is great, writting them off cause you don't like the errors is wrong.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
07/03/02 06:27 PM
63.173.170.139
|
Thanks.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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PeterSmith
07/04/02 12:05 AM
4.17.223.29
|
"Personally MW3 RPG is a load bunk...I don't use it nor does my group."
It's also the current RPG ruleset. It'll be the one supported.
"The House books had errors sure, WHAT PRODUCT of FASA's didn't?"
A continuity editor would have been extremely useful, espically early on.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
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Karagin
07/04/02 12:22 AM
63.173.170.7
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In reply to:
It's also the current RPG ruleset. It'll be the one supported.
MW3 RPG is another case of FASA not listening to the majority of the fans...whether or not it's the offical one doesn't matter to me since I won't be using it or any of it's products.
In reply to:
A continuity editor would have been extremely useful, espically early on.
I agree with you here...so maybe like NOW would be a good time to get one...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Durango
07/10/02 02:24 PM
65.212.106.131
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I actually like the MW3 RPG book, it's kind of complicated to read at first but then...learning Btech was pretty intricate at first too....
Did you really give it a shot?
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PeterSmith
07/10/02 06:04 PM
4.17.223.29
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MechWarrior 3rd Edition? Oh, I love it. Frankly, 1st and 2nd editions were just pilot factories. 3rd moves away from straight BTech integration, towards more of a stand-alone game.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
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Bob_Richter
07/10/02 10:49 PM
4.35.174.250
|
>>>Frankly, 1st and 2nd editions were just pilot factories.<<<
1st and 2nd editions were ROLEPLAYING GAMES, every bit as much as 3rd edition is.
They had better Battletech integration, 'tis true, but I hardly see where that is a bad thing in The Battletech Roleplaying Game.
But that's your opinion, and, as wrong as it is, you're still entitled to it.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Greyslayer
07/11/02 03:41 AM
63.12.148.2
|
I agree with you Bob.
Why call something "mechwarrior" if it deals with everything but? Mechwarrior 1 and 2 were true to the name, I hardly see why #3 deserves the same right as the other two obviously closer to the name versions.
Greyslayer
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Warner_Doles
07/11/02 08:52 AM
206.27.40.65
|
1st and 2nd editions were ROLEPLAYING GAMES, every bit as much as 3rd edition is.
They had better Battletech integration, 'tis true, but I hardly see where that is a bad thing in The Battletech Roleplaying Game
Sorry Bob to disagree with you. As I have been Role-Playing now for over 25 years and I have found both MW1 and MW2 lacking in detail. MW3 has far more detail in my personal opinion to satisfy my needs as a Role-Player and as a GM. I find MW3 as a Role-Playing system as good as 'Twilght 2000', 'Traveller', Gamma World, Mercenary, Spies & Private Eyes' just to mention a few.
But that's your opinion, and, as wrong as it is, you're still entitled to it.
Correct its his opinion, just like you are expressing your opinion. Pray tell how do you prove to him and I our opinions are wrong? Just because you say so? I would then counter with, "Get some time in life in Role-Playing before you tell me my opinion is wrong!" Anyway, we all have our opinions. They are neither write or wrong because they are based on our personal preferences. And I believe when MechWarrior 3 Companion comes out we'll have a better gaming system too.
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Durango
07/11/02 05:31 PM
65.212.106.131
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Bleh.
I hate to be put in the position of agreeing with Warner on anything.
But MW3 is better, and MW2 and MW1 were severely lacking in flavor or substance. (And that's 24 years of RPG talking.)
Now, if you will excuse, me I need to go rinse my mouth out. Feels like someone took a swing through it with a manure rake.
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PeterSmith
07/11/02 06:27 PM
4.17.223.29
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"Why call something "mechwarrior" if it deals with everything but?"
The game still includes MechWarriors. They're just no longer the focus of the RPG.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
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Warner_Doles
07/11/02 08:59 PM
206.27.48.9
|
If you cannot reply in a mature, respect and adult manner without your inciteful and inflamatory remarks:In reply to:
Now, if you will excuse, me I need to go rinse my mouth out. Feels like someone took a swing through it with a manure rake.
Then do not reply to any of my posts. Thank you.
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Cheapbuzz
07/12/02 09:26 AM
165.76.24.136
|
So was this said in a mature and respectful manner?????
"You are a troll. You have done nothing but spout out hateful words at anyone that says they like the game. I have personally read all 40 of your posts on CBT and Peter was right in banning you because you are a Troll."
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Warner_Doles
07/12/02 05:18 PM
206.27.48.9
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Nope it wasn't. He pissed me off. I didn't catch myself in time. I screwed up and let my emotions get the better of me. No excuses. I am man enough to own up to my mistakes. For stating that to him I do apologize. No matter what I should never had spouted off like that. I was wrong.
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