Editing BattleTechWiki talk:Project Characters

==PeopleFictional or People?==
I've noticed that the fictional people aren't currently categorized as "PeopleFictional", but rather just as  "People'. It appears that the real people (Weisman, Keith, et al) '''are''' being categorized as "PeopleReal". Do we want to migrate all of the "People" to "PeopleFictional"? If so, I'll do that shortly. [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]] 12:01, 19 September 2007 (CDT)
:This has already been discussed, albeit briefly, at [[BattleTechWiki:Administrators#Category:People]]. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 15:43, 19 September 2007 (CDT)
::We should probably change the Project to be "People" and not "PeopleFictional" then. [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]] 16:54, 19 September 2007 (CDT)

== People & Minor Characters ==

I didn't think to bring this up here until after I had started it, but I've created a category called [[:Category:Minor Characters|Minor Characters]], defined as those who have supporting or lesser roles in the BattleTech universe. I've linked to it (and back again) in the [[:Category:People|People]] category.

Question: might this be a good time to re-name the People Category to "Major Characters"? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:54, 15 August 2008 (CDT)
:I created lists instead of leaving individual articles intact. Do you want to reopen the discussion of how to handle minor characters, Revanche, so that we have one, uniform way of handling them; or are you seeing them as a little more than one-line blurbs, but not quite as much as we might expect for a full article? --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 10:31, 16 August 2008 (CDT)
::I'm not ready to take a stand on what (officially) defines a Major or Minor Character. As [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobellis_v._Ohio Justice Potter] famously stated about obscenities: "...I know it when I see it...," and generally I read what we have about a person and decide if they were a one-shot (or similar) character, that will probably not recur '''or''' is probably not well known by either BT fans nor other in-universe fans. The way I envision it is: if they make a movie about the story that concerns this character, would the actor get any billing on the movie poster? As far as stub articles go: no, that doesn't figure into my reasoning. If someone started a stub-article on [[Victor Steiner-Davion]], [[Stefan Amaris]] or even [[Natasha Kerensky]], I'd still recognize that they are major characters (with currently minor articles).

::Scaletail, I vaguely recall a discussion on lists versus articles (for minor characters). I personally would prefer articles on everyone, '''but''' I acknowledge that sometimes that would just not make sense. For example, in my impending article on the [[Brotherhood of Randis]], I would like to link to each member ever identified in source material. However, as the writeups for many of those minor characters would be summed up as, "He died on [[Antallos]], defending the Brotherhood's efforts to unearth a [[Star League]] cache," I can see why someone would much prefer seeing all names together and no such write-up being necessary. Sorry, I ramble. Is there a policy on this, yet? Or are we free to do both methods? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:35, 16 August 2008 (CDT)

::Hey, I know I'm new, but in my opinion, designating characters 'Major' or 'Minor' would seem to result in a lot of splitting hairs. For the moment, however, when I add a new bio, am I required to use this classification? [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]]

:::I enshrined it at [[Policy:Notability]], but there's nothing stopping anybody from reopening the discussion. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 07:21, 17 August 2008 (CDT)

::::(took my discussion there) --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 10:10, 17 August 2008 (CDT)

::::Scaletail, as to Major Characters: if we assume that Minor Character articles are not forbidden (and should be removed), how do you feel about re-naming the Peoples category to Major Characters? I'd be glad to change the individual articles, if you agree. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 10:10, 17 August 2008 (CDT)
:::::It works for me since it will be much better. If we do that, then we also need to fix the sidebar. Since we will have no less than three categories for people (fictional or real), maybe we should switch that out to a short article that explains the system? --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 14:26, 17 August 2008 (CDT)
::::::I can definitely do that, and thanks for reminding me of the Sidebar. To give this some time to percolate (as I believe Frabby may have some issues with the concept of dual (fictional character) categories), however, I'll be sure to add a note to the current fictional categories, bringing Users' attention to the real people category, as well. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:10, 17 August 2008 (CDT)

