Nightward
12/01/01 09:41 PM
203.134.12.8
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There is no such thing as a 'Short Sword', nor is there such a thing as 'Long Sword'. Yon Roman Gladius is essentially a knife.
'Short Sword' is a more modern definition for anything considered too long to be a 'Knife'. 'Long Sword' too, is anything too thin to be a Broadsword but not long enough to qualify as an Espandon or Two-Handed Sword.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Nightward
12/01/01 09:44 PM
203.134.12.8
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"The Katana is a slashing blade, after all. "
*THWACK*
Wrong. Dead wrong. There are several moves that emply the oint. It's just that the majority of Kenjutsu is about edgework.
I refer again to David Eddings for a humerous quote:
"Why do you do that? If you have not hit the heart with the first four inches of blade, another two feet of the sword is not going to do much, is it?"
"I suppose we do it because it looks flashy."
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Bob_Richter
12/01/01 11:06 PM
134.121.144.40
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The Katana's point is poorly suited to stabbing, due to the curvature of the blade. Yes, it CAN be used for that purpose, but like the Cutlass, Scimitar, Falchion, or ANY other curved sword, it is primarily designed and employed for slashing.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
12/01/01 11:10 PM
134.121.144.40
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I will have to read David Eddings one of these days.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
12/01/01 11:24 PM
134.121.144.40
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The Gladius is a sword, not a knife. (It is simply the longest sword that Roman metallurgy could reliably produce. Their knives were much shorter.)
There is indeed such a thing as the "Short Sword" it is also known as the "English Sword" and an entire fighting style developed for its use in the middile ages.
Sword and style go together. A Broadsword is a two-handed sword that can be used in such a capacity. A Bastard Sword is a hand-and-a-half sword that may be used either one-handed or two handed with equal facility. One presumes a longsword would be a one-handed sword longer than a short sword, though I know of no such blade or style outside the realm of fantasy.
"Rapier" is a term used generally for renaissance duelling swords, and they come in a great variety. Some early Rapiers were even reinforced to make functional battle swords. The English varieties of the blades were often shorter and stouter than their continental counterparts (partly due to a law in London limiting the length of such a sword.) Later Rapiers would be entirely useless for anything BUT duelling, and they eventually lost their edge and came to be smallswords.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
12/02/01 12:52 AM
134.121.144.40
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Ah, but that was SECOND EDITION, and (What's worse) I never owned it. Any idea if it made it into any Third Edition manuals?
If not, I may just have to make my own rules. :)
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Cray
12/02/01 12:53 AM
12.78.180.113
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RGM is pretty much dead. The boards on classicbattletech are much more active now.
>And I agree, but this is (in fact) precisely what DnD does and WHAT I AM OBJECTING TO.
Again, D&D does not treat HP as meat damage absorbtion. If you don't agree, fine, it's no skin off my nose. I presented my case to help you get over that one grievance against D&D and move on to the far more obnoxious problems like classes and levels.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Bob_Richter
12/02/01 01:37 AM
134.121.144.40
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>>>
Again, D&D does not treat HP as meat damage absorbtion.<<<
Yes, it does.
It may not SAY it does, but this is precisely what it does do, and I notice that you have conveniently ignored the various support for this point.
So, bah, anyway.
>>>I presented my case to help you get over that one grievance against D&D and move on to the
far more obnoxious problems like classes and levels. <<<
I just group in HPs with these other two. I'll get off HPs as soon as people stop defending them.
Didn't I attack classes and levelling? I meant to.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Warner_Doles
12/02/01 11:28 AM
206.27.48.9
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In reply to:
"The Katana's point is poorly suited to stabbing, due to the curvature of the blade.
Say what? The Katana's point is designed to be an armor penatrating point. It is a far superior weapon this a standard long sword. The sword is curved but it does not take away the effectiveness of its point. I don't know where you got that information from but its not what I learned about the weapon. Full Samurai Armor may have been constructed out of lacqured bambo and was as strong as metal armor, you still weren't slashing through it as easy as one thinks. The point of the Katana was used to punch through it. You should look at the design of the Katana closely. Study the curve of the blade and the first 6" of the tip of the sword too. Then you will see that this weapon is truly a work of martial art designed by masters.
