Vapor
02/11/03 07:37 PM
202.123.140.228
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In reply to:
Not very well, they didn't.
They did a better job than FanPro's doing.
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Karagin
02/11/03 10:07 PM
208.42.114.130
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Allince has NEXT to nothing from FANPRO on BT, they have the miniatures from IWM and tons of stuff on MWDA, I get the magazine as well as GAMETRADER...neither have ANY ads by FANPRO for BT, but tons of ads for MWDA.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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realworldviews
02/11/03 10:09 PM
24.98.62.128
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>>>Remember the fliers with exclusive 'Mechs?<<<
Nope.
>>>Banners?<<<
Nope.
>>>Maps?<<<
Nope.
>>>Displays?<<<
Nope.
You don't remember these things... well maybe they weren't as prolific in the gaming stores, but I do remember at all the big Sci-Fi and Gaming cons that I went to, FASA always seemed to have a huge booth with plenty of free stuff like posters and flyers with special mechs that could only be found at that con.
>>>That whole lack of advertising is hurting the game because people just don't know about it. <<<
IF they don't, it's because they've been hiding under a rock.
I know of plenty of people who didn't know that CBT was back until I said something to them. With all the MWDA advertising going on it really didn't surprise me that they didn't know it was back.
Now if WK would put just a portion of what they spend pushing MWDA on CBT, CBT would be doing a heck alot better.
But that's just my $0.02, and heck what do I know.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Cadet
02/11/03 11:08 PM
206.102.34.100
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My local gaming store only has a single copy of the FC Civil War book and a few metal minis on the shelves. Appearantly it is stuff that was ordered and never picked up. I asked why they didn't have more stuff there and appearantly there is zero demand for BattleTech. When I pushed the issue, the woman said no one even knows it is still a going concern. The distributors just don't seem to be interested in pushing a product that the publisher doesn't seem very adament in advertising.
Now MWDA on the other hand...
Does not play well with others.
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Bob_Richter
02/12/03 02:16 AM
4.35.174.250
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>>>You don't remember these things... well maybe they weren't as prolific in the gaming stores, but I do remember at all the big Sci-Fi and Gaming cons that I went to, FASA always seemed to have a huge booth with plenty of free stuff like posters and flyers with special mechs that could only be found at that con.<<<
But FASA only ever went to the big ones, and their advertisement was almost completely limited to that. I'm pretty sure FanPro is still touring the major Cons. No point here. Moving along...
>>>I know of plenty of people who didn't know that CBT was back until I said something to them.<<<
Really?
Hm. That's not terribly surprising. A lot of folks DID go and hide under a rock when Battletech arrived. Most people these days have some access to the internet. If they had even the slightest modicum of interest in their old hobby, they might periodically run a search for it.
Google's top result for Battletech is the following link: FanPro's Official Classic Battletech Website
A number of folks go to a pretty significant effort to keep this site online and updated. This is FAR more effort than FASA ever put into having a web presence. In the last days of FASA, *THIS FAN-OPERATED SITE* was still the first hit any search engine would give you on Battletech.
You practically have to be trying to ignore the fact that FanPro is producing Classic Battletech Products. It's literally ALL OVER THE WEB.
I'm not surprised that a small company like FanPro LLC doesn't pay for expensive advertising slots that would do nothing but losing money. FanPro's doing a half-decent job of getting the word out, and the rest, as always, is up to us.
And, a final point, just in case you think this point still stands, I met people back in the mid-nineties who thought Battletech was long-dead and buried.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
02/12/03 02:17 AM
4.35.174.250
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>>>They did a better job than FanPro's doing. <<<
That's a matter of opinion, and (for the record) I strongly disagree.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Cadet
02/12/03 02:39 AM
206.102.34.103
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What do you base you opinion on? I mean what factors have helped you make up your mind that FASA did a worse job marketing BattleTech than FanPro has?
Does not play well with others.
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Cadet
02/12/03 02:42 AM
206.102.34.103
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But Bob, all those things I mentioned were found in a regular store, not just in a convention.
Besides, does "pretty sure" really cut it? How much does FanPro really advertise at the major cons? Do they hand out freebies? Do they have a major booth or just a table with a couple of books?
Does not play well with others.