:I've made some additons to the [[BattleTechWiki:Project_Biographies#Categories|project page]], in accordance with the recently passed [[Policy_Talk:Notability#Allowance_for_Additional_Character_Categories|proposal]] on additional character categories. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 11:29, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

== Standards for Character Articles ==

A proposal was made and passed regarding developing standards for character articles, to include deltion in certain cases. The consensus was that the Project Biographies team would helm this process. Details: 
{{quote|'''Consensus''': Proposal passes with the following directions:
*The [[BattleTechWiki:Project Biographies]] team discuss and institute guidance as to what qualifies as an acceptable character article, to include formatting, referencing, categorization, dates and whatever other standards the team feels appropriate, with an emphasis on requiring references.
*Character articles that do not meet these standards are to be flagged for either a) improvement or  b) deletion.
*Currently, character articles can only be deleted if the subject character cannot be verified by source.
*Character articles that are flagged for deletion have a minimum period of time (advertised in the tag) that must be allowed before the deletion can occur.
*The Editor assuming responsibility for the deletion of a character article will also assume responsibility for adding that character to the appropriate minor characters list (if the deletion occurred for a reason other than verifiability of the character's existance). 
*The standards developed by the Bios team, after an undetermined test period within the team's scope of articles, will become a basis for use throughout BTW.}}

This is a big project. Based on the above directives, I propose breaking this guidance project down into several categories for discussion, discussing the merits of each, instead of a broader picture. I'll take the liberty of creating those areas of discussion now.

===Formatting===
I define formatting as to what sections are included in an article. The basis I'm using right now (pre-discussion) is that an article has the following:
*image - if one is not available, then no allowance should be made for it on the page ; a size standard needs to be set
*intro - one to three lines to include: 
**summarizing why this person is notable (not to BTW, but who they are in the 'verse). 
**the character's name '''bolded'''
**life dates immediately following the name. Formats would be in years only (if dates are known, they should be in the history section) and in the following styles: (b. 3009 - d. 3071) and (b. ? - d. ?).
*History - with child-sections breaking up the person's life into eras, if an appropriate amount of data is available on the character
*Personal Description - more than just a physical description, this can describe people's perceptions, the character's attitude or habits, hobbies, equipment, etc. Basically anything known that rounds out the character but doesn't fit into the History section.
*Source Analysis - this would be an optional section. It can be used to describe the validity of a in-universe source (such as doubtful or debatable information from another shady character (such as [[Starling]]), an intentionally shady source product (i.e., ''[[Interstellar Players]]'') or even something that may fall outside the official CBT canon, but is still from a licensed source (such as from ''[[Ronin! (Scenario pack)]]'') or the animated television show). This section can be done from a analyst's perspective (ather than a biographer's), with acknowledgement that some data might be doubtful. It is not to become a discussion area, but refined on the talk page (if necessary). In otherwords, it speaks from one voice.
*Notes - for anything either that doesn't fit into the History or Personal Description sections, or the adding Editor is unsure of how to add. If the latter case, following edits should be made to incorporate the material into appropriate sections. There should be no Trivia section; Notes is the closest that should come to this concept, but should itself be minimalized.
*See Also - this section provides links to other articles that are major sources of further information. The section should not be a repeat of ''every'' wikilink already evident in the article.
*References - should be included in every article, to prime the need for references. More details below, but the tag '''<nowiki><references/></nowiki>''' should be added immedately under the section title.
*Categories - also discussed below.

Anyhow...that's what I see as necessary for formatting. Anything that I'm missing, or that needs to be included or debated? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:07, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

:Is this to supersede or supplement the current format? --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:06, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

::Uhhhhh...gonna plead ignorance, my friend. I didn't see anything on the Project page; what is the current format? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:27, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

:::[[Template:Biography]]. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 21:50, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

::::Hunnnnh...and look who started that one. Of course, it was a long time ago. 
::::I admit that my suggestion above doesn't address some critical concepts, such as lineage. And I'm not at all fond of using the Notes section as a some sort of alternate References section. I've written of my distaste for Trivia before and think any awards mentioned can be referred to in the history. I guess, to answer your original question: I'd want to merge the two. However, I think I should hear your thoughts. Would you re-format it, and if so, how? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:07, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

