Cadet
02/13/03 09:52 PM
206.102.32.32
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What more do I need than people saying they aren't going to follow the line anymore because they think the Jihad sucks?
Does not play well with others.
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masdog5
02/13/03 09:59 PM
205.213.146.208
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'I see and you tell me I am agruing the topic...funny seems that you are putting words in my mouth...'
Your style is very confrontational.
I found your post to Warner about that, and it is unfortunate that he hadnt replied. I'm not sure why they havent advertised much or anything, but IIRC, Fanpro got the CBT franchise slightly over a year or two ago. They are just starting to put out new products, and with new products should come new ads.
Not to mention, I think i have seen in other threads that CBT might just be around to keep fans happy for a while until MWDA becomes a hit. I'm not saying thats what is happening, its just one possibility.
Now that project phoenix is over, I can honestly start seeing more ads. I dont think they will all be at once, though. Just give them time.
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The_Nice_Guy
02/13/03 11:06 PM
137.132.3.12
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My local group just got another influx of players, and many of the rookies even thought CBT was a dead game, and that all the staff were doing something else. I had to go up to them, post the website link, before they realized that CBT is still alive and well.
And a mag like Games Unplugged will hardly ever reach Singapore, I think. How about some of the more well known mags? Why is it I see MW:DA ads all over the place but not a single CBT one?
If they are serious about claiming the two games are on equal footing, then they have to show it! If they're preferring one over the other, as is quite clear to everybody, then get them to SAY SO!
I don't mind if WK says that priority will be given to MW:DA, because that's the truth, and will explain their strategic choices in the market. I'll be miffed, but at least I know what they're trying to do.
But to have them say CBT will be pushed as much as MW:DA, and then not really doing anything about it, smacks to me of lying.
And I detest liars. It's the principle of the thing.
The Wobbly Guy
Beyond common courage. The mark of a true soldier.
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The_Nice_Guy
02/13/03 11:10 PM
137.132.3.12
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Does anyone believe MW:DA was spread around initially purely by word of mouth?
No, there were cons for it. Adverts for it. Demos for it. All these were needed to make the game successful.
So yes, CBT needs the same treatment. We have two of the above, demos and cons. Now we just need a good advert to grab gamers by the balls, to pull them to the website and check it out.
The Wobbly Guy
Beyond common courage. The mark of a true soldier.
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The_Nice_Guy
02/13/03 11:15 PM
137.132.3.12
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I agree with Bob. It's not shrinking, but it could grow even faster if there could just be some catalyst to spark interest.
Say, like a movie, a TV series, or even an MTV video!
Heck, there're already at least 30 players in the local campaign over here, and we're still getting new recruits and old birds as they find out about CBT's continued survival.
As for the jihad storyline, we're taking it one step at a time. Still in 3063, and blasting it out in the FC Civil War.
The Wobbly Guy
Beyond common courage. The mark of a true soldier.
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The_Nice_Guy
02/13/03 11:19 PM
137.132.3.12
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All companies, including GW, started small. How did they expand their consumer base?
FanPro needs to take certain steps, including advertising, if it wants to grow/expand. Yes, it is a bit of a gamble, but one that most people here agree will help.
The Wobbly Guy
Beyond common courage. The mark of a true soldier.
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The_Nice_Guy
02/13/03 11:21 PM
137.132.3.12
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How tough is it to put together an ad and get a mag to include it?
If they want to do it, then they had better do it soon while the MW:DA craze is still strong.
The Wobbly Guy
Beyond common courage. The mark of a true soldier.
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Cadet
02/14/03 12:29 AM
206.102.32.46
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Are more people coming in than are leaving?
Is the potential new player being reached effectively?
Does not play well with others.
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Vapor
02/14/03 03:08 AM
202.128.69.122
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In reply to:
Not to mention, I think i have seen in other threads that CBT might just be around to keep fans happy for a while until MWDA becomes a hit. I'm not saying thats what is happening, its just one possibility.
If this is the case (big "if", I hope), then I am very disappointed with FanPro. Personally, I don't care if MW:DA becomes a hit or not, I don't think I will ever play it. I want to see CBT flourish. If MW:DA becomes a hit, great. If not, too bad. Either way, I don't want to see CBT be put aside in favore of MW:DA.
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Karagin
02/14/03 12:27 PM
68.21.149.25
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We have given them time, they have been doing stuff for a year...a year of time to get ads out and to really show folks that the game isn't dead and that it is alive just as much as MWDA...but they haven't and that speaks volumes as far as things go.
Ads in all medias or at least in those that cater to gamers and sci-fi fans are excellent areas to reach new fans, and this game needs just that new fans.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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The_Nice_Guy
02/14/03 12:43 PM
203.124.2.57
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Currently, there're still new players coming in(and not a single one leaving! Those who left are all due to work or study reasons, and are temp absences only, not because of the jihad), but they need to get to the CBT message board first, which is difficult for interested newbies who have no idea what the miniatures gaming world is like.
