Cray
06/17/02 06:29 AM
64.83.29.242
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>Maybe. But just look how much is wasted in American society. The amount we spend on styrofoam containers for our hamburgers could run the entire Clan military on an annual basis.
I doubt it. Clans have a military about 1/10th the size of the US's. At the same price-per-soldier, that would mean the Clan military consumes about $30 billion annually. Would you show the figures indicating the annual US consumption of styrofoam fast food containers amounts to $30 billion?
>We spend more money on LAWYERS than the Clans do on 'Mechs and Men combined.
The comparison doesn't work. Paying lawyers just results in redistribution of wealth that the lawyers will put back into the economy. Clan combat results in permanent destruction of labor- and resource-intensive war machines.
>Only if such an uneven match can be gained. You and I both know this leads to wasteful escalation
That depends on the timing and when both sides call the war quits.
>Actually, it is. You just destroyed a significant portion of your isorla: Combat machines, fine warriors, etc. Valulable properties, to say nothing of the inevitable collateral damage.
What, Clans fight other Clans in the cities now? Collateral damage amounts to some churned up, uninhabited landscape.
As for isorla, that doesn't necessarily offset my losses from traditional Clan combat. The savings of orbital bombardment or overwhelming numbers are more likely to do so.
>As opposed to...securing a source of oil your country doesn't even need?
The excuses the US finds to go to war aren't necessary wise ones, either. However, at least the US got something that will be eventually useful out of the deal. Oil is certainly more useful than bragging rights.
>Keep in mind that Clan "Warfare" is just TRAINING. Any excuse to fight is a good one
No, most excuses for the Clans to fight are goofy ones predicated on the goofy plan to conquer the Inner Sphere, leading to a hypocritical amount of waste.
>*NOT* a waste. The most realistic training in the world is no match for actual veterency
This presumes the need for veterans. The SLDF in exile was isolated from military threats. It needs police and SAR groups, but there's nothing to fight around the worlds settled by Kerensky.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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novakitty
06/17/02 11:59 AM
209.242.100.230
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"The comparison doesn't work. Paying lawyers just results in redistribution of wealth that the lawyers will put back into the economy. Clan combat results in permanent destruction of labor- and resource-intensive war machines."
Wrong, most of a mech can be salvaged after a typical battle. Only in the case of a reactor explosion is the entire mech completely lost, and even then, the raw materials are just redistributed later on the same world where the combat occurred.
meow
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Cray
06/17/02 12:47 PM
64.83.29.242
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>Wrong, most of a mech can be salvaged after a typical battle
I didn't say mechs could not be salvaged. I said the money given to lawyers goes back into the economy. Mechs, salvaged or new, remain unproductive money sinks.
And please remember what a destroyed mech means. You don't salvage spent ammo, ablated armor, shot-up gyros, destroyed engines, or evaporated cockpits. Put some numbers on those expenses. Millions of C-bills when the engine and/or CT is destroyed, hundreds of thousands of C-bills for a new cockpit, 30K to 60K C-bills for a ton of LRM ammo...all spent in seconds of combat. You might get a salvaged mech for a new one, but it won't be inexpensive.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Greyslayer
06/17/02 05:44 PM
137.172.211.9
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Actually the destruction of the CT means the unit is just scrap. You would have to get a new CT to be able to rebuild the mech.
I am curious as too how people can equate the same expenditure in the US compared to Clan expenditure. The military in the Clan is a 'life', from birth to death quite otten that is all a person knows. The resources expended in bringing up personnel from that early a start is hard to compare to a system where someone joins at ages 17 to 43 (I think). Currently the US does not expend alot of 'solid' military resources (units such as tanks and aircraft), compared to clans who can lose Warships, dropships and aerospace fighters all in a single engagement. Pro-active combat vs Ammo expenditure militaries are hardly a effective comparrison.
Greyslayer
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Nightmare
06/18/02 10:46 AM
194.251.240.107
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>>Wrong, most of a mech can be salvaged after a typical battle.
But many clanners consider salvage barbaric, don`t they? Dishonorable enough that they might not want to touch a mech that`s been repaired with salvaged parts, since it`s less than pure.
OK, I got that idea from reading the briefings etc in MechWarrior 2 way back when I used to play it. They said that Natasha Kerensky even ordered her forces to use salvage in order to keep fighting, implying that it was a very unpleasant thing to do.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Cray
06/18/02 11:27 AM
64.83.29.242
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No, I think Clanners are quite hot to salvage what they can. They've got the whole concept of Isorla (sp?), getting battlefield loot. And omni-tech makes it easy to get good parts off a mech. In their hypocritical way, the Clans are quite good about reducing waste.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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