===References===
Thare are two ways we can expect to see references handled in a character article: 
#the first is where an Editor just adds the book title (hopefully wikified) to the References section. This is fine for acceptance (of a new article), because at least the character's existance is easily verifiable. However it should be 'enhanced' with a bit more helpful data from a more experienced Editor...
#This method uses the '''<nowiki><ref></ref></nowiki>''' tags, so that the information appears under the References section.
The second method is the 'proper method' for referencing that material. However, it needs a bit more refinement than that.
*Placing the references at the end of paragraphs, rather than in the paragraph. In my explorations in properly referencing material, I've found that references within the paragraph lead to a disjointed appearance within the paragraph and (sometimes) the need to replicate the same reference twice or more. I propose that the references all appear at the end of the paragraph. If the source is properly annotated, then anyone seeking to find the data in the source will only have to look thru the references listed at the paragraph and will find it within mere minutes of accumulating the source materials.
*Every paragraph, with the possible exception of the intro, needs to have references following it. The reason for this is now all the data within that paragraph now has a clear source(s). 
*Use the '''Ref Name''' method when using a reference more than once. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] taught me this method (guidance located [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cite#Using_the_same_citation_again here]). In summary, when you have the same page of a book (as an example) being used more than once in the article, use '''<nowiki><ref name=xxx></ref></nowiki>''' for the first use of the reference, where '''xxx''' is any name you want. Thereafter, just use '''<nowiki><ref name=xxx/></nowiki>''' (note the '''/''' addition to close it out) at subsequent paragraphs. The advantages in this are twofold: it makes it easier than having to type out the whole reference again and it clears up the reference section, as the reference is listed only once, even if used numerous times.
*Reference format: this one may actually be the area that involves the most discussion, as preferred methods may differ. For the recent articles I've been working on, I use the following format:
:::source name (wikilinked & italicized), page number, section title.
:::ex: ''[[The Fall of Terra (scenariobook)]]'', pp 7, "Gathering Storm".
Unlike other more literary sites, we generally have good documentation on publisher, date of printing, etc., on the source article to which the ref is linked. So, I propose just identifying the source material, give the page name and where on the page it can be found. A minimalist approach, I believe. If a section (in the source material) spans multiple pages, then give the range of pages (ex: pp 7-10). I believe this approach gives more than just the exact passage needed; it also provides the context from which the article is derived.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 14:12, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

:I'll disagree with you here. In-text citations don't foul up the readability, and in some cases are needed for clarity of reference (see [[Draconis Combine]] as an example). I also use a simplified format, even simpler in fact, but I like the idea of using the section title. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:06, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

::First off, that is a very-well documented article. And, yes, I have to agree that as a demonstration of intra-paragraph citations, it handles it well. In some of the articles I've written or improved upon, I've found two or more references for the same data point. With intra-paragraph citations, there would be an instance of having a <span style="color:blue;"><sup><small>[4][6][7]</small></sup></span> breaking up the sentences (and yes, I do feel that if multiple references can be cited, they should). It disrupts the ''feng shui'' (so just kidding). Single cites, I'll admit, don't disrupt the flow for me, but I do think finding the citations at the end allows your eyes to skip over them, if you're intending to follow the cites. 

::As for clarity of reference, I see your point.<span style="color:blue;"><sup><small>[1]</small></sup></span> But I'd argue that you could have two-three sources all providing details on the same subject (of the paragraph).<span style="color:blue;"><sup><small>[2]</small></sup></span> Source A provides the information for the 1st and 4th sentences, as demonstrated in this paragraph.<span style="color:blue;"><sup><small>[3]</small></sup></span> Source B provides for the 2nd and 5th sentences.<span style="color:blue;"><sup><small>[1]</small></sup></span> Source C provides for the 3rd and 4th sentences.<span style="color:blue;"><sup><small>[2][3]</small></sup></span> And then you'd get something like this paragraph, when the article is fully and properly cited.

