Requiem
05/26/20 05:07 PM
1.158.188.5
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…..the wealth is nice, but not the over riding force behind all actions in the LC.
The entire Canon Lyran history is built upon the premises of social rank and wealth ….
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Giving up worlds that she thought she would regain once Victor was dealt with
This reminds me of the establishment of the FRR where Katherine’s mother just gave away worlds …. Another scenario that ‘everyone’ believes that the Head of a Great House would do just because she made a quipped a response to embarrass a rival House Lord - after how many lives lost and over how many years were required to obtain them?
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the whole ordeal of removing those troops was to suggest she was not part of the Gemini situation…
And what, she couldn’t just send him a HPG message and say, “Hey, by the way….. I had nothing to do with what my brother did …. It is all on him and by the way I am pulling the Lyran state out of the FC because we have decided he is an unfit ruler…so can we have a non aggression pact on this one.”
Sorry to say but I cannot consider any of these suggestions to be valid! It is not within the realms possibility that any ruler would ever give up, without a War, such a massive area of space that generates a massive GDP including several military industrial corporations. Lyran troops bled to obtain these worlds – there is no way any ruler would just walk away from them!
In my opinion this is just a completely ludicrous proposition ….. whats next? Oh yes I absolutely believe this is valid! …… and next I will believe that the DC will allow Victor to marry a heavily pregnant Omika and they will give him Dieron Military Prefecture as a wedding gift whilst Duke Sandoval will give the toast …..
This is completely not believable!
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The fact remains they were not hers until AFTER she stole them. Simple fact.
…and the simple fact remains if Victor wants them back is going to have to pay! Politics 101.
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Disobedient? You mean stealing the archonship from the first heir to the FC wasn't being disobedient?
Question: she used her position to force changes
Answer: Only on those that were disobedient
Comprehension: those that were disobedient refers to her House Lords. And by the way she stole nothing when the Estates General offered her the Archonship due to Victor proving himself an unfit ruler it is LEGAL. If he wants to regain the Title then let him do so in an Assembly of the Estates General or Civil War!
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sending even more taxes to the higher ups.
Failure to do so is illegal …. To change the tax system, run for Government and change the Law.
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For someone that suggests breaking orders should mean death, such as troops not fighting to the death, you are very contradictive when it comes to someone that destroys the FC with her actions.
Law …..since when has the law been logical?
Cowardice in the face of the enemy is a valid charge officers can bring before a court of enquiry …. Though they should have absolute proof because of the political ramifications of this charge …..
Taking the throne when offered by the Estates General and the Military is also legal when they have no confidence in their current ruler’s administration ….. USA Constitution Twenty-Fifth Amendment is an example of an opt out Clause. In the event the people no longer have confidence in the current administration there must be a legal way (that does not involve the use of force) to remove them. The same can be said for the Lyran state it is a Legal means of restoring confidence in the leadership of the state.
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The idea that they nerfed the units to fit inside a specific range of pages is also something I would not put past the developers.
Then please do explain how and why the entire IS’s military is reinvented between the 20 Year Update and the following House Books? For no one will explain this issue so that it makes any sense …
Asked and not answered …..
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The basic issue here is the fact you argue that your numbers are correct, being they are the only viable way it could be, yet don't really have any, saying the developers numbers are wrong for their own product.
Canon – Twenty Year Update List of all Military Units for all IS Houses
Then the Clan Invasion …..
Then post clan invasion every IS House’s military undergoes a massive reorganization where the 20 year update and every book prior is no longer considered relevant to what goes forward – So does this mean that at any stage, for any reason, any IS House / Clan can have their size of their military changed with no recourse for past history just because TPTB wants to change it? And everyone will just accept this no questions asked?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
05/27/20 03:31 AM
66.74.60.165
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Do your actually know the books and the game? From more then a few responses, it seems like you haven't.
Katherine DID send a message saying she didn't participate and was horrified by the operation. But then do you really trust someone that is a leader of your biggest enemies? You might, most wouldn't.
And lives lost trying to do things and someone in the future screws up the sacrifice is standard operations for the human race.
We know what happens with Omi. Funny that you correct all the bad things that happen to the FS/FC, but won't even bother with the others. But then this is completely biased or favoring the FS/FC in the alt. Did I say that right? You claim the developers favored the clans, yet you are doing the same with Katherine and the FC? Does that stink of hypocracy?
There are many times in the past that lands won by combat were given away. Your beloved history is full of this action, such as all the lands taken in WWI and WWII. Germany, and a few other countries that helped them in the first war, should never have existed after the war by your accounts. The U.S. and U.K. should be in control of those places, as well as Australia being part of the Brittish empire still. Oh wait. They gave that up as well as the 13 colonies in north America? A good chunk of Africa should belong to the British as well.
Might want to read up on Feudalism. The top ruler tends to have power only when those beneath them say so. Otherwise, those running the areas can do what they want. Rebellions come from this, such as Skye. The PEOPLE want out of the LC/LA. Oh wait. That just screws up your entire argument of everyone loving Katherine. They want out even with her running things. Oh yeah. She was even worse trying to strangle them into submission. Interesting.
How about you get one of the original play manual for the game when it came out in the 80's? You know. The one before Citytech, where they had only 12 mechs. No canon other then the ac5 and it wasn't called the ac5, but autocannon. The largest mech in the game was the Battlemaster. So the ENTIRE history was changed constantly. As new things came out, they changed things even more. 2750 was the first time you ever heard of ER or Pulse weapons. And yet no Star League cache found ever had any. It wasn't even hinted at to the players.
So instead of rewriting the history at that time, they came up with things that didn't make smart sense, but everyone I know of, didn't really care much as they wanted to play the board game, not the RPG.
And to answer your question about change on a moments notice, it has been done in the past. Mainly having the force size increased, but not always.
As stated so many times already. Most players are not worried about the storyline having issues. They want to play the game, and without death matches, they need a war scenario.
Almost like the board game and the story really aren't about the same thing, come to think of it.
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Requiem
05/27/20 08:40 AM
1.158.188.5
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Note not one serious question debated –
Any serious and rational continuation of historical events based upon previous events – i.e. the continuation of history goes from from one pot hole in history to the next pothole due to a comple lack of understanding as to past events
Why Katherine would surrender the Terran Mach, as it belonged to the Lyran State as per the Wedding Toast, to the Federated Suns …. and by extension why the Lyran state would give up worlds within the Tamar region for the establishment of the Free Rasalhague Republic.
How Jumpships can be held for ransom.
The Law and how the Estates General and the military can elect, thus making it Legal, for the next person in the Line of Succession to take control of the Lyran State from that of the existing Ruler - if the existing ruler is found to be inadequate for the position …
That the 20 year Update and that of all future books are no longer a harmonious due to the reorganization of ever IS House’s military
Can I therefore assume my summation is to be taken as correct?
Please note I used irony and sarcasm in the previous post to ridicule and criticize the fault of historically unbelievable events.
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There are many times in the past that lands won by combat were given away …. such as all the lands taken in WWI and WWII.
Of which only occurred when Germany SURRENDED at the end of both wars. So when the Lyran State surrenders to the Suns then this comparison can be considered viable. (sarcasm)
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Feudalism.
Definition - https://www.google.com/search?q=feudalis...me&ie=UTF-8
When applied the top ruler rules and the bottom must pay that person homage – when this is reversed is when rebellions occurred – Runnymede – Wat Tyler’s Peasant’s Revolt ….
Question did the people of Sky use the Civil War as a pretext of rebellion to gain their independence at this time – I vaguely remember the Death of the Grey Death Legion around then – however, beyond this did their rebellion ever amount to anything of any worth?
So did Skye remain with the Lyran State post Civil War?
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How about you get one of the original play manual for the game when it came out
Launched in 1984
20 Year Update – First Published in 1989 – 5 years into the games development.
There is a massive difference between literature printed at the start of the game and that of 5 years into the games development.
Should we compare the first House Books with that of the most recently published now and make comparisons? (satire)
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Most players are not worried about the storyline having issues.
And what of those who are?
Finding issues within the game should be prerogative of the gamer in an attempt to improve its future development … case in point my Alt Vs Canon Clan Invasion – how many new and exciting additions have I created that is some small way add value to the game?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
05/28/20 03:53 AM
66.74.60.165
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Well for the super informed one, you have forgotten a fact about the FC alliance. The general estates was NOT the one to give Katherine the ability to take the LC out of the alliance. Maybe you should do some research and really read what is printed, not the words that aren't there. I had forgotten about it until a while ago.
The FC alliance had a clause in it that would allow either state to pull out of it if there was an emergency or issue that would really negatively affect the other.
And now you want to talk about bs set ups in the clans. Why not check out the IS first. The richest state is hobbled by social generals, meaning they could not use that economic might to remove the others.
The second richest state, the FWL, was so fractured, they were more likely to hit each other then the enemy, with a few exceptions.
The CC is the worst of all, yet some how has managed to stay in the game. They are weak and generally lacking funds as their leaders are hording that.
The DC is set up so they were so strict, they could not do much on their own, as their superiors would punish them, especially if their actions embarrassed them.
The FS was militarily better for the most part, yet didn't seem to have enough forces to do anything permanent.
Balance in the game really has odd quirks.
Jumpships held for ransom are basically seized by an entity, and 'ransomed'(sold) back to the original owner. Just like mech warriors and such.
Think about the contradiction in the general estates electing a new ruler, then place Katherine and Arthur side by side. Adam was pronounce Archon by Arthur, yet you say that isn't possible, yet Katherine taking over is? Adam is still part of the blood line, so that negates each other. He may be removed a few but still eligible for the position. Now argue that with Katherine.
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ghostrider
05/28/20 04:04 AM
66.74.60.165
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A lot of Africa was taken by the Germans, then taken by the allies. Yet all the countries were returned, and not absorbed. Italy, Hungary and others that went in with Germany were never kept by the victors. The brittish gave up a lot of lands so the sun did finally set on the Union Jack. India being a big one.
