Voidshape
08/03/09 02:37 PM
129.71.204.146
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Ok, so I'm working to maximize the melee potential of a mech. I have triple strength myomer installed. In order to make use of TSM, I need a heat of 9. So, I need to be able to decide whether or not my heat sinks are on. I know it's possible to switch off heat sinks, but when, in the sequence of play, is that done? What about turning them back on?
Also, can one turn on and off the 10 "free" engine heat sinks, the ones with no crit slots? The mech I'm building now doesn't have any heat sinks asside from those free 10. I don't really want to have to mount a PPC or something just to build up heat. I WANT that engine heat, baby!
Thing is, it's a 55 ton mech. That's 6 points of punching damage, rolled on the punch location table. With TSM active, that's 12 points of damage, enough to kill on a head shot. Head shots happen 1-in-6 on the punch table. So... I want to be able to get close (walking 7, running 11), throw 2 punches, and have a decent chance (1-in-6 rolled twice) of getting a kill...
New to the game... And little obsessed.
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Cray
08/03/09 08:35 PM
173.168.115.68
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Page 159, Total Warfare:
Shutting Off Heat Sinks: A MechWarrior may actually wish
to build up heat in some situations, particularly if his ’Mech is
equipped with triple-strength myomer (see p. 143). Building up
heat is most easily accomplished by shutting off as many heat
sinks as desired during the End Phase of any turn. Shut-off heat
sinks dissipate no heat in the following Heat Phase, and may
only be switched back on during a subsequent End Phase.
There are no restrictions on which heat sinks may be turned on or off - engine or otherwise. Also consider a small laser or two to help regulate heat.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Tripod
08/04/09 01:22 AM
192.94.94.105
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Hehe.... Your headding in the same direction i went....
I was unsure about turning off heat sinks back in the early 90's so I did add weapons. I eneded up with....
55 tons
6/9/6 ( 7/11/6 with TSM active)
arround 10.5 to 11.5 tons of armor
Endo steel
6 medium lasers
5 small lasers
1 mace
1 claw
1 big smile B )
I had critical problems and had to reduce the armor I think. I ended up making the design "level 3" and added Light FF armor, and or an XL Gyro to solve those issues....Yea, I dropped the ES and got LFF Armor and a XL Gyro to make it work I believe.
It was not possible with the tech in the 90's to build it straight IS tech, without loosing 2.5 tons of armor and dropping the ES or loosing 2 critical somewhere. My solution was to hunt down and capture a Clan Ryoken(Stormcrow, the only cannon mech I could find with a Clan 330XL).
Sorry for the side trip, in hindsight, knowing I can adjust my heat sinks at will... I'd drop 4 med lasers for 2 med pls... poof! Level 2! accept for the claw/mace...the original, original had 2 hatchets before I found out I can only use 1 a turn.
I did end up entering the Final version of this guy here in one of the design contests. Cant remember the name of the post but I remember it had a requirement of havinf at least 1 direct fire weapon and at least 1 missile weapon(or ammo based) so I dropped the mace/claw(8 tons) for a LRM 15 +1 ton of ammo. It's the same dammage with 1 club/hatchet as 1 punches...The mace was a different storry though....
Ohh... link to my Melee Beastie...
http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php...true#Post149009
This one has the reduced armor level 2 spec. My first attempt at fluff too....
TBA
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Cray
08/04/09 08:11 AM
147.160.136.10
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Quote:
55 tons
6/9/6 ( 7/11/6 with TSM active)
arround 10.5 to 11.5 tons of armor
Endo steel
6 medium lasers
5 small lasers
1 mace
1 claw
1 big smile B )
Except for the mace and claw, you can make that L2, Tripod. And I didn't use endosteel, though I could've added light ferrofibrous (which is now an L2 option).