I'm trying my best to spot those who came in thru the computer games and direct them to CBT(or from CBT to our site), but the numbers are surprisingly low for a comp game which sells as well as MW here in Singapore.
Just last week, I managed to pick up two new recruits off the CBT boards, and directed them to the forum for the local group. They did not even know there was a local CBT group, or even where the gaming shops were! Just goes to show how much more we need to do in terms of data dissemination.
For those who might be interested but do not have any idea of where in go both physically or online, there's no way CBT is reaching out to them effectively. Advertising might help, but these need to be in novels and general bookstores, not just specialized gaming mags if we need to reach out to the general public and the players. Most computer gamers I know also don't touch the mags, but they do pick up the novels, strangely enough.
Frankly speaking, every gamer who plays MechAssault, MW4, or Mechcommander is a potential recruit. WK and Fanpro need to put product tie-ins in the computer games themselves in order to inform the players of CBT or MW:DA, because there's no way a kid at 13/14 years old is gonna have an inkling of where to go, or what to do to join us. Word of mouth is useful, but reaches comparatively few 'uninformed' people. It is these 'uninformed' people that we need to reach out to.
In fact, I even know at least 3 people from my time in the army who were CBT players, but gave up years ago because they were unable to find enough people to play with. With the advent of the internet, though, organizing games, locations, and events has become a breeze. All I need to do was to post up the link, and presto, the newbie would instantly have a wealth of info at his fingertips.
But getting the very first link to them, whether the CBT board, or any one of the others like HMP, Sarna, Lords of the Battlefield, Khabal etc is the crucial, and most difficult part. Once that is accomplished, it is usually a done deal, if the gamer is interested.
Here's the link to the forum for our local campaign group. I'm sorta the unofficial rules and training master around.
http://forums.khabal.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=16
The Wobbly Guy
Beyond common courage. The mark of a true soldier.
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Karagin
02/14/03 02:03 PM
68.21.149.32
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I can follow your ideas here and it comes down to ads...in other places but the net....novels, magazines etc...all will help.
I am surprised that WK and FP haven't done this and if they have it's only for MWDA and then only to support that game...
One point I disagree with you on is that computer games will look at magazines and most of them are either Pen and Paper gamers as well or collect comic books, at least that's true here in the states. So just going with the novels to get the word out again is limiting their chances to reach the boarder market of possible fans. If they are going to do ads then they should hit everything possible to ensure that they can get the majority of the areas that fans will be looking for genere related items.
Limiting things means they are selling themselves short and thus capping the numbers of possible fans and will end up hurting the game more then helping it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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The_Nice_Guy
02/14/03 02:57 PM
203.124.2.40
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Over here, most computer gamers are just computer gamers. Sure, some of them might play other stuff like MTG and the other card games, but most computer gamers are just that. Schoolwork doesn't leave them a lot of time to do anything else(can't believe I'll be contributing to the problem as a teacher soon).
Also, minis gaming is a decidedly smaller fraction of the overall population. Heck, even pen and paper D&D isn't so hot, though it's not for lack of trying.
In fact, the most popular minis games here are BT(both versions) and Warhammer. There's nothing else. I haven't seen Heavy Gear players anywhere, and nobody goes for historical wargaming.
But yeah, FP and WK should try to hit as many spots as possible, but I think there's also an optimal level of advertising beyond which they could just be spending money for zero results. Law of diminishing returns.
All that's left is to decide which outlets offer the best returns. Over here, it's the computer games and the novels. Over at your side, it'll be the gaming mags and the comic books.
The Nice Guy
Beyond common courage. The mark of a true soldier.
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Karagin
02/14/03 09:47 PM
65.129.166.251
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I agree that not everything is going to be the best to advertise in but doing so at least shows they want BT to be taken seriously.
Advertisting doesn't hurt something, but not doing so is a sure way to kill a product fast.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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realworldviews
02/16/03 01:28 AM
24.98.62.128
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Time is something that we may not have.
By the time they start to put out more ads Fanpro may be in the same situation as FASA...
Broke and about to go out of business.
The more time that is allowed to go by the harder it will be to Save CBT.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Gangrene
02/17/03 12:32 PM
68.113.44.60
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There are several reasons I think may be behind FanPro's lack of advertising:
1) Poor business sense
2) Lack of resources. We don't really know how big FanPro is. For all we know, this company is ran by a guy living in his parents house (no, I haven't checked into it). Maybe the company is just too small to afford an advertising campaign, or perhaps all the advertisment is overseas in their home market.
3) They might be betting that the best way to make money is to simply market it to those who already play. Battletech has a small but hardcore fanbase. Also, Btech has been around a while and maybe market analysis suggests (don't flay me for this) that Battletech is not a very sellable product.
Gangrene
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Gangrene
02/17/03 12:43 PM
68.113.44.60
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2 - THE MOST EFFECTIVE FORM OF ADVERTISING is word-of-mouth
That's BS Bob. The most effective form of advertising is on television. Word of mouth is not that effective in this age of global communciation.