The statement of using the original 12 mechs compared to the over amount in the published TROs and a good chunk of the TROs are reconned into the game as they were NOT even made when the game came out. So yes. The game is constantly changing.
Maybe the developers realized just how many troops the FC had, then seen how many factories produced how much, and realized their accounting mistake. But this is a guess, as I don't work for, not talk to, the developers of the game.
Finding issues should be the prerogative of the gamers? Not even close.
The developers should find those issues and correct them as soon as they can. The gamers are to play and have fun, though it seems that some can't play the game because Omi ate Avocado toast one day. Even with a campaign, the players will have to change their universe to canon if they want to participate in other gamers universes. Just like D&D, or Warhammer or any other game out there. So in the end, the story doesn't matter, just stomping each other is.
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Requiem
05/28/20 06:13 AM
1.158.188.5
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Federated Commonwealth Alliance Document
3020 – The Lyran Commonwealth and The Federated Suns signed the FedCom Accords
20 August 3028 – Marriage of First Prince Hanse and Archon-Designate Melissa at which Hanse made his fateful announcement: "Wife, in honor of our marriage, in addition to this morsel... I give you the Capellan Confederation!"
Fourth Succession War – CC worlds and FWL worlds conquered in order to connect these two realms
These worlds can therefore be considered part of the Lyran Half as per the Wedding Declaration and not part of the Federated Suns
Fast forward ……..
Victor commits an unconscionable act, and under the FedCom Accords (A document that has again never been created for anyone to read – with only minor notes as to what the document actually contains) includes the provision that in case of emergency the two realms can be separated back into their previous Houses (CANON FACT).
The procedure of which relating to how the two FedCom converts back to their previous two Houses has NEVER been discussed.
As Katherine is Victor’s First-Princess-Designate (next in line for the throne), legally all she would require is authorization by the Government (Estates General) to take control and declare independence – such as how the USA 25th Amendment is implemented, with a signature on a document a change in government occurs.
Refer under The Estates General
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Archon_of_the_Lyran_Commonwealth
If it requires a different method can you please provide the canon evidence – Book Name and Page No.
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The richest state is hobbled by social generals, meaning they could not use that economic might to remove the others.
Prior to the 4th Succession War – Yes
However, post 4th Succession War onwards as the FedCom military work together this statement can no longer be considered an absolute. Hanse Davion’s military reformation changes the Lyran system and removes the Social Generals from the military.
So this statement is no longer valid …
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The DC is set up so they were so strict, they could not do much on their own, as their superiors would punish them, especially if their actions embarrassed them.
As for the DC – Gunji-no-Kanrei Theodore Kurita pushed through a new interpretation of bushido – thus he reformed the military and DC society – thus the strict view of the Kombine no longer holds sway
So this statement is no longer valid …
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The FS was militarily better for the most part, yet didn't seem to have enough forces to do anything permanent.
…and yet as per the 20 Year Update this statement cannot be considered to be valid statement with the FC possessing nearing 270 Regiments – and the next most powerful the DC at 99 Regiments.
So the entire idea as to the bs with regards to the Clans is a FACT, the Clan Invasion as written has no substance to any kind of what could be considered to a realistic story when applied with the 20 Year Update Report as to each House Militaries TO&E. (In my opinion – and statistically when mathematical statistical analysis)
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Think about the contradiction in the general estates electing a new ruler
Katherine is the First-Princess-Designate – i.e. if Victor dies without any children, Legally Katherine is next in line to assume the throne of the Federated Commonwealth.
Arthur has a son – so he is legally next in line, as per the rules of succession; Arthur DOES NOT have the legal authority to give the throne to Adam – he can make him Protector of the Realm and part of the Triumvirate Regency …
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Triumvirate_Regency
Adam is on a Cadet Line of House Steiner so distant his name nor or his family line ever appears on the official Family Tree …. So from a legal point of view this becomes a Coup … not an official transfer of one Ruler to the Next (which shows a complete lack of understanding as to the rules of Succession)
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Adam_Steiner
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Adam is still part of the blood line …. He may be removed a few but still eligible for the position
Can I laugh now at the absurdity of this statement when applied against the Rules of Succession.
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A lot of Africa was taken by the Germans, then taken by the allies.
Colonies are from the early 1800’s onwards.
So how does this relate to the Inner Sphere mid 3000’s onwards?
Apple meet Orange …. Orange meet Apple ….. (satire)
So this statement has no real validity ….
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Finding issues should be the prerogative of the gamers? Not even close ….. So in the end, the story doesn't matter, just stomping each other is.
If this is how you consider the game that that is OK with me.
However I have a vastly dissenting opinion – the game requires a rational historical development and if it strays I believe I have a duty to point these issues out.
There are just too many issues that require an explanation ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
05/28/20 12:35 PM
66.74.60.165
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Unconsciounable act. Like declaring war on an enemy to steal their worlds, killing thousands to millions?
Taking the life line of colonies and worlds by taking their only source of importing things?
Maybe entire regions? Releasing WMDs?
As the story says, it was not to put an imposter on the throne but to buy some time to keep the FC from losing even more to the clans.
If it had gone thru, it would have been considered the best idea to prevent realm deaths, or to put the FC one step closer to the first prince title.
And with this, why don't you talk about Comstar doing the same. WOB became a powerhouse for a short while from doing it. Yet no mention here. So one person's child died. How many others died or were kidnapped in the history of the IS? Or real life if you want facts and truths?
Now where do you find the printed rules of succession for the Lyrans in the game? I would like to read them.
Reagent would have probably been a better term, but it provides others with the means to ignore commands given out, as they are not the archon but a meer reagent.
The LC is still hobbled by social generals. Working with the FS helped change some of this, but in the end, they seemed to start reverting back to the old ways. Cronies being given favors for support of the archon comes to mind. The lower command kept more of the information going, which is the main way the LC had gotten as far as it did.
Now all the changes from the initial set up lasted how long before the clans obliterated the newer ways?
Then WOB?
But the statement was to show the initial set up was to provide a strength the hobble the realm. So it wasn't the clans that this was done, but the entire history of the game. So where is the surprise with this?
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ghostrider
05/28/20 12:52 PM
66.74.60.165
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No historical fact of a military unit superior in firepower, yet lacking numbers could invade and expect to not only take but hold that territory? Did history flee from your memory? This has happened more then a few times. Maybe the issue of the Brittish occupation of India was all just a story. What about the Mongols or even the Roman empire? They had inferior numbers, yet controlled far more lands then most. In the end, that number issue hurt them enough to cause their fall. Yes, it is not the only thing, but one that important to this discussion. And the superior fighting styles and warriors helped and is part of this as well.
The fact that the countries taken in the world wars no longer existed when they were conquered, then reconquered by those opposing Germany and her allies would mean those countries lands would belong to the victor. Yet they were given back, as the victors didn't want them. So no historical basis for giving up lands?
Explanation. Funny how you still haven't asked the developers to explain themselves. More likely they told you to leave them alone and blocked your requests for information. Or maybe they told you what they meant and you didn't like it, so are now trying to find someone sympathetic to your views. If the game has that many things that irk you and need explanation, then stop dealing with it. Make your own, and stick with it.
Saying they should have done your ideas, yet not providing what you 'require' from them makes the whole complaining sound like that is all you wanted to do. Complain.
As said many times before, the game has issues. The story line isn't so bad as rule issues, and the impact their changes had. For some changes, it negates a lot of things in the history. Yet without addressing the fact the rules need to be consistent and logical, not the contradiction that comes out saying this can't be done, yet the writers do it, needs to stop as well as some tech and construction concepts. I understand the issues of trying to keep mechs as kings, but they screwed that up by allowing vehicles to ignore heat from ballistic and missile weapons. That allowed the rise of the heavy weapon platforms that could carry 10 srm 6 packs and not worry a single bit about heat. Then they came out with the half weight missile launchers and what do you know. 20 srm 6 packs. And with the armor the carrier has, ammo limitations is not a factor. It will die quickly when hit.
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Requiem
05/28/20 05:03 PM
1.158.188.5
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Unconscionable act.
Yes, this is an unconscionable act, when you target the heir of the FWL and the son of its current ruler …. Hanse (Victor’s Father) initiated Operation Rat for a similar act ….
… and as a result of this Operation Gemini …. thus he (Thomas) declared war …. Killing who knows how many.
Then can I ask what how you would describe Victor’s action in ordering the creation of a double for Joshua Marik to disguise his death from his father Thomas Marik ruler of the FWL?
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… it was not to put an imposter on the throne but to buy some time to keep the FC from losing even more to the clans.
This is just Victor’s point f view, what is Thomas’ point of view on all of this – replacing his son so that Victor can one day control the FWL … in other words Victor is using Maximilian Liao’s plot (Operation Doppelganger) and he is not wrong, from his point of view Victor is committing an unconscionable act and he is not wrong.
Victor is completely ill suited to be the ruler of the FC as this demonstrates a complete lack of empathy on his part to and the FWL – there are always other political options.
In my Alt Universe: I would have sent one of my archeology units into the lost Hegemony worlds to find a lost (Historically significant) Medical Facility to obtain any lost Star League Medical Artifacts / Knowledge that could have assisted Joshua when he was sent to the FC for treatment. And yet nothing in the game world ….
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If it had gone thru, it would have been considered the best idea to prevent realm deaths, or to put the FC one step closer to the first prince title.
To be successful no one should have know of its existence – what it does show to the IS is that Victor (at this stage in his life) has the morals of Maximilian Liao - a very apt comparison.
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And with this, why don't you talk about Comstar doing the same.
… and yet ComStar got away with it! This is the difference, their agent was able to act with impunity ….
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Now where do you find the printed rules of succession for the Lyrans in the game? I would like to read them.
This is very easily supplied – go to the back of the First House Steiner Book – unfold the Family Tree then look at all the annotations against each of the family members indicating the line of Archons.
Parent to child …..Not from me to a distant relative no one has ever recognized ….