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Nightmare
12/02/01 12:38 PM
194.251.240.107
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<<<Say what? The Katana's point is designed to be an armor penatrating point.<<<
BZZZZT! Wrong! This is one of the more common myths surrounding the katana, but it is not true. Likewise the story
about japanese officers in WW2 chopping off machine gun
barrels with their swords is just that, a story. A samurai certainly didn`t use his sword against a fully armored foe
as a first choice weapon. He used a bow, a spear or a naginata, all better suited for the task. The katana is ideally
suited for cutting down peasants who get in the way though.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Nightward
12/02/01 07:37 PM
203.134.12.8
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Say what? Despite what people think, the Naginata was more or less a ceremonial weapon, like Halberds. Some idiot would have always tried to use them in battle, but Naginatas are *&^%ing heavy and very, very slow. The weighted end does little to enhance their usefullness.
Trust me on this; I have used one.
Samurai would have employed the Katana during duels, not warfare. The No-Dachi, O-Katana, or a spear would have been his first choice against an armoured foe on the field of battle.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Nightward
12/02/01 07:46 PM
203.134.12.8
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Bob, I really must ask why you are using a Rapier in the first place.
Unless you have taken to the 'Musketeer' or 'Dandy Noble' role, that is.... ;)
I think what you are complaining about is the inability to kill stuff. Still, you weapon should be a good three times faster than Jimbo (or whoever he is) the Half Orc with the Broadsword, so you should be hitting things 3 times as much as he. And thus doing about the samew amount of damage as he, though just not all at once.
Some rules are never going to make sense (like level 2 LOS rules in BattleTech), so make your own. If your GM does not listen to your (in my view, valid) concerns, find another group. Lord knows that's what I had to do, after 'Mad Lord' Byron and his adventures. Such as 'Everyone becomes a Dark Paladin of Takhisis' parts 1-88,8888,888,888,052. He hated people who chose 'Good' alignments (let alone 'Lawful Good', like my Pladin of Tyr) and tried to force every player to change alignments to 'Lawful Evil' and serve Takhisis as Dark paladins. The fact that I was Aasimar and had actually *MET* Tyr not withstanding, I did not want to serve Takhisis. But he kept on trying. The Dragon story I told was one of his attempts to kill my character becuase I would not acquise to his whims. I suggested making a new character for me to play as, one wqho *WAS* a Dark paladin, but he refused to even think about it. I had no wish to change from my level 12 avenging (half, anyway) angel and rewverting to a level 1 Dark Paladin, so I left. He then proceeded to b!tch at me for the next month because the group had died (to a man) when he sent them u against a Greater Gold Dragon. Apparently, I would have made all the difference. Yeah, right. I would have died too.
To sum up: Some GMs are just cr@p.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Nightward
12/02/01 07:51 PM
203.134.12.8
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Every game involves some sort of 'Class' and 'Leveling' system. In MW, for example, you can be a mechWarrior, Battle Armour pilot, or one of several Civilian types. Whilst far less restrictive than AD&D, it is still a 'Class' system. Ditto for ShadowRun. Street Samurai, spellslinger, or hacker (I forget their ShadowRun name, as I have not played for so long...I think it was 'Decker'...). Some games (like World of Darkness) are much more free-form, but they still have 'Classes'.
Ditto for 'Levelling'. Whilst yu may not have actual 'Character Levels', you still get EP which you use to improve your character. No game really models learning or improving character abilities terribly well, but again W.o.D. does one of the better jobs.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Nightward
12/02/01 07:55 PM
203.134.12.8
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You should. As I said elswhere, he is a good writer but seems to be addicted to magical rocks as plot devices. (the Orb of Aldur and the Bhelliom, for those in 'the know).
I also suggest Terry Pratchett. If any author is to take over from Douglas Adams as a comedic writer, it will be (in my opinion, already is) Terry Pratchett. Viva la Discworld!
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Bob_Richter
12/02/01 08:12 PM
134.121.144.40
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Hm. No matter how much my DM at home changes things, it isn't going to change how they work at Cons.
Which pretty much reinforces the fact that I should take up drinking and get really smashed before Cons.
:)
I'm using the Rapier because I'm enamoured of the weapon myself, and that bled into the character concept.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
12/02/01 08:21 PM
63.173.170.64
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Right I have it already, point being that in the Players Handbook they did mention using one item to be another till they did up item be it a sword or what not, at a later date...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
12/02/01 08:25 PM
134.121.144.40
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Not EVERY system has a "class" system.
