MadWolf
12/02/02 07:26 PM
134.53.144.37
|
The Fourth sucession war was a point of refrence. The clans did invade after the fourth sucession war, Granted it was 20 years, But 20 years on the battletech time line isn't all that much. Meelee was used much because the weapons were staring to wear out and become more scarece. They worked with what they had. And yes Meelee comabt is extreemly lethal. But it risks your own mech and you have to be right next to the mech you want to meelee with. They did make the axeman, and at the time it was effective. Then the clans invaded. things HAD to change. People had a refresh of weapons tech and figured out that if an axeman was comming, just stay away from right next to it. A mech with any sort of range whould just engage it from afar. Stay out of the swinging arc and it cant unleash its primary weapon.  An uller with a gauss rifle can pick at a axeman at great distance then move in with the kill of the medium lasers and the axeman could never get a swing in. I've done such a thing before. Another thing aginst meelee weapons is that they are only as effective as the weight of the mech. a 20 tonner with a hatchet is kinda silly. and a 100 tonner with a hatchet is scary at first untill you realize that they are so slow that they can not really use it effectively. I may have failed BThistory 101, But i know tactics well enough that if i had a axe and the other guy has a gun, I loose........ 
Nothing is Impossible, It is only Improbable.
|
MadWolf
12/02/02 07:31 PM
134.53.144.37
|
I have a feeling that there will ba another flame war, and people will come here and see how much our UBB board looks like a arguement held buy six year olds. Every body, just keep some sense that were are mature people here, ok?? 
Nothing is Impossible, It is only Improbable.
|
Toastrider
12/03/02 12:05 AM
172.165.241.34
|
Bob, Bob, Bob.
I hope nobody's filed a complaint with Nic yet. It'd be a shame for you to abruptly vanish for acting like that.
MadWolf, you do need to go back and reread your timelines. Incidentially, the Gauss is not a Clan innovation; the 2750-era Highlander and King Crab had Gauss rifles, just to name two.
The only thing I learned from the Fourth Succession War was that pissing off Hanse Davion was a REALLY BAD IDEA  Now there was a guy who could carry a grudge like nobody's business 
Jury's still out on MWDA. I just... I cringe at the storyline leading up to it (reminiscent of Bob Budiansky's writing on the old Transformers comic, first run). I am not fond of the Clix system either; it strikes me as a rewired version of the CCG with pre-painted Mechs. I miss seeing about a hundred different kinds of Mechs alone, to be honest.
--Toasty
"The survivors, not the victors, write the history books."
|
Nightward
12/03/02 01:19 AM
210.50.61.250
|
What the hell is wrong with you two? How many times do you have to air the same tired old personal grievances here?
I think it might be best if you pair simply didn't respond to each other's posts.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
|
Karagin
12/03/02 02:27 AM
68.21.149.65
|
You know I have asked him do just that...not to read or reply to my post...but I guess he is not goingto listen to reason. Maybe you should PM and tell him how tired you are of this crap...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Vapor
12/03/02 02:53 AM
202.128.71.85
|
If that IS, in fact, Wizkid's goal in putting out MWDA, why are they taking so long to put out anything else? They jumped all over MWDA, why haven't I seen any strides towards anything else?
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
|
Vapor
12/03/02 02:57 AM
202.128.71.85
|
I still have my box set. Not physically with me, it's in storage (for which I kick myself several times a day), but I've still got it.
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
|
Vapor
12/03/02 03:02 AM
202.128.71.85
|
My memory of the start of the Fourth Succession War is a little clouded. Who was Hanse Davion mad at? I was under the impression that all the planets he invaded were to be a wedding gift to his bride. The invasion did kick off on his wedding day, right? And things just snowballed from there, as situations tend to do in the BT universe.
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
|
Bob_Richter
12/03/02 04:15 AM
4.35.174.250
|
>>>How many times do you have to air the same tired old personal grievances here? <<<
How many times do I have to tell you that I have no standing grievance against Karagin?
>>>I think it might be best if you pair simply didn't respond to each other's posts. <<<
I will not be censored.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Bob_Richter
12/03/02 04:22 AM
4.35.174.250
|
>>>The clans did invade after the fourth sucession war, Granted it was 20 years, But 20 years on the battletech time line isn't all that much.<<<
In the Third Succession War, you'd be right. Afterwards, you'd be quite wrong.
>>>Meelee was used much because the weapons were staring to wear out and become more scarece.<<<
Nope. Noone knows quite why they put a Hatchet on the Hatchetman (as it thus became known,) but the results are a matter of historical record. The success of the design led to the creation of the Axman.
>>>They did make the axeman, and at the time it was effective. Then the clans invaded. things HAD to change.<<<
Wrong again. The Axman's record against the Clans was every bit as impressive as the Hatchetman's record against the Kuritans. This is also a matter of historical record. The success of the Axman led to divers designs, including the Berserker.