Reference can also be made to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_the_British_throne
What this shows is a complete lack of respect for the Battletech Universe when it was decided to put Adam in as Archon!
Then compare this with the issues of succession for the DC – Vincent, Ryuhiko and Chomie Kurita all assassinated – thus leaving 30th Century Theodore Kurita’s illegitimate Son’s (Franklin Sakamoto) granddaughter as the closest living member of the Kurita Family to assume the throne – Yori Kurita.
QED – In my opinion, TPTB staged a Coup on the Lyran State and people by appointing Adam as Archon.
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but in the end, they seemed to start reverting back to the old ways. Cronies being given favors for support of the archon comes to mind.
Can anyone prove to what extent this cronyism extended within the LAAF? Case in point 15th Arcturian Guards – Thorin at the Start of the Civil War. For every social officer – (who killed Archer’s Sister) - there is also a Felix Blucher and an Archer Christifori.
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So it wasn't the clans that this was done, but the entire history of the game. So where is the surprise with this?
????
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Did history flee from your memory? This has happened more then a few times. Maybe the issue of the Brittish occupation of India was all just a story. What about the Mongols or even the Roman empire?
Really? OK …. Mongols and Romans ….. both used military fear to keep the locals in line, a person could walk the breath of the entire Roman empire with impunity and say “I am a Roman Citizen” and such was the fear of reprisal by the Roman Military that they would unleash upon the people, if but one of their citizens was hurt, order was maintained …. Can we see this within the Clans (other than that of the Jaguars?) and even then how many partisan activities occurred within their OZ – to such a point it looks more like Ireland in the time of troubles?
Brittan Colonial India …. Trading rivalries / A weak and unstable states emerged as becoming increasingly open for manipulation by the great European powers of the time as the Indian rulers became dependent upon the Europeans to retain their Thrones (City States). Over time these rulers became Proxy rulers and with a massive military intervention they completely took control of the Subcontinent …. Can we see the FedCom state as being a weak and depending on outside militaries to maintain their powerbase circa 3050, thus becoming Proxy Rulers for the Clans as what occurred in India?
The Clans do not have any ability at garrisoning and maintaining order upon any IS world. Even the idea that fear would ensure their rule is a laughable idea – the age of Mongols, Romans and Colonial Brittan is over – as the social norms of the people the Clans are attempting to Rule are at complete odds with that of the social norms of the Clans.
A point overlooked by many – to put it in simple terms - it is just the Clans putting a flammable liquid on a fire and being surprised by the explosion when the people of the IS rise up to overthrow them.
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would mean those countries lands would belong to the victor. Yet they were given back, as the victors didn't want them. So no historical basis for giving up lands?
And yet they were given back when the victor demanded reparations from the vanquished – when did this ever occur just because the ruler of the realm just walked away for no reason whatsoever?
Where is it within the history of the IS that a ruler who took a vast area of space and just gave it up of nothing?
The establishment of the FWL – The Lyrans – can anyone make any sense of this?
The retreat of Lyran forces from what would become known as the Chaos March? Again does this make any sense?
Any others?
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Explanation. Funny how you still haven't asked the developers to explain themselves.
Funny how I have and never received an answer ….
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If the game has that many things that irk you and need explanation, then stop dealing with it. Make your own, and stick with it.
Question – what is my Alt Universe then?
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Yet without addressing the fact the rules need to be consistent and logical
Then may I suggest you re-write the rules for your At Universe and post them if you have so many issues with them?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
05/28/20 10:04 PM
66.74.60.165
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The use of Operation Gemini was a desperate act to try and keep the FC military in weapons to fight the clans. And it was NOT to replace the ruler of the FWL as you are so adamant about accusing him. For canon, anyways. The alt can have them both mud wrestle for the title for all it matters.
And yet again, it was started with Hanse. If the clans had settled down sooner, it was to be presented to Thomas, who isn't Thomas to begin with, that his son passed away. Katherine would definitely have used Gemini to put the fake on the throne. The books even said she thought it was a good plan, just poorly executed. But she needed the excuse to pull the LC out of the FC, to gather power to her whim.
Do you think the ENTIRE HISTORY of the IS wasn't involved in trying to find lost artifacts, like medical centers that dealt with regeneration of organic material and such? It wasn't just pure military, though that was a main goal. For the alt, a simple wave of the hand and shouting hocus poccus will make such a facility pop up, but in the canon, and for that fact, everyone elses game, it wouldn't happen. And here is the kicker. Thomas worked for Comstar, and they would more then likely have such equipment like this. So why did it fall to the FC to do this? Or maybe it was Comstar/WOB that cause the cancer, so to push the war to happen? So yeah. It is illogical that Thomas had to rely on the FC to give any hope to his child.
So the act is only bad when Victor does it? Doesn't matter if it was successful or not. Comstar put a double on the throne of the FWL. Is it any wonder why they sided with the clans? Oh yeah. That was on Walterly's watch as well...
Did the first circuit know of this?
The wiki for the Brittish line has nothing to do with the game.
Now, when, during that entire history of the archonship, was the leader held captive by a hostile force, and could not escape the world? So to remove the symbolic victory that would demoralize the LA, it was moved towards his cousin. You know, Nondi's child. It wasn't like Adam was from a 20th generation removed family branch, like you are trying to make it sound like.
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ghostrider
05/28/20 10:31 PM
66.74.60.165
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Let's dissect the social generals, in your example. The person that killed Archer's sister was nobility and would not stand trial for such an act. Archer was not a general. So he was a lower rank.
And with that. lower ranked officers could tell ranking ones what to do if the lower ones had noble ties. What is that? Democracy. I forgot... sheesh.
Comprehensive reading and can't see the statement of the entire history of the game is set for nerfing things so no one is supposed to gain an advantage over the rest. The clans were not favored as you suggest, but their weakness was not apparent, or was wholly struck upon.
Can we see that the concept of the Roman and Mongol empires gave back lands that were taken in combat, but were not retaken? They just left as they could not hold onto them, BEFORE they lost forces trying to hold them. Does this not count as stated? The question of why would an entity willingly give up lands that their soldiers died for comes to this explanation. Yet some how, it is suggested the clans are at fault for the creation of the FRR, and Katherine's pull out of the Terran March? Something sounds so wrong with this.
What sort of reparations was demanded from France when freed? All of north Africa when freed? China? Eastern Europe? I have not seen anywhere that says they got so much money and items from any state that was freed from German control. England could well have annexed France, ending the issue of which would outlast the other. Which by the standards you present, should have happened.
Now there is an assumption that causes the lack of understanding things. The giving up lands was NOT for nothing as you suggest. The FRR was a political ploy by the DC to make sure they had a buffer against the FC on a chunk of border, and the Terran March was so Thomas could bleed Victor and try to establish she was not going to side with him. Now if it is flawed, then I guess Katherine isn't as smart as you make her out to be. Your idea of her is only in your vision. Those that created her and the game thought otherwise. So they are wrong to do as they wanted to with their story and game? And again. How much money do you make writing for the company? None. That is because your concept does not work with those that own the game. You do not own it, you just own the rights to play with it.
Missing the point yet again. Continued saying canon is wrong and only your view is right is the basis of all the problems. You keep saying they need to change their game to fit your view. Again. Why? A majority are fine with it the way it is. You want to present the alt, do it without saying canon needs a rewrite in order to fit your views.
It does need better reconning done, and honestly, starting over with a full rewrite of all the rules, then go from there. Not the hackfest we get. The SL never really existed as an entity when the game came out. It was a magical land where miracles happened, and the IS fell into the dark ages when it left. NO advanced tech was found until 2750 came out. Even the Goliath's found in the 4th war were not advanced tech. Rewrite to fill in the holes is useless when the support under it won't hold up. And again. No numbers presented to even suggest the developers are wrong. And I know some of their figures don't work correctly.
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Requiem
05/29/20 03:20 AM
1.158.188.5
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The use of Operation Gemini was a desperate act to try and keep the FC military in weapons to fight the clans. And it was NOT to replace the ruler of the FWL as you are so adamant about accusing him.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions ….
This has NOTHING to do with Hanse and has everything to do with Victors’ lack of maturity and ability to rule.
It does not matter what Victor was attempting to do what matters is the consequence of his actions – Thomas, as a father and a ruler of a realm, took this action as a father and a ruler would, a betrayal of the FS and Victor (personally) against him and the FWL.
Thus proving that Victor’s inability to rule ….
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Do you think the ENTIRE HISTORY of the IS wasn't involved in trying to find lost artifacts
Snord’s Irregulars and their museum .. so yes the way it is written they are one group of a very few who are actively hunting for lost artifacts – and as written they are only looking on known inhabited worlds. No one is looking on worlds that were destroyed due to previous wars or were lost to time and were one part of the Hegemony.
There is no evidence whatsoever as to anyone looking into these lost worlds – otherwise TPTB would have created a map by now. This is why people like me are needed to create it for themselves.
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Thomas worked for Comstar, and they would more then likely have such equipment like this. So why did it fall to the FC to do this?
1st. By now Thomas (both real and fake) have gone rogue;
2nd. Do you really expect ComStar to heal Joshua – and in so doing letting the entire IS know that they have hidden away Star League information. This is the thin edge of the wedge if they did this. It would quickly spiral out of control with questions as to what else ComStar has hidden away; and
3rd. It goes against the tenants laid down by their Saint.
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So the act is only bad when Victor does it?
Yes, it only matters if you get caught.
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The wiki for the Brittish line has nothing to do with the game.
Disagree – it exemplifies exactly how all the Houses rules of succession work. Place their rules side by side with the all the Family trees and they show this is exactly how they operate!
Please investigate House Steiner Family Tree – https://www.sarna.net/wiki/House_Steiner#Family_Tree
House Steiner-Davion has not even been completed on this family tree as it would demonstrate the illegality of Adam becoming Archon ….
Then look at all the families and individuals between House Striner Davion and that of Adam Steiner (which is just a dotted line off the Simon Borge-Steiner line – showing that his line cannot even be accurately defined!) All of these people come before Adam within the rules of succession ….
