Karagin
04/03/15 11:43 AM
70.118.139.48
|
Code: BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout * CUSTOM WEAPON
Type/Model: Cheetah VLTH Tech: Inner Sphere / 3060 Config: Hovercraft Rules: Level 2-FA, Standard design
Mass: 24 tons Power Plant: 90 Alexandria Turbine Fusion Cruise Speed: 97.2 km/h Maximum Speed: 151.2 km/h Armor Type: Fibrolyte Armorscale Standard Armament: 1 Tolgren Superlight Light AC/2* 2 Tolgren Arms Machine Guns 1 Holbar Arms Limited Sunbeam 2 Medium Laser Manufacturer: Ferrous Metals Combine Location: Karaganda, Terra Communications System: Dalban StarLink II Targeting & Tracking System: Talon BattleScape
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ==Overview:== The Cheetah VLTH can be found in the New Terran Republic second line military units. The Cheetah is more often used to fight in the delta and swamps of the worlds under the control of the New Terran Republic against bandits and other insurgent forces.
-------------------------------------------------------- Type/Model: Cheetah VLTH Mass: 24 tons Construction Options: Fractional Accounting
Equipment: Items Mass Int. Struct.: 15 pts Standard 0 2.40 Engine: 90 Fusion 0 3.20 Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 1.60 Cruise MP: 9 Flank MP: 14 Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00 Cockpit & Controls: 0 1.20 Crew: 2 Members 0 .00 Lift Equipment: 0 2.40 Turret Equipment: 0 .45 Armor Factor: 72 pts Standard 0 4.50
Internal Armor Structure Value Front: 3 20 Left / Right Sides: 3 15/15 Rear: 3 10 Turret: 3 12
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass -------------------------------------------------------- 1 Light AC/2* Turret 0 45 2 5.00 1 Machine Gun Turret 0 100 2 1.00 1 Machine Gun Front 0 100 1 1.00 1 Medium Laser Front 3 1 1.00 Miscellaneous Equipment Body 1 .25 -------------------------------------------------------- TOTALS: 3 7 24.00 Items & Tons Left: 2 .00
Calculated Factors: Total Cost: 633,810 C-Bills Battle Value 2: 419 (old BV = 261) Cost per BV: 1,512.67 Weapon Value: 110 / 110 (Ratio = .26 / .26) Damage Factors: SRDmg = 7; MRDmg = 2; LRDmg = 0 BattleForce2: MP: 9H, Armor/Structure: 0 / 3 Damage PB/M/L: 1/1/-, Overheat: 0 Class: GL; Point Value: 4
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
ghostrider
04/03/15 07:08 PM
76.89.120.217
|
Is there some reason why you used 2 half ton bins for the mg ammo? Was it to avoid losing it all if one spot is taken out? Or did they change using the same ammo bin for mgs?
|
Karagin
04/04/15 01:12 AM
70.118.139.48
|
It was split up since one gun was in the turret and the other was in the hull (aka the front) it can be combined if you want it to be, not really anything that causes the vehicle major issues.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
ghostrider
04/04/15 03:41 AM
76.89.120.217
|
Just figured a half ton that might be useful elsewhere. As you said, no issues, just curious.
|
Karagin
04/04/15 10:10 AM
70.118.139.48
|
I think a variant might be in the works.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Drasnighta
04/05/15 11:18 AM
198.53.98.65
|
Decent mix-it-up Hovercraft for its weight... Bit of Range, little bit more punch as it closes.... I'd like it, Give it a try in a week or so when my Campaign starts.
CEO Heretic BattleMechs.
|
Karagin
04/05/15 12:18 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Cool. Let us know how it does.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
04/05/15 07:48 PM
76.7.225.145
|
With a little redesign you could probably install a large laser in place of the LAC/2, giving you some serious main gun power.
|
Karagin
04/05/15 10:40 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Yes that could be done, but the vehicle is not a front line unit, as the fluff clearly states, so going that route changes the mission profile and ends up recreating existing vehicles.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
04/05/15 10:47 PM
76.7.225.145
|
The large laser is a level C technology, compared to the LAC/2 being level D technology. Ignoring the oddity of using a tank with a fusion engine and calling it a second-liner, the laser design would actually make the vehicle look the part of a second-liner, with simpler tech level and more rugged, refined, and cheaper equipment.(LAC w/o ammo costs the same as a LL.)
Edited by Retry (04/05/15 10:48 PM)
|
Karagin
04/05/15 11:40 PM
70.118.139.48
|
I am sorry but what is Level C? Is that a new grading system for things? I tend to keep things simple with my group, if we want to use it, and all agree, then we use it.
As I said, I did not want to re-invent or remake other vehicles, the LAC2 offers the vehicle a punch for what it has faced in the past, at least in the scenarios and such, which were armored cars and mostly infantry and boats. Again the Cheetah is not built to go slugging it out with anything bigger then it and putting a Large Laser on it would have it changing roles from a counter-insurgency vehicle to a raider and that role is better filed with other vehicles easily found in the TROs. The idea here is for a vehicle that fills a niche role, verses being a jack of all trades.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
04/06/15 01:39 AM
76.7.225.145
|
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Technology_Rating
That reminds me of Availability rating, with large lasers being C/D/C on SL/SW/CL and LACs being X/X/F. C being uncommon, D being rare, F being "unique" or extremely rare, and X simply not existing. Replacement parts for the LAC will be much harder to find, which is of course not a good thing for a vehicle that's probably not going to have access to the best equipment replacements.
In order to fill a 2nd line role, redundancy and greatness is key. Low-availability and high-complexity equipment such as light autocannons does not fit the bill. The Large Laser would.
And out of curiosity, which vehicle exactly would it be remaking with such a weapon change?