Gangrene
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Gangrene
02/17/03 12:52 PM
68.113.44.60
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>>>That whole lack of advertising is hurting the game because people just don't know about it. <<<
IF they don't, it's because they've been hiding under a rock.
LOL. Are you serious? Battletech isn't a big cultural icon. If I went to one of my friends and mentioned "Battletech" they wouldn't know what I was talking about, and if I mentioned "Mechwarrior" they would be more likely to identify it with Microsoft than a board game or RPG.
Gangrene
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Gangrene
02/17/03 01:48 PM
68.113.44.60
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That to me is the inherited problems and areas that the two game compete.
You're right, but its simpler than that. The two products do not support each other monetarily. Money from CBT does not support the development of MWDA products, or vice versa. Since both products are sold at game stores, and game store patrons have limited funds, the two systems are naturally competitors.
Gangrene
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Chunga
02/17/03 02:43 PM
66.84.240.243
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In reply to:
2) Lack of resources. We don't really know how big FanPro is. For all we know, this company is ran by a guy living in his parents house (no, I haven't checked into it). Maybe the company is just too small to afford an advertising campaign, or perhaps all the advertisment is overseas in their home market.
Actually, Fanpro America is just one guy although I'm pretty sure he doesn't work out of his parents house.
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realworldviews
02/17/03 10:21 PM
24.98.62.128
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Also remember Fanpro is, or at least should be, backed by WizKids. And WK spends plenty promoting MageKnight, HeroClix, and MWDA.
But then again what do I know.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Gangrene
02/17/03 10:59 PM
68.113.44.60
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Also remember Fanpro is, or at least should be, backed by WizKids.
Who ever came up with that idea? I thought that Wizkids had simply leased the rights to produce Battletech merchandise to FanPro, not that they had guaranteed any type of assistance.
Gangrene
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Karagin
02/18/03 10:12 AM
65.129.164.63
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I picked up the BT miniature rules book and I noticed that there where ads in the back...ads for MWDA, BT and HM products...Now the HM stuffs I can understand as well as the one for the Commandos...but an ad for BT and MWDA? That is like preaching to quior. The website info is in the front of ALL of the books, having a full page color ad for it in a BT book is like repeating a page it need not be done. The same ad could have been in oh say...Inquest, Wizard, Starlog, Dungeon or any other game related magazine, hell I have seen MWDA adds in KDOT...but alas NOTHING for BT.
And the miniature rule book really drove the point home of the future of BT...it's called MWDA...nuff said.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/18/03 10:17 AM
65.129.164.63
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And the closer we get to the time where BT is gone since it will be MWDA's timeline that has been reached...
They, FP, need to do something now not next month or next year.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/18/03 10:19 AM
65.129.164.63
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TV is a great media to get out a product to the public and barring that do to cost there are other ways...sadly it seems that FP or those who are in charge of their market divison seem to have forgotten things like printed ads, radio, trying to hit all gaming conventions etc....
Sad really....
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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masdog5
02/18/03 10:24 AM
205.213.145.225
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I will tell you this one last time, and it makes perfect sense if you think about it a little.
Maybe FanPro doesnt have the resources to advertise and put out the current slate of products. It wouldnt surprise me if they didnt have enough revenue to produce their goods, pay the licensing fees, and advertise.
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Karagin
02/18/03 10:30 AM
65.129.164.63
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IF that is true then their time is very limtied...and given that ads aren't that expensive if you research and start small, evne a small ad in magazine is better then NO ads, you can get more flash so to speak out to the public and thus increase the number of folks who know about the game....
And that color ad in the back of the BT miniature rules book could have gone in oh...Inquest or Wizard etc...and maybe one of those magazines could have even done a special on BT...oh wait that would mean that the marketing staff at WK/FP actually wanted to do something NEW with BT outside of the exsiting fan base...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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masdog5
02/18/03 10:41 AM
205.213.145.225
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How much does it cost to advertise in your own product: free.
How much does it cost to advertise in someone else's product: I dont know at this time. I was trying to reach Wizard or Inquests web page to see if they had any advertising info, but neither page seems to be up right now.
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Karagin
02/18/03 10:44 AM
65.129.164.63
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Ads in your own product DON'T reach new fans, it reaches the ones who are already there...aka the OLD fans.
Cost should be on average around $300 a month depending on size color and the time run of the magazine all of which vary.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
02/18/03 11:01 AM
4.35.174.250
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>>>Ads in your own product DON'T reach new fans, it reaches the ones who are already there...aka the OLD fans.
<<<
But they still cost a bare fraction of ads placed in someone else's product.
>>>Cost should be on average around $300 a month depending on size color and the time run of the magazine all of which vary. <<<
How much profit do you want to bet FanPro makes off of their $35 boxed set? It's not that much, but say it's $15. That means this ad is throwing away the revenue from TWENTY box sets EVERY MONTH. Are they going to have anywhere near that benefit from an advertisement in these magazines? I would bet against it.
I mean...$300 a month? You were just complaining about paying $35 for a box set. What makes you think FanPro has that kind of money to just randomly toss around?
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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