>>>I may have failed BThistory 101,<<<
And you did. Don't forget it.
>>>But i know tactics well enough that if i had a axe and the other guy has a gun, I loose........ <<<
What's that Weird Al song?
"Everything you know is wrong" or something like that.
You can only pick a hatcheter apart at range if
1) The map is completely flat.
2) Your opponent is an idiot.
3) You ALWAYS win the initiative.
I've seen Hatchetmen, Axmen, Berserkers (and things far MORE potent in melees) all use their weapons effectively in combat against those desperately trying to avoid that result.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Bob_Richter
12/03/02 04:24 AM
4.35.174.250
|
Hanse Davion was (or so the story goes) persuing a grudge against Mad Max Liao.
His practical achievement in 4SW was, however, to connect the two halves of the new Federated Commonwealth.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Bob_Richter
12/03/02 04:25 AM
4.35.174.250
|
WizKids isn't producing Classic Battletech, FanPro is.
A number of products (somewhat greater than 1, I believe) have already been released.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Bob_Richter
12/03/02 04:27 AM
4.35.174.250
|
Whatever, Karagin.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Vapor
12/03/02 04:33 AM
202.128.71.85
|
The uniting of the Federated Suns and the Lyran Commonwealth was achieved through Hanse Davion's marriage to Melissa Steiner, not the Fourth Succession War. If I remember correctly, Hanse's main thrust in his invasion was into Kuritan space.
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
|
Vapor
12/03/02 04:34 AM
202.128.71.85
|
Ok, then. Who is FanPro, and why have I never heard of them before?
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
|
Bob_Richter
12/03/02 04:45 AM
4.35.174.250
|
>>>If I remember correctly, Hanse's main thrust in his invasion was into Kuritan space. <<<
You remember wrong.
It was into the Capellan Confederation.
>>>The uniting of the Federated Suns and the Lyran Commonwealth was achieved through Hanse Davion's marriage to Melissa Steiner,<<<
Politically, yes.
I was talking about physically.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Bob_Richter
12/03/02 04:46 AM
4.35.174.250
|
And you haven't heard of them because you are a terribly underinformed person (meaning no disrespect.)
Go look on www.ClassicBattletech.com and come back when you're done.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Vapor
12/03/02 05:23 AM
202.128.71.85
|
He did gobble up a bunch of Kuritan planets, though. My point, however, was that he didn't attack any Lyran worlds.
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
|
Vapor
12/03/02 05:26 AM
202.128.71.85
|
How new is that site? I've done numerous searches for BattleTech sites over the past few years, and I've never turned up that one.
Another question. Are they not allowing products to be purchased via their web page? Or am I just not finding the way to do it?
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
Edited by Vapor (12/03/02 05:36 AM)
|
Karagin
12/03/02 07:48 AM
68.21.149.194
|
Go to this site:
www.classicbattletech.com
It has the links you are looking for and is FP's US page...acutally it's suppose to be the offical BT page.
Fast Forward Games (think that is right) is the company that is main hub for buying BT stuff, there is a link on the CBT site.
Hope this helps.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Warner_Doles
12/03/02 09:57 AM
206.27.40.58
|
In reply to:
"I've seen Hatchetmen, Axmen, Berserkers (and things far MORE potent in melees) all use their weapons effectively in combat against those desperately trying to avoid that result."
Agreed. A Ti Ts' ang is one dangerous mother in the field. That Dragonfly he he likes so much would be eaten alive by a 60 ton machine that is nearly as fast as it is! 24 points on a strike with TSM hot. (Berserker too... but I don't like it much. )
|
Warner_Doles
12/03/02 10:04 AM
206.27.40.58
|
In reply to:
"MOST of the mechs that they have shown us, DO have melee weapons..."
Actually I believe its 5 (8 if you count the MODS as a seperate 'Mech but really only one type of 'Mech) with Melee weapons that I can count of the top of my head.
ForestryMech
ConstructionMech
AgroMech
MiningMech
Hatcheman
This is only a handful of 'Mechs out of the total number out and coming out soon.
|
Warner_Doles
12/03/02 10:17 AM
206.27.40.58
|
In reply to:
"Are they not allowing products to be purchased via their web page? Or am I just not finding the way to do it?"
Correct. ClassicBattleTech.com will never be a site that product can be purchased from. Fast Forward Entertainment is our distributor and point of sale for product. You can find their site at Fast Forward Entertainment. For miniatures you can get them from Ironwind Metals. Good luck!
BTW, check out what is getting ready to be released in the next two months too. That information can be found at Product Information.