Then ask yourself where Trillian comes in …. As we now shift back to the original and true House Steiner-Davion Line …. Once more …
So yes it is far worse than anything that could be considered.
And in so doing show that TPTB staged a Coup on the Lyran state!
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The person that killed Archer's sister was nobility and would not stand trial for such an act
Please re-read – he did stand trial and was found guilty – the issue was that Katherine, as a favor to his father, commuted his sentence and even gave him back is rank, as he was busted to the ranks. And even though he obtained his rank back – His CO made sure to make his life within the 15th a living hell.
So what does this say about the state of social officers within the LAAF?
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Can we see that the concept of the Roman and Mongol empires gave back lands that were taken in combat,
They just left …..? The fall of the Roman empire occurred over a vast period of time and involves many complex issues ranging from economic, military, sociology / cultural, religious, alliances, miss management of the empire over many centuries . Trying to compare this to the whim of Katherine at a single point in time when her military is at full strength, there are no internal issues within the Lyran State cannot be considered a viable subject.
As for the Mongols – Once the Khan died there was no true line of succession so that within one generation his sons had all but destroyed the Mongol empire.
Try again.
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What sort of reparations was demanded from France when freed?
WW2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_reparations
There are also other sites that can be found using a search engine.
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The FRR was a political ploy by the DC to make sure they had a buffer against the FC on a chunk of border
Usually a buffer can last more than 5 minutes in battle – the 20 year update (3050) has the FRR at 16 Regiments, how long would they last if FedCom decides to conquer them?
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and the Terran March was so Thomas could bleed Victor and try to establish she was not going to side with him
and I believe every elephant house has a cat flap in the door (satire)
1st. The Terran March is Lyran – by right of the Wedding Toast;
2nd. What ruler would give up a vast realm who has a massive GDP and produces a massive Tax income stream just to have a go at her brother?
This does not hold any validity …..
This is why I create MY ALT for me and for those who consider what I am doing is correct. All gamers should have the right to create their own version of the Battletech Universe and they should be allowed to post (if they decide they want to) so that we can all appreciate a different view of the game. Thus we are all richer for having many different scenarios, rather than just the one provided.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
05/29/20 11:35 AM
66.74.60.165
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Nothing to do with Hanse? He was the one to originally start up the operation. It was something that was made near the end of his life. How is this not involving him?
So a ruler doing what is needed in order to keep his people alive and free, is a horrible thing to do? So breaking up the FC wasn't a horrible thing to do? It only created the situation where a power mad ruler was using all sorts of horrible things, like starving people because they didn't just jump to their knees and worship her. Vanity is the word for it.
The person that was acting as Joshua did it on a volunteer basis. They were not brain washed or anything of the sort. It was very much a standard operation done in an intel operation. The only difference is the person who was the target ruled another nation. Sorry. There is a second difference. Victor was the one ultimately ordering it.
And what do you know. It helped consolidate Thomas's power.
There were thousands of teams out looking for SL things. Snords was a CLAN unit that KNEW where a good chunk of them were. So they were not searching for them, but locating and removing anything that wasn't found yet.
No map to where they are located at, and then say you have to make them up? Really? Saying a GM needs to create scenarios for their players, yet when everything is printed, it prevents that very thing from happening. And if there was a map, that would mean they were found.
This also suggests that you have not read everything. The whole Galtor campaign arose from looking for an SL stash. The computer algorithm said there was one likely on Gator. The system was pretty accurate so Hanse decided to create a fake depot. Then found a real on while the DC attacked. Hmmm. No evidence? Companies hiring people to explore around to find them is no evidence? I guess comprehensive reading means seeing things that aren't printed and ignoring things that are printed.
Thomas went rogue, yet allowed WOB to find shelter in the FWL?
And since Comstar had 50 regiments of SL mechs stored on Terra they used for spreading the Comguard around the IS isn't an indication they had access to League facilities, also considering Terra was home to the ruling family? The FS knew Comstar tried to shut down the research on the Helm Core, permanently. That would say that Comstar was protecting their own information hold. This would also extend to them killing anyone that was making break thrus in HPG tech.
And Thomas would have known they had it, and would have extorted them to save Joshua. Also, he would know things like where to go and whom to talk to. WOB agents would be more likely to have done so without telling the first circuit. But that involved actually thinking logically.
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ghostrider
05/29/20 11:54 AM
66.74.60.165
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Thomas did get caught. And Hanse decided the people of the FC would benefit more from not exposing him to the rest of the IS. With this, I would think Comstar had replaced more people in the past as well. Just minor nobles. Just enough to gain access to things. As I said last post. This is pretty standard for intel operations. Sleeper agents that assume the cover of someone killed in foreign lands but unknown to have died.
The argument was there is no example of a nation giving back lands taken in combat. So saying it doesn't apply means you didn't even want an answer, just wanted to complain about something. This is why the asking for clarification isn't what you are looking for. It looks to be a way to complain things didn't go the way you wanted to. How or why and don't want accept the facts shows this. There is no example statement gets answered, and then said it doesn't apply.
And what are land grants for nobility? The giving away lands to another family for services rendered. Some in perpetuity. Some even become nations.
By the way. Remember that the colonel was removed and the killer got his position. Oh yeah. So the social general got moved to the position from killing someone and being freed and promoted from ties... Yeah. No indication that it was returning that way.
If the FC moved to conquer the FRR, would be in complete violation of their way. The DC, CC, and FWL were long time foes. The FC saw the FRR as a way to slow down the DC, as it would cause the same effect for the people to slow down any DC advancement in that region. So in effect, it was a buffer for them as well. Not removing all their forces, but the FC could shift some to make the hit on the DC more lasting the next time they did it. This is a military concept.
If the Terran March was making so much money, why couldn't it hold off the CC? I can understand the FWL worlds wanting to rejoin the FWL, but the CC worlds would have been in, NO, had been, resistant to become CC again. It also needs to be asked why the region was so poorly defended when they were with the CC in the first place? And why the FWL didn't take the money making area as well. It would have went beyond revenge for Joshua, but it would have strengthened the FWL. Maybe even finally have the CC down for the count. Just a barrier for them.
Other then to give Andurien more power for taking worlds.
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Requiem
05/29/20 02:12 PM
1.158.188.5
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Nothing to do with Hanse? He was the one to originally start up the operation. It was something that was made near the end of his life. How is this not involving him?
Who gave the orders?
Victor was provided with information in a timely manner, in that Joshua was dying and there was nothing the Doctors could do to save him. So rather than return this child to his Father Victor gave the order for him to die 'alone' – so what did happen to his body? and then he substituted the real Joshua with another child – a child who must have gone through some kind of indoctrination to turn him into Joshua’s replacement. Then we must ask what happened to the real Joshua’s Doctor’s, Nurses and support staff who knew Joshua had died and had been replaced – what happened to them?
So who gave the orders for this act of utter barbarity? …… the buck stops with Victor and Victor alone. He gave the order, he ensured it was implemented. And when caught he must be held responsible for Thomas’ and the FWL’s righteous fury!
…. This clearly shows that Victor is unfit to rule!
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So a ruler doing what is needed in order to keep his people alive and free, is a horrible thing to do?
There are ALWAYS other political alternatives! In choosing this as the only way is unacceptable!
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So breaking up the FC wasn't a horrible thing to do?
Katherine was correct – however, rather than just succeed the Lyran half from the Fed Com she should have had the courage to demand Victor’s complete abdication from the FedCom Throne!
At this stage Victor should have had to abdicated (such was the severity of his crime)!
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Vanity is the word for it.
Far from it – Victor committed a diplomatic incident by allowing the death and replacement of a royal – a child with diplomatic immunity – a child of another realms royalty.
Accountability where is it at this stage? Abdicate Victor for you have proven that you are incapable of ruling the FedCom!
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The person that was acting as Joshua did it on a volunteer basis.
Joshua Marik (3046 or 48 to 57) – thus 9 or 11 years of age – show me a child of this age that can provide consent?
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It helped consolidate Thomas's power.
A matter that holds no relevance to the discussion, what matters is what occurred to Joshua and who ordered it.
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There were thousands of teams out looking for SL things.
Proof please – Book and Page number.
Question – how did Snord know about the location of Artwork, jewelry and many other artifacts that were found by him that have no military value?
Question – where is there a map of all the lost / dead worlds? where is there a map of all the 600+ systems of the former Terran Alliance from 2086-2315? Where is there a book that describes these 600+ systems – they must have had vast Jumpship manufacturing capabilities at the bare minimum – and if they had massive populations they should also have had all the trappings of a modern society? They also should have the remnants of the battles that occurred – that ultimately destroyed many of these systems – where are these descriptions?
So yes, as there are none I will make my own.
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The whole Galtor campaign arose from looking for an SL stash.
Didn’t Hanse start the battle by creating a fictitious rumor about finding a hidden Star League Cash – and it was only later on that the rumor become truth? Thus it was an accident? A one off occurrence that in no way proves the existence of any mass units that were created for the sole purpose of hunting Star League artifacts.
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Thomas went rogue, yet allowed WOB to find shelter in the FWL?
Prior to this did either the real or the fake obey the orders of the First Circuit of ComStar?
Did Thomas (fake) ensure that the Helm Memory Core copy the FWL had was destroyed – or did he ensure that it was used for the betterment of the FWL? and act that completely goes against the First Circuit’s orders.
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Thomas did get caught.
During the Jihad era …. And prior to this it was Victor who knew not Hanse (due to the Gemini issue)
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Remember that the colonel was removed and the killer got his position.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Felix_Blucher
Sorry, no this did not occur – Blucher remained in command of the 15th – Fisk was so badly injured at the end (by Archer) he returned to his home world – he reappears on his home world with the Irregulars on Odessa when Archer was attempting to recruit them for Victor.
So the professional remains in place the social officer was sent home never to be able to operate a mech again – his body crippled.