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Bob_Richter
02/12/03 07:11 AM
4.35.174.250
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>>>I mean what factors have helped you make up your mind that FASA did a worse job marketing BattleTech than FanPro has? <<<
How about the fact that FASA never bothered to maintain its website? Or that I never saw even one of those promotions you mentioned? Or that they sold their most powerful marketing and money-making tool to Microsoft?
I don't know what's up with your FLGS, but mine got FanPro's Battletech stuff more or less as soon as it came out. You trying to tell me that Kennewick's Infinite Frontiers is that much better than whatever pitiful excuse for a hobby shop you frequent?
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Eclipz
02/12/03 08:59 AM
66.191.27.103
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You live in Kennewick?? My sister in law lived there for a few years and I have been there twice! The wind blew so hard when I was there I thought we were gonna land in Oz.
Scott
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masdog5
02/12/03 10:23 AM
205.213.145.33
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As a gamer, I wouldnt throw my money down on a game I just saw in a magazine unless I had alot of word of mouth to back it up. Thats how I got into Magic and half the other CCGs during that craze in the mid 90's.
As for battletech, I got interested in it not through what my game shops carried, but my friends telling me about how good some of the novels were.
Hmm...I think thats the word of mouth that Bob was talking about.
If they want to hook potential players and sell this stuff, demos would be much better at selling this game then any ads you see in a magazine.
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masdog5
02/12/03 10:29 AM
205.213.145.33
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I used to frequent a number of gaming and comic stores in my area until I became pretty good friends with one of the owners. He would not only special order current items, but also bid on items from Ebay if they were OOP.
He even posted some items on Ebay for one of the other patrons.
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Karagin
02/12/03 03:17 PM
208.42.114.130
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Lots of folks want to see the ads in a magazine and game trade publactions over just on the Net...
Just because something is on the net doesn't mean it's supported or even in print anymore, aka Renegade Legion, so to a lot of folks they need to see real ads.
Just going with the idea that everyone will see what's on the Net is like only putting up one ad on two lane road and wondering why your business isn't getting business.
They need to advertise in ALL game/genere related magazines in order to reach ALL of the fans and possible fans.
Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/12/03 03:19 PM
208.42.114.130
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That is the point Bob, they can't just rely on the Web Site as their only promotion tool and that is ALL they are doing.
They need MORE ads, in more areas and thus able to reach MORE folks.
Going with just one media outlet is a sure way to shoot themselves in the foot.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/12/03 03:22 PM
208.42.114.130
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It takes both forms to be sucuessful, not just one. The ads show folks the game is supported, the word of mouth let's folks know that others do play it and thus they will try to show the game to others.
With out both the game won't be successful, it needs both to survive and right now it only has one.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
02/12/03 09:19 PM
4.35.174.250
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No, my FLGS is in Kennewick (WA, particularly, there may be others, I don't know.) I live in nearby Richland, WA.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
02/12/03 09:21 PM
4.35.174.250
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>>>That is the point Bob, they can't just rely on the Web Site as their only promotion tool<<<
Why not?
It's a damn good one.
Beats the crap out of shelling out hundreds of dollars to advertise in magazinse most folks have never heard of.
>>>They need MORE ads, in more areas and thus able to reach MORE folks.<<<
Why? Why don't you ask FanPro if their current business model is succeeding? I'll bet you the answer is "yes." That being the case, why change anything?
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
02/12/03 09:23 PM
4.35.174.250
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>>>They need to advertise in ALL game/genere related magazines in order to reach ALL of the fans and possible fans.<<<
No, they don't. In fact, they need to NOT do that, as it would be a horrific waste of money.
FanPro doesn't need the fans who are hiding under rocks. They would be nice, but they're not needed. What's so hard to understand about that?
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
02/12/03 09:24 PM
4.35.174.250
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>>>If they want to hook potential players and sell this stuff, demos would be much better at selling this game then any ads you see in a magazine. <<<
...can you think of a better way of advertising the game? I can't.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
02/12/03 09:27 PM
4.35.174.250
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>>>The ads show folks the game is supported,<<<
So does a continuously updated website. FASA's got updated once every two or three years, prompting a lot of people to think Battletech was dead from time to time.
>>>With out both the game won't be successful,<<<
It's being successful. Since FanPro took over, more and more players are getting on board again. FanPro is MAKING MONEY. Given this FACT, you're clearly wrong. (no, I don't excpect you to admit it.)