Enjoy!
|
Toastrider
12/03/02 10:37 AM
172.155.115.46
|
As told by the Prince himself at the end of Warrior: Coupe, Hanse Davion's rampage through the Capellan Confederation was to more or less break House Liao as a power in the Inner Sphere, mostly due to Max Liao's brain-wiping someone and reprogramming them to be a duplicate of the Prince. It wasn't the 'double' tactic that torqued Hanse off so much as it was how Max had more or less stolen the dupe's life, looks, and memory.
I don't think the Federated Suns or Lyran Commonwealth gained many Kurita worlds, from what I've read in the Warrior trilogy. The Lyrans didn't seem to get much due to shenanigans in the Isle of Skye (thanks, Aldo Lestrade, you PUTZ). And the Draconis March border was secured with the help of Wolf's Dragoons, who were battered from Misery but still strong enough to keep the pressure off the Federated Suns while the Feds pummelled the Capellans into oatmeal. The differences in the borders between 3028 and, say, 3040 don't seem particularly profound for the Drac/Lyran or Drac/Fed borders.
--Toasty
"The survivors, not the victors, write the history books."
|
Toastrider
12/03/02 10:40 AM
172.155.115.46
|
Luck always plays a factor in battles. However, I can think of a couple environments where hatchet-mounting Mechs are not only useful, but downright dangerous. Urban combat, heavy woods... any area where visibility and ranges are shortened by obstacles, and where you can't get up to speed easily. Walking around a corner and running into an Axman can be a real pain in the ass...
--Toasty
"The survivors, not the victors, write the history books."
|
Karagin
12/03/02 11:07 AM
68.21.149.149
|
That's nice, point is still vailded...most have melee weapons of some type...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Warner_Doles
12/03/02 12:40 PM
206.27.40.58
|
Eric define most please. You are using it as a statement that the majority of the MechWarrior Darkage miniatures have melee weapons. That persumption on your part is wrong and your statement is misrepresentation of the facts. 5 'Mechs out of the line does not constitute the majority or most. It represents a small percentage.
|
Karagin
12/03/02 01:03 PM
68.21.149.239
|
5 of the mechs that are relased have melee weapons of some type...then we toss in the Hatchetman and other mechs like the Axman that raises the total to 7, plus given the "low" number of combat mechs there will be MORE mechs with things like chainsaws and such...thus MOST of the mechs encounterd in MWDA will have some kind of melee weapon.
And given that this my opinion based off what I have seen of the miniatures out for the game and have used in several games, to me it's clear that the idea melee weapons is part of the fiction. I still stand by the idea that melee weapons belong on Solaris and there alone NOT out on the battlefield.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Warner_Doles
12/03/02 01:18 PM
206.27.40.58
|
5 of the mechs that are relased have melee weapons of some type...then we toss in the Hatchetman and other mechs like the Axman that raises the total to 7, plus given the "low" number of combat mechs there will be MORE mechs with things like chainsaws and such...thus MOST of the mechs encounterd in MWDA will have some kind of melee weapon.
Eric...5 'Mechs include the Hatchetman. The Axman hasn't been released. Even if it is, and all the other 'Mechs of the Classic BattleTech line are planned to be added at some time (including all the new Reseens) the Melee Weapon Equipped 'Mechs will be a very small percentage of 'Mechs so armed. Your original statement was that most of all the MWDA 'Mechs released are so armed. This is not the case. Look I know you abhor, hate and deplore any WizKids/MechWarrior Darkage, but if you are going to discredit something like this you should at least do so with the correct information so that what you say is credible. Otherwise it comes off as some half back assertion filled with emotional discontentment.
And given that this my opinion based off what I have seen of the miniatures out for the game and have used in several games, to me it's clear that the idea melee weapons is part of the fiction.
True, it is your opinion. None the less it doesn't make it correct in as much as you would want to believe. The truth of the matter that only a handful of 'Mechs have melee weapons in MechWarrior Darkage and Classic BattleTech. Even if they changed that and armed every 'Mech with a sword, club, ax, knive, bastardsword, katana or mace it wouldn't take nothing from the game. It would make close attacks even more deadlier. You may not like them and believe they belong in Solaris 7 arenas, again doesn't make it a fact. In your game yes. In the canon universe, mine or everyone else, no.
It would be far easier to discuss with you these things if you would simply state that in your opinion you believe as you stated here. Far less eruptions of discontentment would rise up from the depths of hades too!
I still challenge you to a MWDA dual at GenCon 2003 if you have the brass to do so...
|
Warner_Doles
12/03/02 01:20 PM
206.27.40.58
|
In reply to:
"any area where visibility and ranges are shortened by obstacles, and where you can't get up to speed easily. Walking around a corner and running into an Axman can be a real pain in the ass..."
Oh yeah. Try having a Ti Ts ang get you in the back when its TSM is active and you're back armor is already layed open, in the dark dank woods..while it was hidden from you too....
|