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If the FC moved to conquer the FRR, would be in complete violation of their way.
Really? The entire premise of all the succession wars is about real estate and who owns it – so how can this be considered against some mythical code.
In all reality the FRR was so small (when you take out the mythical idea that the Lyans would give up their worlds for the creation of the FRR) that the Lyrans and the DC could just step over the FRR and attack the DC / FedCom space.
So no slowing down of either of their militaries attacking each other at all!
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If the Terran March was making so much money, why couldn't it hold off the CC?
Really? What happens to any area of space when all the regular forces are removed and only the militia remain – whist at the same time every planet declares independence and Victor does absolutely nothing to bring them to heal?
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It also needs to be asked why the region was so poorly defended when they were with the CC in the first place?
Look at the number of forces each house has been assigned to at that stage? By now the game has become laughable. If the 20 Year Update was still in force this could never have occurred.
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it would have strengthened the FWL.
Correct. - but the point is mute Thomas Marik should have died in the explosion – thus Joshua should never have been born.
Isis Marik should be on the throne of the FWL at this time frame.
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Maybe even finally have the CC down for the count.
In all reality the CC should have been dead and buried by this time frame.
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Other then to give Andurien more power for taking worlds.
In all reality Andurien should have still been an independent state with the MoC.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (05/29/20 04:50 PM)
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ghostrider
05/29/20 11:52 PM
66.74.60.165
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Unlike Katherine, Victor did not have the staff killed. They were allowed to continue their work, on the premise they would not reveal anything.
Unfit to rule because he did what he felt was needed to keep the FC strong in the face of the clans. You suggest Katherine was more fit to rule, but the history or future says otherwise. The alt can do whatever, but it is NOT the only viable solution to the canon line. Then again, saying the developers had no experience with most of what they were doing, it seems someone is lacking the experience themselves. Some of the arguments brought up weren't even based on what was said. The facts were wrong, but then comprehensive wishes tend to do that.
The double solution was not the only way that Victor had thought on, but it was the most likely to buy time without costing so much more. It failed, as operations do from time to time. But then if you had read what was printed, you would know this.
You really think putting a double up to help keep the FC strong was a crime, yet ordering the full assassination of a ruling family isn't? Kidnapping children to force others to work with them isn't? Starving people that decide your stealing a throne doesn't make you the rightful ruler isn't a crime? That's right. Kill one person and your a murderer. Kill 10,000 plus and your a conquerer. One verses millions.
Diplomatic immunity? They were a child from an enemy realm. One that the LC portion would love to be rid of. They should have cheered him on for trying. Oh wait. That would be logical, as it would mean removing the FWL from the LC's side. Even help them remove the DC after the clans were dealt with. Maybe even helping remove the clans as well.
You ask how did Snord know where to find artwork and such? Maybe the clans intel agency that was working the IS at the time called Wolfnet? I am sure he had other intel working with him as well. Some was known to be in certain stashes the clans knew about and tracked it from there. Oh yeah. Snort was a clansman ordered to find the stuff and given resources, including funds to do so.
As for your great investigative reading, how about you actually read the books. There were a lot of expeditions sent out to find SL caches. Maybe the Black Boxes should be considered to begin with.
Better reread the Galtor book. There was a high probability that a SL cache was on Galtor. He blew it off as the DC own the world for generations. But decided to use that as a way to trap the DC forces. And what do you know. They found more then a few salvage wrecks from battles on the world. And with that, the crews were still looking for the base. They didn't expect to find one, but did.
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ghostrider
05/30/20 12:06 AM
66.74.60.165
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An area of space that has forces suddenly pulled out of it tends to employ mercs when they have the funds. Outreach is very close, so the merc center should have been busy. And with this, if those worlds hated the CC so badly, why would they need to be brought to heel? That makes it sound like they wanted out. The worlds that did were former FWL worlds and even then, it is questionable if they wanted Marik back.
So did the alt fix the issue of Katherine pulling out, as you said she would never do that? So the entire timeline beyond that is history. Well even before then, as the CC was obliterated. So why even complain about it now? It doesn't exist in the alt.
Given all the losses the CC had during the succession wars, and how small it was to begin with, it should never have seen 3025.
Andurien being an independent state with the MoC isn't being independent. It would require a lot of world be taken to connect them, and that would have those regions around them fighting to prevent that. And that includes FWL regions. Otherwise, that 'alliance' would be nothing more then St. Ives was. And the FWL would not tolerate that.
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Requiem
05/30/20 05:56 AM
1.158.188.5
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Unlike Katherine, Victor did not have the staff killed.
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There were a lot of expeditions sent out to find SL caches.
Proof required – Book and page number – otherwise these statements are just unsupported.
There is no point in discussing Operation Gemini – suggest agree to disagree and leave it at that! We will never see common ground on this topic.
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Snord’s Irregulars
Documentary materials that were taken with the exodus within vast computer core – to which he used to extract information as to possible sites containing items of interest.
All Houses should also have a vast information archives – and yet there is NO evidence of any house sending out their own units looking for lost treasure.
As for Galtor – even though there was a high chance of something being there – no one actually thought it could be true, that is until someone actually fell over it and found it. Thus the find was due to luck only!
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if those worlds hated the CC so badly, why would they need to be brought to heel?
Because they declared independence from all the Great Houses! – a situation that makes no sense whatsoever as sooner or later one of the Great Houses will send forces in to conquer these worlds.
The entire Chaos March is a questionable scenario! And can only be considered when the FS’s military has been reduced to 1/3rd its original size as per the 20 Year Update.
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Given all the losses the CC had during the succession wars, and how small it was to begin with, it should never have seen 3025.
It wasn’t until after the succession war did the CC’s military fall to such reduced numbers it becomes a primary target for destruction.
It will take until 3039 for the FS to recover from the Succession War and the Interdiction to be ready to kill of the CC once and for all.
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Andurien being an independent state with the MoC isn't being independent.
Refer to the FWL Map the IS Map plus the Canon information re this situation. It is more than achievable.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
05/30/20 12:16 PM
66.74.60.165
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Snord was part of the Dragoons, and part of their mission was to find and secure know caches and other SL sites. The story says he was so draw to the stuff, that he disobeyed orders in order to preserve some found near a battle. That is what caused his separation from the Dragoons.
With this, finding a new cache tends to be a lucky find. The easy ones were found and looted.
The Savanha Master came from one unit that found a cache. The stockpile of fusion engines he got, he made a combat vehicle with. Von Luckners are another unit that is found, as no manufacturers are known to make them.
Comstar is yet another that actively searches for them. They tend to take any found by smaller organizations as well.
Houses do send out their own units. But it seems more mercs are sent out, as they are more expendable as loyal house troops.
When the LC pulled their troops, and the FS couldn't get any, or not enough, troops there, they declared independence to hopefully avoid the coming invasions. Sadly, the entire situation was a successor war. A lot of worlds looked to expand their power by attacking other worlds. Which cause them to retaliate. Some formed pacts. In the end, the chaotic attacks and general lack of cohesion with all, gave the CC the chance to retake worlds. The FWL was organized and didn't have the issue the CC had with being low on troops. Then the CC sympathizers were egging on the infighting with the march.
With your love for numbers, the FS and FWL had more then enough to destroy them long before 2029. And looking at the border of the original CC during the original SL, not much changed, despite the pounding the CC had taken in the wars.
Oh yeah. Read the wiki on Hanse Davion. It states that even though he desired the position of first lord in the SL, he was smart enough to know that was not going to be possible, but hoped he could set up his descendants to take the position. That means the first lord title for himself, was not the top priority for his 'warmongering'.
The concept of a strong FS, meant the people would be safer from enemy incursions.
Also, on your own concepts, why would Hanse give away lands his troops would die on, to the LCs future leader? The first idea would be that his line would rule over it all. But that in itself is hollow.
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Requiem
05/30/20 06:45 PM
1.158.188.5
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Snord’s Irregulars – the only unit actively searching for last caches and lost SL artifacts.
ComStar – reacts to issues, they eliminate scientists they do not have an active group hunting for lost artifacts.
Houses and contracts to Mercenaries – when was the last time any contract came up for hunting lost artifacts?
The Chaos March
If you are not aligned with a great House you are just easy prey for whomever wants to conquer that area of space.
Victor had given up on this area of space by not sending in any available forces to restore order – it was inevitable that the CC would establish a plan to conquer the chaos march.
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With your love for numbers, the FS and FWL had more then enough to destroy them long before 2029.
Counter productive – the CC have shorter logistics chains – by the time the FS did destroy the CC their military would have been mauled – opening them up for a counter attack by the DC.
The only way to effectively destroy the CC is if both the FC and the FWL attack at the same time – and this is all but impossible as the FWL at this time could not get their act together.
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That means the first lord title for himself, was not the top priority for his 'warmongering'.
No this means that creating the correct stage so that Victor could finish the job was his top priority!
Thus Killing of the CC was the best step to achieving this! This then leaves the FWL and the DC where the FC have a 2:1 military gap when compared to the total of FWL and DC military units.
If handled correctly Thomas should have been receptive to a wedding between ISIS and Victor – thus leaving DC alone!
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why would Hanse give away lands his troops would die on, to the LCs future leader?
Your creating an alliance with the Lyrans – this will require a degree of give and take – plus Hanse did make a promise of the CC when handing his slice of their wedding cake to his new wife ….
The former CC now conquered by the new FC belongs to the Lyran part of the FC state.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
05/31/20 03:36 AM
66.74.60.165
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Amazing what the wiki has to say about Katherine and Victor. Wow. It basically says what I have been saying for a long while. Katherine was not a ruler you wanted to have.
She became an ally of Ryan Steiner and Galen Cox's lover. She then contracted an assassin to kill her mother, which he did by means of a bomb in 3055.
Archon-Prince Victor instituted Operation Doppelganger, a plot originally hatched by his father to replace Joshua with a double. Victor never planned on using the double as a ploy to institute a pawn into the succession of the Free Worlds League, he simply wanted to be sure that the needed refit packages would continue to flow into the Federated Commonwealth.