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
02/12/03 09:28 PM
208.42.114.130
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They need ALL of the fans and they need to have ads in ALL of the magazines that Sci-Fi and game fans will be reading.
No new fans means they will not grow, no growth means they die and thus they take BT with them.
What is so hard for you to see that with out new fans they can't stay in business and thus show Jordan that BT has a future?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/12/03 09:34 PM
208.42.114.130
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It's a fair one and it's only ONE source of media. They need to hit all sources that will appeal to the target audience, which are sci-fi fans and gamers.
Thus that means magazines like Wizard, Starlog and others. And just because you don't visit your comic book or local chain book store doesn't mean magazines like the two mentioned above are not out there.
History lesson for you, FASA use to advertise in Starlog for their ST RPG...that meant that they reached a lot of ST fans and that gave them an in with those who might not have know about the ST RPG that was one of FASA big sellers in the 80s.
Going with one media source limits your avenues to reach new customers and show the store owners that the game is still alive.
I don't see why you are having such a hard time understanding this, it's simple if they don't advertise in game magazines and genere related magazines they are doing nothing but hurting themselves and the game.
They need new customers to grow and to show a profit and thus they need to do more the rely on a website, they need hardcopy ads in magazines and more push at conventions to really show folks that they are doing BT.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/12/03 09:37 PM
208.42.114.130
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They are not making money, if they were they would have the ads out, they don't.
The fan base has not grown to the point that Jordan is dropping MWDA and taking BT back to the main flagship game.
The fan bases is there, but without ads and counting on the website to be the only source of info and proof isn't going to convince store owners to carry something that they don't see ads for in Gametrader or Alliance magazines or anything in Wizard or other such magazines.
To believe that the web site is their gold mine is nuts, but I doubt you will agree and I am sure you have some other off the wall line of reasoning as to why all they need is the website and that true advertisment like is being done for other games is wrong and not for BT...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/12/03 09:39 PM
208.42.114.130
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I can. Ads in magazines that are ready by gamers and sci-fi fans, like Starlog and Wizard.
The Commandos reach one group of fans the players, they have ONE firebase and while they do show off the game they are not every where and with out the hardcopy ads in a NOTEABLE magazine a lot of stores won't carry what they see as dead product.
I am sorry you can't or won't see or understand this.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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realworldviews
02/12/03 10:12 PM
24.98.62.128
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The fan base has not grown to the point that Jordan is dropping MWDA and taking BT back to the main flagship game.
I personally do not think Jordan would ever drop his cash cow of MWDA for CBT, no matter how big it got. MWDA is just making him too much money now.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Karagin
02/12/03 10:14 PM
208.42.114.130
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You have a good point. But with out the advertisment BT isn't going anywhere and that is where we are at..NO advertisments for the game.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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realworldviews
02/12/03 10:28 PM
24.98.62.128
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I agree with you WK needs to advertise CBT at least a little more. So far I can only remember the one Games unplugged ad, andthe ad in the 1st MWDA novel.
That just isn't enough.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Bob_Richter
02/13/03 02:53 AM
4.35.174.250
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>>>The fan base has not grown to the point that Jordan is dropping MWDA and taking BT back to the main flagship game.
<<<
And it won't, ever. The fanbase was never large enough to accomplish that task and NEVER WILL BE. If you think that's possible, you're dreaming.
If you think putting ads in a few magazines that NOBODY READS, you're wrong.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Vapor
02/13/03 03:27 AM
202.128.73.130
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In reply to:
If you think putting ads in a few magazines that NOBODY READS, you're wrong.
If nobody reads the magazines, the magazines wouldn't be getting published. Hence, that argument is false.
Just an FYI, but it doesn't cost a lot of money to put a one-page ad in a magazine. And that magazine has the potential to reach thousands of people. Depending on the magazine, the ad might even be less than what FanPro is already paying for their website.
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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masdog5
02/13/03 09:17 AM
205.213.145.33
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Its not that hard to see what Bob is talking about. He admits that there are more ways than one to get to other potential gamers. Please, get this through your thick head: Magazine Ads arent the be all, end all solution to advertising.
Personally, I would not drop money on a game that I just saw in a magazine. I would need some other hook, like seeing a demo of it, or hearing about it from some other player.
Thats what makes the most successful games. Not a bunch of color or b/w pages in some magazine.
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