MW2, for instance, doesn't. Though you can't pilot a fighter, pilot a 'Mech, operate Battle Armor, and flip burgers, all at once, you can certainly have all the skills and abilities to perform any and all of these tasks. Not, admittedly, very well, but who ever heard of a burger-boy who was notoriously good at his job?
Shadowrun's "class" restrictions are largely an outgrowth of its priority system, which restricts you to being one of several types of mages (but never "a little bit" of one or the other) or a mundane.
As a mundane, you can be anything and/or everything within that domain. Give a Street Sam a datajack and a Deck, he's a Decker. Give him a VCR and he's a Rigger...
Even as a Mage or Adept, you have a great variety of options as to what KIND of spellslinger you want to be....
...and then there's alway my favorite, the spellslinging Physical Mage/Street Samurai/Decker/Rigger.
Shadowrun's more free-form than a lot of people give it credit for.
Even if we accept that MW2 (I'm not touching 3ed with a ten-foot pole) and Shadowrun have "classes", these classes are NOT THE BASIS OF THEIR CHARACTER CREATION SYSTEM. They simply represent a role a character can take on, and a set of abilities s/he must purchase to do so. (And this, as it turns out, is the way we have classes in real life. Huh. Imagine that.)
"Levelling" is a unique concept. I'm not talking about character advancement...that's more general. "Levelling" is when, one day, my character is walking around in the woods and accidentally steps on a slug. It so happens that it was a MEDULLAN DEATH SLUG and it was worth 2exp. Since I already had 998exp. my character suddenly reaches level 2! His sword skills improve! His body hardens! He learns how to Dodge, and sing, and can now recite obscure lore regarding dragons!
THIS is "levelling". What Shadowrun does is just "character advancement", and while this concept is also flawed, it's a LITTLE easier to stomach.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
12/02/01 08:29 PM
134.121.144.40
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I have looked at the Katana's design, and while the point is functional, it is harder to position for a telling blow than with a straight sword. This is fact. Deal with it.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Nightward
12/02/01 09:05 PM
203.134.12.8
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Ah. I designed my Paladin around his Bastard Sword. I know the feeling.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Nightward
12/02/01 09:22 PM
203.134.12.8
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Yeah, I guess.
The curse of 'Talking a lot but saying very little' strikes again. I'll have another go at it ;)
I meant to say, 'Classes' are semi-rigid in most RPGs, but are *WAAAY* too restrictive in AD&D. Eg: warriors do not know the first thing about spells. They do not know that there are such things as 'Spell Components' or that if you disturb a Mage whilst he is casting, his head will explode (Ok, maybe not, but you get my point). Which is stupid.
The other thing I dislkie about AD&D is the fact that every 3rd person is either immortal, a shape-shifter, a mage, or (usually) all three. W.o.D. fluff states that less than 1 in 10,000 people will be a 'Supernatural', meaning that evn in the largest of cities there will be about 50 'Supernaturals'.
My beef was not exactly with 'Levelling' per se, but the incredibly stupid concept of 'Experience Points'. To my mind, the more you use a skill, the better you should get with it. The more you work out, read, or practise in the mirror, the better your 'Attributes' should get. All that 'kill a monster'/'succeed at task X' and get 'XX Experience Points' never made much sense to me. At least in BattleTech it was easy to see how pilot improvement worked; kill X amount of 'Mechs, get X amount of experience.
I personally dislike most RPGs on the simple basis that the people I played with were pricks. They believed that since they had more experience at playing RPGs than I did that they should be able to do everything that came along. I made a really kewel werewolf shapeshifting shamanic adept for ShadowRun and got relegated to the sidelines because the decker carried a Panther Cannon and killed everything that came along, denying me the chance to get into close combat or use my spells. And when I did get the opportunity to enter the game, it was becuase I was being yelled at by the other players who could not understand that as a Wolf Shamanic Adept I had not learnt any healing spells, and they were p!ssed off becuase they had gone in half-arsed and gotten large parts of themselves vapourised by the opposition. The GM didn't really help either.
The only exeption was the group I played Wraith with, and I suspect that has a lot to do with how much i liked the game.
Tournaments, however, are very different. I had some spare sessions and noticed that some RPG groups lacked memebers in corresponding sessins, so I went to them and took the empty spots. I )and the other players) had a wonderful time, as everyone could see what role their characters were supposed to perform and worked as a group. It was marvellous.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Bob_Richter
12/02/01 10:26 PM
134.121.144.40
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When you put it that way, I wholeheartedly agree with you.