During her reign as Archon, Katherine reorganized the administrative divisions of the realm, allowed "social generals" to make something of a comeback (thanks in part to her willingness to promote individuals based on political orthodoxy as opposed to military competence), cashiered many officers who opposed her ascension, and clamped down on individuals who protested against her rule.
Katherine then set up another deal with Sun-Tzu Liao. In exchange for keeping her troops out of his war to reclaim the St. Ives Compact, Sun-Tzu supported Katherine in her bid to succeed him as First Lord.
Katherine used whatever means necessary to attain power. Rather than rely on military acumen as most of her family did, Katherine chose to build an image as a peacemaker in direct contrast to her soldier brothers, an image that she shed once she joined Clan Wolf. She wielded assassination as a political tool and was responsible for the deaths of Melissa Steiner, Omi Kurita, and Morgan Kell's wife Salome Ward, and also ordered an attempt on George Hasek II. She continually sought more and greater power and craved power for the sake of having it. Her internal monologues in the novels seem to indicate that she genuinely believed herself to be the most suited of her family to rule, although it seems likely much of this belief was self-rationalization. Katherine appears to have little actual care for anyone other than herself; even the men she professed love for, she was willing to discard or sacrifice in her drive for power. She also demonstrated distinct signs of pettiness and cruelty, regularly using her nations' resources to persecute anyone she deemed an enemy. This started with political opponents, but eventually came to include those staying neutral in the conflict between she and Victor, and even those she deemed "insufficiently loyal" (i.e., who supported her but harbored reservations regarding her policies). As she progressed on her pursuit of personal power, she began to show greater and greater signs of megalomania, and she found it difficult to maintain her image as a peacemaker.
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ghostrider
05/31/20 03:45 AM
66.74.60.165
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The ComStar Explorer Service or Explorer Corps was formed by Primus Adrienne Sims in 2959 to publicly chart and catalog the worlds beyond the Periphery, but covertly to locate lost Star League caches and Kerensky's lost Exodus fleet for ComStar's benefit. In 2982 the ECV Fortitude and Discovery set out on a 1,600 light year trip to the Orion Nebula.
Guess you got this one wrong as well. Comstar DID look for SL caches. Which is probably how they got so many mechs,
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Requiem
05/31/20 07:57 AM
1.158.188.5
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Comparison …
Victor is not a ruler you wanted to have.
Operation Gemini is never mentioned, where he allowed the death of Prince of a Realm who was in his care to achieve his political ambitions and when discovered resulted in a war.
He did not protect a section of his realm when it attempted to break away (Chaos March).
He continually spent more time in the field rather than governing his people from the Capitol world (Napoleonic Tendencies) – and as a consequence he did not have the intelligence unit he required to keep tabs on the universe and everyone of importance within it.
He utilized a captured assassin to enact his personal vengeance - rather than using one of the states assassins. (Inept decision made more with hie heart than with his head).
By removing the security detail from this assassin he was able to escape and as a consequence this assassin killed the love of his life (which makes him partially responsible).
He was supposed to prepare his people for the second war with the Clans – during the 15 years of peace – and yet he did absolutely nothing when it came to rebuilding his military for this purpose.
His meddling allowed Sun-Tzu to become First Lord of the Star League ….
He has a ‘me first’ attitude when it comes to his choice of lovers – rather than thinking of what was best for the realm,
He entered into a personal relationship with the daughter of his most mortal enemy. (of which he sired an heir with her).
Due to his personal actions with Omika his Duke of the Draconis March did not trust him and was actively plotting insurrection to put his brother Peter on the throne. (Of which could have destroyed the FS from within!)
Rather than protect his realm he decided to leave the Inner Sphere for over a year (Huntress) – and as he did not adequately protect his youngest sister (Yvonne) from his oldest sister (Katherine) he lost his realm to her.
He started a civil war that decimated the Lyran and Suns military allowing the way for the Blakist forces to enact a devastating ‘Jihad’ throughout the IS.
He did not allow Katherine a fair trial – and just gave her to the clans – an act that would have far reaching political issues and proves he has no regards for law.
At the end of the Civil War he started he did not provide the evidence to the people of both the FS or the LA as the guilt of his sister Katherine. Thus how can anyone believe his reasons for starting the war if he did not provide the proof? Thus for many his actions have no validity and for all time people will debate why he did what he did? A great way to rule when you do not trust the people you are supposed to serve and make their lives better.
He allowed the Federated Commonwealth to be permanently dissolved - and because both his brother and sister were both basket cases both realms suffered for their inept rule – even in 3150 both realms are suffering due to this inept decision.
He made no comment when his bother gave Throne away to Adam – rather than defend the rights of his nephew as the legitimate heir to the Lyran State – a completely illegal act on the part of both his brother and Adam!
He allowed Stone to create his little empire which cause more harm than good.
Oh yes Victor is a wonderful ruler ….
At least Katherine understood how to rule as she is a true Machiavellian, Victor was completely incompetent from beginning to end when it came to anything that was not related to the military.
ComStar Explorer Service or Explorer Corps – and within the IS? They are actively trying to work out what happened for Kerensky as they realize He and his decedents are a threat to ComStars Primary Goal: to Turn the IS into Blakean Theocracy.
Thus they tried to follow the breadcrumbs left by the exodus fleet ….
Though there is one question – why didn’t they start their search where Kerensky exited the IS?
What where they really looking for within the periphery above the Lyran / Draconis space? Did someone forget where Kerensky existed the IS?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (05/31/20 08:08 AM)
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ghostrider
05/31/20 12:16 PM
66.74.60.165
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Allow the death? There was no choice. Joshua was dying wiether or not anyone wanted it. So instead of having a brain dead child on life support for the rest of is life, which he would never again see the FWL, they let him die. It was not something like beating him to death or some other form of torture. Not even Katherine has the power of death to have prevented it.
Keep grasping for straws. The use of a non state assassin for personal gains? Melissa and Omi sound familiar? Oh yeah. It was the assassin Katherine hired. Running with a 'state' one could be traced easily or even discovered before the job was done.
Also, the state ran fine with him in the field. He had people in position to get him information he needed to act upon. It isn't like Katherine went out for several months to find help, with the Wolves of all people. The very ones that continued to occupy FC/LC/LA worlds. As stated by you, they could not be allowed to continue to do so. Hmmm....
With this, a leader does make choices with their hearts in stead of pure logic. This choices made like this are what defines a leader. The logical, though immoral choice of say a virus outbreak would be to quarantine the area, even if it means all there die, which maybe be due to starvation or even bombing everything living. Hammer Down protocol I want to say the name of it is.
Another half fact? The assassin did not kill Omi due to the assassins personal vendetta. Katherine paid him. And the security detail wasn't removed, the assassin killed the ones around him and escaped. I believe he was also the Dancing Joker, which killed the Crater Cobras as well as several people on the one world, including the governor.
Another half truth statement. Meddling did not happen. He decided to deny Katherine the chance by voting for Sun Tzu. He was the last to vote, and didn't even talk with the others about it before hand. So where is the meddling? No back room deals. No bargaining for it.
Rebuilding the industries was one of the first steps. This includes more ship yards and such. Which Katherine ended up using to take out forces that were not fanatical towards her. And the reformed SL went after the clans before the end of the truce and removed the clans invasion plans at that era of time. I would figure he would have started with others, had he had the political backing to do so. The FWL only agreed to it, as it was the DC, which mean the worst offenders, the Jaguars, were the target. Had it been the Falcons, I doubt they would have allowed it. The Bears would probably have been agreed upon, had Katherine not seized the throne.
Like Katherine taking Vlad as a lover was a good choice? And that could be said of Omi, as it wasn't a pressured relationship to get together. But in this case, Victor's impulsiveness did create issues. But had they been able to wed, it would have destroyed the game balance, and allowed the IS to remove the clans as well as form a more permanent Star League. If not for Katherines meddling, that may well have happened. And yes. She was actively making sure they could not even think of going that far.
Oh yeah. Didn't Katherine's child by Vlad destroy the LA?
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ghostrider
05/31/20 12:33 PM
66.74.60.165
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I liked this one. Did not give Katherine a fair trial. What sort of fair trial did she give to anyone that stood in her way. She removed them, with a lot of times permanently. She stole the throne so he was stupid not to just kill her. And give her to the clans? She wanted that instead of being held in a comfortable house arrest. And with this, Vlad was going to start another war that he could not afford to fight at this time. The LC would have been destroyed at that time, as well as possibly reigniting the clan push into the IS.
He is partially at fault for not realizing Katherine's ambition, and Yvonne suffered for it.
Best recheck the time line on the civil war. It has started before he agreed to leave it So like it or not, it was going before he got into it. The only 'bad' thing with him getting involved is it stopped Katherine from ruling until she dies. So if that is the horrible pain inflicted, there is something wrong with the outlook here.
The proof of the civil war was the fact that she 'allowed' loyalists to attack and destroy others in the FC. She actually ordered some of them to teach the rest a lessen. Once the actual truth gets out, she was not the saint she wanted to be portraited as. Or what you are trying to do.
The FC was dissolving when Katherine started attacking her own people that did not drop to their knees and worship her. She drove the last nail in the coffin as she was trying to gain the power over the LC portion of it. It was not able to be fixed after that.
As he was no longer involved in the running of either realm, any statements of Adam being named as Archon would have been an outsider meddling with LA politics.
As time did not allow it, how are you so certain Victor would not have become the leader the FC needed? You keep trying to show all the flaws, yet none of them, even combined, was fatal without Katherine's pushing it. Had Melissa lived longer, she could well have taught Victor more of what he needed.
Now for starting to look for SL equipment and caches, it would be smart to try to follow the exodus trail, as they would probably have infighting going on, or just having to leave behind equipment in order to open up space for the people in the fleet. The idea of seeing if the SLDF was dead was a good idea as well. But this is trying to deflect from the fact Comstar WAS funding searches for SL bases. Even though it isn't necessary to have comprehensive reading abilities, this would also include inside the IS.