Code:
BattleMech Technical Readout
UNDISTRIBUTED
Type/Model: Untitled 'Mech
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3025
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 3, Standard design
Mass: 55 tons
Chassis: Standard
Power Plant: 330 VOX XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 [118.8] km/h
Jump Jets: 6 Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
6 Medium Lasers
5 Small Lasers
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Untitled 'Mech
Mass: 55 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 91 pts Standard 0 5.50
Engine: 330 XL Fusion 12 12.50
Walking MP: 6 [7]
Running MP: 9 [11]
Jumping MP: 6
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 .00
Gyro: 4 4.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Triple Strength Myomer: 6 .00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 .00
Armor Factor: 168 pts Standard 0 10.50
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 18 23
Center Torso (Rear): 8
L/R Side Torso: 13 18/18
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 6/6
L/R Arm: 9 16/16
L/R Leg: 13 24/24
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
6 Medium Lasers -- 18 6 6.00
5 Small Lasers -- 5 5 2.50
1 Claw (THB) LH 4 4.00
1 Mace (THB) RH 4 4.00
6 Standard Jump Jets: 6 3.00
(Jump Jet Loc: 6 Undist)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 23 68 55.00
Crits & Tons Left: 10 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 12,807,728 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 1,610 (old BV = 1,344)
Cost per BV2: 7,955.11
Weapon Value: 1,382 / 1,382 (Ratio = .86 / .86)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 28; MRDmg = 4; LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 6J, Armor/Structure: 4/2
Damage PB/M/L: 7/2/-, Overheat: 2
Class: MM; Point Value: 16
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Tripod
08/05/09 01:20 AM
192.94.94.106
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Yea, I think 10.5 tons of LFF armor is just about max. I wanted the ES with normal armor to max it out(back in the day). So what melee weapons are Level 2? Hatchet obvoiusly... sword?
I picked those weapons because they add up to exactly 23 heat and can easily be managed to create any amount of heat between 0 and 23 to maintain that sweet spot of 9 on the heat scale. Plus, 1st round jump 6 and fire all weapons for instant TSM activation. Again, that was my thinking before I knew about shutting off heat sinks... It worked quite well with the Tech/Rules we used at the time. Now that I look back, it's a bit laser-boat-ish, I call it deadly-efficiency.
I remember wanting to drop my hand actuators and mount the original 2 hatchets to the forearms to gain the 2 crits I needed with the use of the endosteel.
VoidShape, do you have the intention of not adding any weapons at all? or just not adding so many to add up to 20(10)+ ? If you do plan on using weapons, what did you have in mind? I don't care what others say, I like the range of the ERLG. If I were to revamp this weapons loadout I'd probly go with 2 ERLG and some meds and smalls. hmm... er med and small are L2 now?
TBA
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Cray
08/05/09 08:46 AM
147.160.136.10
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Quote:
Yea, I think 10.5 tons of LFF armor is just about max. I wanted the ES with normal armor to max it out(back in the day). So what melee weapons are Level 2? Hatchet obvoiusly... sword?
Hatchets and swords are tournament grade.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Voidshape
08/05/09 12:36 PM
129.71.204.146
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Quote:
VoidShape, do you have the intention of not adding any weapons at all? or just not adding so many to add up to 20(10)+ ? If you do plan on using weapons, what did you have in mind? I don't care what others say, I like the range of the ERLG. If I were to revamp this weapons loadout I'd probly go with 2 ERLG and some meds and smalls. hmm... er med and small are L2 now?
I do intend to at some point make an all-melee mech, but this isn't it. I'm trying to capitalize on a set of conditions:
-all mechs have 12 points in the head
-the punch hit location table gives head shots 1-in-6
-TSM gives a x2 modifier to physical attacks
So, I wanted to have a fast-as-possible mech (it will need to be a hard target, to compensate for the need to get adjacent to punch targets) while still giving me 12 points of punch damage after the TSM multiplier. After accomplishing that, I didn't have much room for weapons. here are Mongol's specs:
55 tons
Biped
Tech level 3
IS
Fusion XL engine
Endosteel Internal Structure
Max armor (185)
W7, R11 (HARD TARGET)
two torso-mounted AC/5's
I think I need to re-think the weapons tho... I need to hit 9 heat fast...