Edited by Retry (04/06/15 01:40 AM)
|
Karagin
04/06/15 02:57 AM
70.118.139.48
|
Thanks, we don't use that for our games, so it has no bearing on the vehicle's weapons.
As for what fills a second line unit, I will stick with the LAC being more available, easier to repair and maintain for more worlds and units then a larger laser would be. But thank you for your opinion on the matter.
The Lighting comes to mind as does several others, again Retry, the Cheetah is not a slugger, it a take the fight to the bad guys in the swamps and rivers, not go chasing off after the Dasher or Panther or Shadow Hawk. That is not it's role. I think that is where we are having an impass on many things, you don't seem, this is based on your comments, to believe units have roles in this game and that everything should be built to duel it out with everything else to some degree. However, I on the other hand believe that units have different roles and build things according to that belief.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
04/06/15 04:34 AM
76.7.225.145
|
Quote: Karagin writes:
Thanks, we don't use that for our games, so it has no bearing on the vehicle's weapons.
As for what fills a second line unit, I will stick with the LAC being more available, easier to repair and maintain for more worlds and units then a larger laser would be. But thank you for your opinion on the matter.
A rugged, effective early 25th century weapon, widely utilized on a number of platforms including still being put to good use today(both within and without variants) with at least 17 models on 21 will be more available than the LAC that was only introduced in 3068 with 4 models on 4 planets... how?
A common weapon relatively well known and understood by 3025 will be more difficult to repair than the canonically higher-tech light autocannon... how?
Quote: The Lighting comes to mind as does several others, again Retry, the Cheetah is not a slugger, it a take the fight to the bad guys in the swamps and rivers, not go chasing off after the Dasher or Panther or Shadow Hawk. That is not it's role. I think that is where we are having an impass on many things, you don't seem, this is based on your comments, to believe units have roles in this game and that everything should be built to duel it out with everything else to some degree. However, I on the other hand believe that units have different roles and build things according to that belief.
The Lightning is not a second-line unit, it's a recon/dragoon hovercraft. Many of the variants, including the base variant, have high tech that would be out of place in most second-line units. The CX-3 specifically comes to mind, having pulse lasers, GECM, sponson turrets and (you're going to love this) stealth armor all on one platform. The closest you come to low-tech on the Lightning platform is the RL variant that still has tech rating E and availability rating E/F/D AMS devices which aren't exactly from the stone age.
For the "effective but easy maintenance" role of a 2nd-line SFE vehicle, the large laser completely stomps the LAC/2 in both parameters. The most plausible role I can genuinely see is to get the other side to build these to sabotage their garrison forces with complicated, uncommon, not-particularly-effective weapons.
|
Karagin
04/06/15 10:41 AM
70.118.139.48
|
As I said, going with the idea of the large laser changes the role, which is not something I see happening with this vehicle given the role it is intended to be used it. If you want to swap out the weapons feel free to do so.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/06/15 12:10 PM
172.56.10.164
|
How did you come up with an engine mass of 3.2 tons? Engines come in half ton lots. The shielding using FA can be in quarters.
I don't have any BT books with me in my semi right now so I cant look up what a 90 fusion engine should weigh.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
|
Karagin
04/06/15 12:35 PM
70.118.139.48
|
It is a 24 ton vehicle.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
ghostrider
04/06/15 12:40 PM
76.89.120.217
|
Just curious, but why can't a support vehicle use a fusion engine? Also, why would you want to shorten your range by switching to a large laser from the lac? Technically the ac 2 variants are great for fort busters as the range allows them to pick at buildings at ranges the defenders can not hit, with the exception of artillery. Which if every building you have has it, then you definitely don't have much reality in your games.
If you want to argue, why not put a ppc on the tank? It has better range and punch. Might have to work on it, but it can be done. Or use ermls.
It's fine the way it is. If you want to use the vehicle with a large laser, that is your choice. Suggest it, not demand it's change and argue it has to have it.
Now I do admit a hovercraft being a support vehicle is weird, but there is nothing saying it should be loaded with mls or such and make strafing runs.
And Retry. There have been several units that you argued should have a few things changed. I believe Karagin was saying they did not want to change them to your wishes. You can do that yourself, but suggest, not argue the idea.
|
Cray
04/06/15 06:53 PM
67.8.171.23
|
Quote: Karagin writes:
I am sorry but what is Level C? Is that a new grading system for things? I tend to keep things simple with my group, if we want to use it, and all agree, then we use it.
Tech levels were a system introduced about 10 years ago to assess the tech level in terms of technological sophistication instead of standard/optional rules.
Tech A and B are 19th-20th century stuff; Tech C is 21st-24th century stuff; Tech D is Age of War/Succession Wars stuff; Tech is Star League / 3050+ Inner Sphere stuff; Tech F is Clan.
LACs depend on advanced LBX technology, and are thus Tech D. Large lasers are an older technology.
Quote: As I said, I did not want to re-invent or remake other vehicles, the LAC2 offers the vehicle a punch for what it has faced in the past, at least in the scenarios and such, which were armored cars and mostly infantry and boats.
Fair enough. Sometimes the higher performing weapon isn't the best weapon for the vehicle's role. Personally, I think it's interesting you're trying out the LACs. If they have a place, it's on secondline vehicles.
Speaking of secondline vehicles, Retry mentioned fusion engines. Well, depending on the era and faction fusion engines would be used on any vehicle. The only odd time for fusion engines in secondline units would be in the 2860 - 3060 era Inner Sphere.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Cray
04/06/15 06:55 PM
67.8.171.23
|
Quote: Retry writes:
A rugged, effective early 25th century weapon, widely utilized on a number of platforms including still being put to good use today
This conversation is getting a bit circular. Perhaps it's time to either find some other feature of the Cheetah to discuss, or move on to other threads.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|