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Requiem
05/31/20 07:33 PM
1.158.188.5
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Allow the death? – Comprehension of statement – he used the death of a Prince of the Realm, whom was in his care, to advance his agenda rather than returning the dying child to his family – Can we say Max Liao? Can we say Richard III? On both yes we can ….
Keep grasping for straws. – Hardly, he should have ended his days within a Black site – this just shows Victors’ inexperience and his inability to make sound judgments – at this point he is acting more like a petulant child than the ruler of a realm.
If he wants someone dead then all he has to do is give the name and outsource it to his state team …..
the state ran fine with him in the field.- Really? Since when has a state ever run smoothly with its lord in the field? ….. How many documents requires his signature per day …. How many committee meetings must go slow because they need his imput prior to moving forward ….. How many budgetary issues now must be placed on hold because they heed his ratification …. Plus when reading the Warrior novels and Hanse and his intelligence operations – with Victor in the field how difficult does this make it for them (especially when this organization was involved in a shadow war with Comstar – thus if they use ComStar to keep Victor abreast via HPG they can now read all the messages (once decrypted) or they use Black Box tech. and now all the messages are slow and must be typed rather than in video format …..
The entire FC / FS Government requires a person on the Throne and definitely NOT playing Mechwarrior – didn’t Hanse tell Victor of his brother and what his fascination with being a MechWarrior would lead to?
Thus we have a ruler who wants to me a warrior and place his desires first before that of the state …. Oh yes he is a wonderful ruler!
a leader does make choices with their hearts in stead of pure logic. – The very bad ones yes they do!
Another half fact? The assassin did not kill Omi due to the assassins personal vendetta. - If Victor had not removed his original security chief do you think he ever would have been able to escape? The answer is NO – and once he escaped he could then accept new employment contracts – employment contracts he never could have accepted if he was locked away within a deepest darkest Black site or better yet with a bullet in his head! So yes, Victor really does not know what he is doing here.
Meddling did not happen. – Really? Did he or did he not sign the constitution of the Star League which enabled the First Lord to put SLDF military onto St. Ives? …. As stated previously where are the Lawyers? Victors inability to understand constitutional Law brought about how must stupidity? Plus it would have been far better to have Katherine as First Lord – extra work that would have kept her out of trouble where he could easily watch her …. Thus showing he lacks being devious to achieve a desired outcome. Not good in a ruler when his father was called “The Fox” for a very good reason – have a look at what his father Hanse did to his brother in Law – Michael Hasek in allowing him what he thought was his idea!
Victor can never be compared to that of his Father when in comes to being cunning and devious – Katherine can!
Rebuilding the industries was one of the first steps. – Have a look at the next TRO – how many were Omni and how many were single weapons desigh – and what was one of the main reasons why the IS lost so far – the Clans use Omni Tech? ….. incompetent ruler – The Quartermaster Corp puts out a tender with very specific guidelines as to what they want – guidelines that asked for old designs rather than modern designs – thus hobbling the military for the next 100 years – Incompetency on a scale as yet unseen by any rational military.
The decision to just attack the Jaguars – How is victor, the ruler of a vast realm, supposed to explain to his people that their military will be assisting the DC and not the LA? Really?????? As stated previously they is only ONE political solution the removal of ALL belligerent Clans, the freedom of ALL IS worlds – anything less shows that the leadership is completely lacking – they had 15 years to reform the military for this exact scenario and they wasted it! Ow yes Victor is a great leader!
Like Katherine taking Vlad as a lover was a good choice? – who within the IS knew of this alliance?
Victor and Omika were a known fact that was discussed openly upon every Rag Magazine within the IS (except DC).
So yes, how would the Sandoval’s of Robinson react to this news considering their pathological hatred of the DC?
Thus Victor is antagonizing his own Duke ….. when will he every reaise his happiness does not come into it when you are the Ruler of a Realm – The Realm must come first. Thus a political marriage to enhance the realm’s security is required …. Not a schoolyard infatuation!
Didn't Katherine's child by Vlad destroy the LA? – and who was Vlad’s father? ….. Victor Steiner Davion!!!!!!!
Did not give Katherine a fair trial …. As a ruler your laws must be seen by the people to be fair and above reproach …. A point that Victor completely ignored. He MUST go before the people (as he did when he layed out his reasons for starting the Civil War) and explain his evidence …. To do otherwise is just Victor stating that he is above the Law and he can do whatever he believes is right. Thus many would now think he is a Megalomaniac and a Tyrant! Great qualities in a leader of a realm?
Vlad was going to start another war that he could not afford to fight at this time. – It is his sister – He fights!
To do otherwise just proves that he is not fit to rule. He should have jsy shot Vlad dead on the spot and dumped his corpse at the foot of the Wolves Dropship – stating that he did not appreciate the request. In all probability the sa-Khan would have been grateful to be rid of him for his un-Clan like behaviour – thus she now Khan!
Thus proving that victor has no real sense of family honor.
He is partially at fault for not realizing Katherine's ambition, and Yvonne suffered for it. – Not partly …. Fully at fault, Yvonne is a basket case!
The only 'bad' thing with him getting involved is it stopped Katherine from ruling until she dies. – he was not attached to ComGuard he was exiled – if he wants to start a civil war then he must also take the Throne and reform the FC anything less shows that he is not ambitious …. And a lack of ambition is deadly in a ruler of a realm …. Another point in favor of Katherine as her ambitions were vast.
she 'allowed' loyalists to attack and destroy others in the FC. – Really? They revolted on their own first – she assigned units to put them down and WAS SEEN TO BE on the defensive – she and her forces were being attacked she was not the aggressor - so what was she supposed to do – orbital bombardments? … again the media shows that her hands are clean where as Victor and his cronies were the ones who initiated the Civil War for their own political agenda.
The FC was dissolving when Katherine started attacking her own people that did not drop to their knees and worship her. - Military Purges have been used for centuries to identify dissidents and remove them – thus stabilizing the realm in the long run. This is a valid political tool for centuries dating back to the time of the Greek States.
She drove the last nail in the coffin as she was trying to gain the power over the LC portion of it. It was not able to be fixed after that. - ……. Sorry no, I do not find any evidence to support this.
As he was no longer involved in the running of either realm, any statements of Adam being named as Archon would have been an outsider meddling with LA politics. – Really? Sorry but no no matter what he will always be a part of the FS and LA politics – even when he is dead and buried people will use his name to justify their political ambitions.
If he does not stand up for the right of law for his nephew – something he said he did with Katherine in starting the civil war when he was the CO of the ComGuard shows that he is a hypocrite – he is in the exact same position he has no choice but to put the interests of his nephew first ….
how are you so certain Victor would not have become the leader the FC needed? …. The majority of his supporters were expecting him to take the throne once again …. And both his brother and sister were both basket cases …. And any other scenario destroys the FC permanently!
Had Melissa lived longer, she could well have taught Victor more of what he needed. – Only if Melissa joined him on campaign and was willing to be carted around in his Mech for there is no way he was leaving the military to be with his Mother (something Katherine was doing very well!).
eave behind equipment in order to open up space for the people in the fleet. – this should have been worked out in advance prior to leaving the IS as weapons of war are not required (en mass) when you are going to start a massive new colony – civilian equipment is required not military!
Comstar WAS funding searches for SL bases. – Outside the IS, yes – as for within the IS this would have tipped their hand as to their grand plan to make the IS into one Blakean Theocracy. So no work within the IS – too dangerous if they get caught. Also how about the Great Houses – nil units assigned to looking for SL caches – unless they just fall over it.
…. this would also include inside the IS. – Proof please … book and page number ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
05/31/20 09:12 PM
66.74.60.165
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You do know that Joshua was dying in 3050-51? You know. Where the Dragoon meeting was going on? He lived 6-7 years longer then expected if he stayed within the FWL. And what did Katherine do? Send thousand to millions of people to their deaths by openly accusing Victor of this. But then the facts you have comprehended weren't correct. This is why understanding is beyond reach.
Now that you said it, the sending in a team to kill anyone he wants is wrong. If that were the case more then a few people would be dead, such as Theodore, Sun Tzu and Thomas to start with. Anyone that gives rise to speaking ill of him or his rule would be dead. Even Katherine couldn't just send assassins to take out her enemies, even though she did send a few. You claim Victor needed justification to remove his sister after she started acting like a tyrant, yet NOW they don't need anything? Oh yeah. Assassinations are ok, but putting a sibling under arrest isn't? Do you see the entire logic fail in this?
Yes. Please tell us how many documents have to be signed by him, instead of those he put in charge while out? And make sure you tell us how many documents Katherine signed in those months she went to the enemy(clans) to find help to remove her brother. Hanse dealt with intel reports because he was more into the intrigue then others. That is why he was able to do the entire 4th war set up without others knowing what was up. Victor tends to run as the straight forward warrior. There are more then a few times that isn't wise, as a ruler has to do things that aren't as straight forward. Katherine might have been a good ruler if not for the fact she didn't care about anyone but herself. So she took the attitude that she was a diety, and all should worship her or suffer.
Didn't Hanse tell him what everyone knows? Any combat, and in the cases of rulers, any time, can be your last breath. The fact that the IS was so fascinated by war made it seem like the best rulers were war heroes. He believed that by putting himself in harms way, he was protecting the people that served under him. Misguided or something else is possible, but in the end, that is how he believed.
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ghostrider
05/31/20 09:33 PM
66.74.60.165
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Bad rulers make choices with their heart? So instead of feeding the poor, he should send them all off into battle so they die instead of placing a burden on their realm? Maybe even take some of the enemy with them? Instead of going to a diner hosted by a noble, the ship he would use should not be sent to deliver food and other supplies to an area that was hit by a natural disaster? Sounds like Katherine's MO. I see why you think she is the greatest now.