New to the game... And little obsessed.
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Zandel_Corrin
08/05/09 07:35 PM
123.2.140.247
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A thought...
Punching damage is 1 for every 10T right? Doesn't that make your damage 5.5 and 11? I know .5s are normally rounded on damage but with TSM you don't have a .5 to round.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Cray
08/06/09 09:35 AM
68.205.198.74
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Quote:
A thought...
Punching damage is 1 for every 10T right? Doesn't that make your damage 5.5 and 11? I know .5s are normally rounded on damage but with TSM you don't have a .5 to round.
Right, damage would be 11 points for a 55-ton, TSM punch.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Voidshape
08/06/09 10:33 AM
129.71.204.146
|
Quote:
Quote:
A thought...
Punching damage is 1 for every 10T right? Doesn't that make your damage 5.5 and 11? I know .5s are normally rounded on damage but with TSM you don't have a .5 to round.
Right, damage would be 11 points for a 55-ton, TSM punch.
I must be misreading something. Wish i had TW as a PDF to look at here... I thought punch damage was figured as 1 point per 10 tons of mech, rounded up... so normal punch damage of a 55 ton mech would be 6 (not 5.5, as there are no .5 damages), then doubled to 12. Not "Doubled without considerations of rounding."
Damage from a 55 ton mech punch: 6
6x2=12.
Am I being too greedy? 
New to the game... And little obsessed.
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Voidshape
08/07/09 09:56 AM
129.71.204.146
|
Ok, so on letting this sit a little, I see the thinking. If taken literally, I still think a 55 ton mech should be doing 12 TSM punch points of damage, according to TW. BUT, common sense and fairness would seem to point to doubling the 5.5 to 11, not the 6 to 12.
When building mechs, I think it's pretty common to look for those break-over points, like walking at 5 hexes as opposed to 4, to gain another +1 modifier to your opponent's to-hit roll. In looking at punching damage, there seemed to be a break for mechs with fractional tonnage (55, 65, 75). And, there is.
So in thinking about how to make a fast punching mech, it makes sense to use 55 as opposed to 60 for tonnage, as 55 can hit higher speeds easier than 60 can, with the same punching damage. 6. Double 6 for TSM, 12. 12 was my target, for head shots.
But, I presume that advantages like that really aren't the intention of the game's designers. rounding is there for ease, not unfair advantage. 
BUT!
I didn't take into consideration the speed bonus TSM gives! +2 to walking, with running re-figured from there! So, I CAN have a 60 ton mech that moves at 7W! I build a 60 ton mech that moves at 5/8, which punches for 6. No big deal there. But once TSM kicks in, I'm walking at 7, running at 11, with 12 points of punching damage... and once can make two punching attacks per round. THAT is BADASS. All I really wanted was a mech that could move at 7/11 and punch for 12. a 60 ton mech with TSM does that.
New to the game... And little obsessed.
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Cray
08/07/09 02:06 PM
147.160.136.10
|
Quote:
Ok, so on letting this sit a little, I see the thinking. If taken literally, I still think a 55 ton mech should be doing 12 TSM punch points of damage, according to TW. BUT, common sense and fairness would seem to point to doubling the 5.5 to 11, not the 6 to 12.
Well...reading TSM in TW and the punching rules, it says to double physical attack damage and the punching calculations on pg145 say a 55-tonner would do 6 points of punching damage. So 12 might be correct. My bad.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Voidshape
08/07/09 03:42 PM
129.71.148.97
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Thanks for helping with this, Mike. So, what is canon?
New to the game... And little obsessed.
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Cray
08/07/09 04:53 PM
74.92.201.148
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Quote:
Thanks for helping with this, Mike. So, what is canon?
Whatever Total Warfare says, which appears to be 12 points. If you have formal questions on interpretation of TW and want canon answers (note my .sig's disclaimer), try:
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/board,26.0.html
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Tripod
08/10/09 04:12 AM
192.91.75.29
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I picked 55 tons for the exact same reasons, 12 dammage and ease of speed over 60+ tons.