If I ever make an RPG, it will have nothing like even semirigid classes (except, of course, that specialists do their thing better than generalists will), and character "advancement" will turn into growth and change, with a "use it or lose it" atrophy engine counter-balancing the rewards for using skills and stats and spending out-of-game time practicing.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Warner_Doles
12/02/01 10:40 PM
206.27.48.9
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What? Did I say something wrong? Hm.. I guess my sensai lied. Oh well its NOT the first time I've been lied too.
I guess you are right then. I withdraw my utterly bullcrap answer. Thanks for setting my mislead butt right.
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Warner_Doles
12/02/01 10:41 PM
206.27.48.9
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Bob I never said anything about a telling blow. But Nightlord or whatever his name is set me right. I was lied too and I all my knowledge I have is wrong. Oh well.. guess that's an interesting thing to find out 15 years after the fact.. Go figure.
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Bob_Richter
12/02/01 11:05 PM
134.121.144.40
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The only reason to use the point is FOR a telling blow. :)
Having held and manually manipulated a Katana, I find that it is well-designed for cutting or slashing, but poorly designed for thrusting. This is, of course, my opinion, which your greater experience and the word of your sensei (who may or may not be as ignorant of european swords as I am of the Katana) clearly overrules.
I am humbled.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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realworldviews
12/02/01 11:15 PM
24.98.66.27
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The main problem that I have with 3ed is that it's not D&D.
It may be set in the same universe but it's not the same game.
This is the same kind of problem That I and many other people have with ClickTech. It may be in the same universe but it's not the same game.
>>3ed is generally an improvement, and one step closer to
>>being a modern RPG. It'sjust not THERE yet.
And just praytell is a "modern" RPG?
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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realworldviews
12/02/01 11:19 PM
24.98.66.27
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I have always like the Rapier, it's only second to my Katana, but I don't get to use those in very many games.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Warner_Doles
12/02/01 11:23 PM
206.27.48.9
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In reply to:
"The only reason to use the point is FOR a telling blow. :)"
Maybe for those ill-designed European Swords! [simle]
No I know that for certain sword designs the point is use for the telling blow. But the Katana as I learned it used from 1 to 4 slashing strikes to deliver the telling blow. Usually ending up striking at the point of the neck and the shoulder meet. Or a couple of slashes across the mid-section to spill their entralls.
As to my experience.. I'm not that experienced. I just remembered the more "exciting" points of our training! 
No need to be humbled. I only wanted to point out that the Katana's point was (as I had learned it) for penetrating armor if used to thrust into the opponent. And iirc a thrust from a Katana was not a straight forward thrust like a European sword. You thrusted the sword in an upward motion driving it up through the trunk of the body from beneath the belly upward into the lungs. Or something to that nature. I don't rightly remember all of that as it was a long while ago. But I think I'm close to it. *shrugs* But I'm sure someone will let me know if'n I'd stepped on my "johnson" if I am wrong.
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Bob_Richter
12/02/01 11:23 PM
134.121.144.40
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>>>The main problem that I have with 3ed is that it's not D&D. <<<
What, just because it lacks THAC0's and has the AC's flipped over so they work in a more intuitive manner?
Please!
DnD 3ed is more like AD&D than any other game on the market, and most of its concepts are a direct progression (some are taken entire.)
>>>It may be set in the same universe but it's not the same game. <<<
No, it's an upgraded, expanded, and revised VERSION of the same game.
Not like Mechwarrior, Third Edition.
>>>And just praytell is a "modern" RPG? <<<
You forgot a "what".
A modern RPG is most clearly what DnD is not. It abandons THAC0s, hitpoints, classes, and levels for a more realistic and detailed roleplaying experience.
It may well not be your cup of tea.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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realworldviews
12/02/01 11:25 PM
24.98.66.27
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ShadowRun is fun I just don't get to play it enough.
I had a friend that got Hunter:TR when it came out and tried to put things that happened in it into other games that we were playing, it really annoyed the rest of use, and every time he talk about the characters and powers it just seemed to cheesy and Munchkinny,
But it may not be that bad it just doesn't interest me.
I do like to Vampire though.
And another fun game is Steve Jackson In Nomine.
Well I'll stop ranting now.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Bob_Richter
12/02/01 11:25 PM
134.121.144.40
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Similarly, I did not say the Katana's point could not be employed for thrusting, only that it was more difficult to use it in this respect.
:)
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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