Guessing real definitions don't exist. Meddling by casting his vote for someone KATHERINE put up for nomination is meddling? There was nothing done that could even remotely be considered meddling. There was no political favors changing hands. No back room deals. He was the last to vote. He choose Sun Tzu over his sister. How is that meddling? He did not encourage others to vote for Sun Tzu.
And you forget the backroom dealing Katherine had for Sun Tzu. She wanted to destroy Victor so badly, she made a deal that the LC would NOT interfer with his little war. Yeah. I can see where Victor was the bad guy here. Not Katherine for trying to set it up, nor leaving the St. Ives Compact to die without any sort of a legal fight.
How is Victor to tell his realm that the Star League had decided to hit the Jaguars, instead of the Falcons? He should have withdrawn from that farce at the moment that went into a vote. The entire FC should have just left the SL. But wait. Katherine didn't say oppose it. She was fine with it. It was the LC that was invaded, yet she did nothing. Hmmm.
Cunning is not the big reason someone should be a ruler. Otherwise, Max Liao should have been the First Lord years before he died. And Victor knew he was not able to even try to fill his father's shoes, so he didn't even try for this aspect. He left the intel for those that were trained for it.
At the time, Katherines affair wasn't known. When she went into the clans, everyone knew. And the forces of the clans involved knew.
When did Katherine lay out the evidence Victor killed his mother? Oh yeah. NEVER. Where was the loyalty to family when she had her mother assassinated? Everything and more you bring up can be said of the evil Katherine was doing. So keep showing just how poor of a leader she really is.
Where was Victor happy with not being able to marry Omi? They could not ever really get together after the Dragoon meetings. He kept from seeing her as it would destroy the FC. And antagonizing the dukes? What did Katherine do? Oh yeah. She tried to starve them out, as well as send in the military to take them down when the starvation wasn't working. Assassins were sent as well. Also, you said that a ruler can assassinate anyone they choose. So how is it you have to justify putting a relative in jail for usurping the throne, but yet can kill anyone you want with state snipers? The logic doesn't hold.
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ghostrider
05/31/20 10:06 PM
66.74.60.165
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Not sure where you got the information Vlad's father was Victor. Vlad was born before Victor was even alive. Vlad was also a crusader before the clans even got into the IS. So where is this information at? It is absolutely wrong.
What does not wanting a fight with the Wolves have to do with fighting his sister? The wolves came in after the fight was over.
Let's see. Victor was raised on Tharkadd entirely, while Katherine went between the two. It is doubtful Victor spent much time with Katherine, and that those watching her should have picked up on the fact she was power hungry. So where is it in real logic that Victor was a trained psychologist o find this out? And spending all that time in the field would have made it even more unlikely he could spot this.
The media spin suggesting the units that refused to acknowledge her as ruler says they were the attackers, when in reality, they were being destroyed by the 'loyalists'. She ordered her units to kill those that did not bend a knee. Where where their trials? Oh yeah. The truth would have come out, and that would have started showing Katherine's true agenda. So they had to be snuffed out quickly and quietly. Which didn't happen. So the civil war started brewing.
So complain about the lack of troops the FC has in the future, then look at your purge statement. Do you not see the outcome of such issues? Those that you purge do not just lay down and die, when you start shooting at them.
Of course you don't see Katherine being the one to destroy the FC. She only sabotagued everything she could to destroy him. By the time she got into a position to really do much, it was already too late to stop the split. The ploy worked to make people take sides, and a CIVIL war broke out. Where does this not suggest the FC was doomed to split apart? Very few civil wars end with a realm uniting.
Funny. His child would have had more right to the throne then Vlad's child. First born of the first born of the first born. The succession rites of history. Or did that some how get lost while you were pushing it? It doesn't support Katherine's child. As the clan trueborns don't get married, the child of Vlad's would not be legit to sit on the throne, if Victor's child isn't.
Victor could well have been taught by Melissa to become the leader people expected. Twisting the paragraph by making it sound as they were not related isn't going to work.
Victor asked his mother to stay on a while longer, as he felt like the clans needed to be stopped. Once that happened, he may well have settled down to run the state. But we will never know, since Katherine made sure that wouldn't happen. So in this case, yes. The writers did hobble the FC.
You mean the SL had all these ships fixed completely before they left the IS? That breakdowns never occurred in route before then? Simple virus making some ships unfit to continue, and would have to be destroyed? Even a misjump or failure in components you don't have parts for never happens? Leaving behind troublemakers doesn't happen? You want realism, but yet don't want it. Even exploration parties that could not return to the fleet before they jumped out would be another scenario. Not covering the right angles in things, it would seem.
Not sure why you think everyone knows what everyone else is doing all the time. Someone might see Comstar searching worlds? You mean the cover story they had wouldn't cover them searching worlds in secret? Or that anyone caught watching them disappears, and no bodies found, except around worlds in the deep periphery, where no one will ever go? The fact that they have their own jumpship fleets means they can go where and when they want. And until the book came out saying they existed, no one had every reported seeing those ships? Bad retcon or good stealth?
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Requiem
06/01/20 05:37 PM
101.185.79.245
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Reading on comprehending what is written …..
Joshua’s Death – who used his heath for his political ambitions by substituting the deceased child with another?
Where there are assassins there are also security details to keep them alive. That said it usually takes something really bad to request the assassin option. Loot at the IS history the assassin does not pop up all the time – proof of Ryan’s guilt was available – proof of Katherine’s involvement was not there!
So who is acting like a tyrant when he has no proof only the supposition of proof?
And who was never able to obtain proof – only supposition?
And who used that lack of proof to exile his sister to the Clans rather than put her on trial or at any time try to prove to the people of the IS the guilt of his sister as to the charges he leveled against her when he started the Civil War?
Where is the proof of Katherine’s Guilt? None to find thus how can we just believe what Victor said is the truth?
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Katherine might have been a good ruler if not for the fact she didn't care about anyone but herself. So she took the attitude that she was a diety, and all should worship her or suffer.
She is not Kali Liao so prove it!
When the majority of any ruler assumed the Throne of their Great House – did they remain with a military unit on the front line or did they return to the Capitol World and begin working for the best interests of their people?
For those that remained in combat what was their legacy?
For those who returned to the Capitol world what was their legacy?
On the whole – those that returned completed more and made their realm more prosperous ….
Comprehension – Yes bad rulers make bad choices with their heart rather then with their head – allowing emotion into the equation just clouds your decision making as a ruler. As for the rest of this paragraph - sophistry!
Comprehension – The Star League Articles of Association – how can they allow anyone to use the SLDF to conquer a rival realm (or an area of space) whist you are the First Lord at the same time – not once but twice …… and who signed those documents into existence? ….. so, where are the Lawyers?
The entire premise of attacking just one Clan is as believable as putting a cat flap in an elephant house! This is really an all or nothing situation which was completely lost to all involved.
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Cunning is not the big reason someone should be a ruler.
Beg to differ, being cunning is a prerequisite for the job if you want to keep it more than 5 minutes or you want to get anything of any meaning done without becoming the lapdog of someone in the shadows pulling the strings.
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He left the intel for those that were trained for it.
As the ruler once the information is presented the decision as to what to do next is theirs alone! So how good id that information going to be if it is going to take who knows how long to reach you (as the ruler) and at the same time ComStar gets to read all these security missives because you want to remain with your unit on the front lines?
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Where was the loyalty to family when she had her mother assassinated?
Prove it – there is no proof that any court of law would convict. If there was Victor would have used it, it is only circumstantial. As a citizen of the FC (and not as someone reading the books with access to all comings and goings) where is the proof – This is just taking all the available information and making it fit – so from the point of view of a person on the street without any access to this information how do you believe Victor when he has never allowed the information to come to light and all he will say on the subject is trust me I know …. And then he kicks his sister into the Clans, the most hated group of individuals until the arrival the Jihad era – Look at how this is viewed by the woman / man on the street first before making wild accusations.
The facts are …. Victor NEVER supplied proof to Katherine’s Guilt as there was never any to be found – Second, Victor did hand over his sister to the clans in order to exile her for life ….. so how are the optics of this to pan out when you are just an ordinary citizen?
Victor and Omika – Being the ruler of a Realm is not about being happy – it is about putting aside your own personal wants and needs for the betterment of the Realm.
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She tried to starve them out
Proof required – when did Katherine try to starve out her Dukes? And when did she attack her dukes other than when they declared for Victor? …. There is none!
Vlad – thinking of Alaric Wolf.
The Wolves demand Katherine be handed over to them ….
Victor obliges and gives her up ….
What is the optics of this move to the people of the LA and the FS? How will they take it? …. One sibling exiling another to the most hated and despised society within the IS …. Of course there is never going to be any blow back for this transgression!!!!!!!! (comedy and humor)
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So where is it in real logic that Victor was a trained psychologist o find this out?
As stated previously – one of the attributes of a good ruler is the ability to read people – determine friend from foe – determine who wanted to use you …….
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Those that you purge do not just lay down and die, when you start shooting at them.
And yet a purge could also re referring to a transfer to a dead end position within the military …. Until they retire out of the military ….
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Very few civil wars end with a realm uniting.
American?
And Katherine did both – she broke the real apart and she re-forged it – It took Victor and his declaration of Civil War - and his decision to put his remaining two siblings on the thrones to permanently destroy the FC. So it was Victor not Katherine who ultimately destroyed the FedCom.
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Vlad's child
Alaric was created in a test tube and an iron wormb – don’t you think that every House would have made these children unable to be part of the rules of succession? Otherwise I could just go and get a piece of DNA from a past ruler and create my own legitimate ruler via DNA. The rules that allow clan warriors to comete for a blood name also ensure they can never be part of a line of succession within the IS.
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You mean the SL had all these ships fixed completely before they left the IS?
No, but every cargo deck on every Dropship should have included everything that was necessary to establish a new colony for the entire population of everyone who was leaving with Kerensky - and as for military equipment – only the barest minimum should have been taken with them.
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Not sure why you think everyone knows what everyone else is doing all the time.
You can bet that everyone of importance is being watched by every other spy agency …..
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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