I went with the same logic, punching damage is 6, not 5.5, BUT.... After a few fights, I made it 11...it was just too ugly... I ended up kicking most of the time anyways(for 22).... When the right leg is wounded, kick from the right side, like having targeting computer for your feet!
Also, recheck your TSM rules.... Not sure of the exact wording as of the newest book but, if it says +2 to walking, thats figuring in the -1 movement from....umm...7 heat?... I remember the rule to say +1 to walking, ignore the first -1 to movement. meaning, a 5/8 60 tonner would be 6/9 at 9 heat.
Are "Superchargers" (lol) still .....lol...sorry...in the ...hehe....rules? ROFL!!!! I think they worked with TSM.
Superchargers were MASC that destroyed the engine when they failed, not just the leg actuactors. (Old Max Tech and most likely went to file 13)
TBA
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Voidshape
08/12/09 10:36 AM
129.71.204.146
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ok, so I used a couple of my punchy-bots a few days ago. I was pretty hyped up about that 12 punching damage, and rushed forward with those mechs to get to punching range.
Let me tell you. Guns are better than fists. I got those puncybots into a world of hurt. I'm thinking that TSM is a great thing to add if you've got the crits and hand actuators, and you think you might be dealing with heat issues. Might as well turn excess heat into a boon, right?
But maintaining 9 heat for the sake of TSM punch damage is just a pain in the butt, and not worth it. I was making tactical decisions based on getting into punching range, and ended up all killed up.
The only thing that saved me in said scenario were my two 100-ton ER PPC gunboats (4 ER PPCs on each). They're slow, and they can't jump, but those are big guns with lots of armor, and that's what Battletech is all about: Big guns with lots of armor. It worked for pappy, and it works for me.
In short, and I know this is hard to believe, it's not good to bring fists to a gunfight.
(D'oh!)
New to the game... And little obsessed.
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Tripod
08/15/09 07:32 AM
8.23.64.196
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Hmm... 11 movement was usually enough to spring from cover to point blank... What was the terrain like?
TBA
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Voidshape
08/17/09 02:24 PM
129.71.204.146
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Quote:
Hmm... 11 movement was usually enough to spring from cover to point blank... What was the terrain like?
Buildings, trees. Also, however, I didn't have 11 movement. I was running at max 9, because the heat I had built up was countering the TSM's bonuses.
I DID do a good bit of punching damage. But the dice never gave me a head shot, and I was so close up that my rear got exposed on more than one occasion. It was a 5 v 5 scenario, and I should have maintained distance.
As I said, I DID end up winning the scenario, thanks in part to all the damage my Mongols (the punchybots) did, but it was my ER PPC gunboats that turned the tide.
New to the game... And little obsessed.
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Tripod
08/17/09 11:31 PM
192.94.94.106
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I'm not sure what you mean about your movement. If you have a 6/9/6 mech at heat 0, when you get to 9 you ignore the -1 movement penalty and add +1 walking making it 7/11/6 untill you reach the next negative movement penalty, then I'm not sure if it's a -1 or -2....
Was the punchybot 5/8? or 6/9? without TSM.
TBA
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Voidshape
08/18/09 12:54 PM
129.71.204.146
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Punchybot was 5/8. Got up to 6/9 with TSM.
New to the game... And little obsessed.
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Tripod
08/19/09 03:54 AM
192.91.75.29
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Gotcha, thought it was 6-9 for some reason. anyways....
What was the final loadout as you tested it?
TBA
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Voidshape
08/19/09 10:19 AM
129.71.204.146
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60 ton
Biped
IS
5/8
TSM
no jumping (mistake)
targeting computer
4 med pulse lasers
1 ER large laser
max armor for weight (201)
It's a good mech. There are no real issues with it. I just pushed it up into the enemy lines way too fast, and ended up getting flanked. 
New to the game... And little obsessed.
Edited by Voidshape (08/19/09 10:20 AM)
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