::In the end-paragraph method, everything is accumulated at the end. As generally, you won't have more than three or four sources cited for any one paragraph, they will still be facts easily verified, because the cited sources are limited to those three or four sources. Granted: not nearly as directly attributed as intra-paragraphs, but still ''fully'' cited, and allows later Editors to not have to ensure that an inserted sentence isn't breaking up a cited references (for say 2-3 sentences that previously all came from the same source; broken up, they have to be individually re-cited, and its less than positive that the latest Editor will do that). See the previous (example) paragraph, where the first Editor used Source A for his first two sentences, only to have another Editor add 2 more sentences in-between. In this case, Editor #2 was thoughtful, and added another cite for Source A after the fourth sentence. <span style="color:blue;"><sup><small>[1][2][3]</small></sup></span>

::However, I'll roll over on this point easily enough, if we do ''allow'' for end-of-paragraph cites as an alternative method.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:27, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

:::I guess, because of my background, the citations don't bother me as I'm used to seeing them. Your method makes it more difficult to look up citations, but easier to add information to the articles. There is a trade-off, and I'm not sure which one is better. I do think we should pick one so we don't end up with both strewn about, or even both within an article. Lastly, there is no reason for multiple citations for one sentence. You make one footnote and include all citations within that one. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 21:50, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

::::My background isn't light on citations either, but I'm no longer an historian. I agree with you that multiple references can be added to one citation. I'm trying to achieve a process that makes it both easy on the eyes and easy for the newest Editors to grasp, without referring to a talk page for explanation (seeking the original Editor's intention, where more than likely the request will be missed). My [[Brotherhood of Randis]] project, with its corollary articles, was real draining on me, after the initial research and note-taking was done. I had to force myself each night to transfer my notes to the wiki, after the lead article was complete. Your ref name method made it so much simpler; if I had to combine references into one citation for one paragraph and then create another different citation for one of those references again, but multiplied by many times...I know my hobbyist heart wouldn't have been up for it.

::::However, I guess what we need to do is boil it down to some fundamental questions: 1) which method (intra- or end-paragraph) is more likely to be used by Editors not attempting to peruse the policy first and 2) which one would be easier to implement as a static policy. The first answer would clearly be the intra-paragraph method, so a policy implementing the intra-method would see less violations. The second one I'm not sure about. I think it would be easier for Editor #2 to transition a paragraph from the intra-method to the end-method, if that was the policy; I don't think the reverse would be true. However, there are a bare minimum number of articles using the end-method, so it wouldn't be much to set up policy with the intra-method. What's your take on the answers? And do you have any other questions that can be used to judge the issue? (Have to say: I'm still partial to using both methods; I think the inconsistency with having two methods is countered with the ease of all Editors having a choice.)--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:07, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

===Categories===
Three things:
*Per the [[Policy_Talk:Notability#Category:People_renamed_to_Category:Characters|Category:People renamed to Category:Characters]] proposal, all character articles are to be gathered in the new '''Category:Characters'''. 
*Per the directing proposal above, child categories are allowed. That gives us two parent categories (PeopleReal and Characters) and then a family tree down from the Characters parent. Most child categories will be in-universe based (i.e, House Davion or Khans), but there are two non-universe cats: Major Characters and Minor Characters. These two may develop their own child categories, but I propose they don't (otherwise we'll get variations on categories that deal with similar, but slightly different collections, which could be confusing because of similar naming conventions; ex: Davion Characters, Major Davion Characters).
*This is just a nitpick, and really not that important, but I propose we guide the order of the categories on the character article: the cats should appear below any displayable subject matter and be ordered in accordance with their parent-child ranking. Ex: '''Category:Characters''', '''Category:House Davion Characters''', '''Category:First Princes'''.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 14:30, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

:I agree. If we need child sub-categories later, we can discuss that then. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:06, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

===Dates===
I'm unclear as to the intent of this issue in the proposal (yes, I know I wrote it). However, I'd say, like references, knowing when something occurred is an important fact. Specific dates, when provided, should be included and every sentence is assumed to be based on events that occurred since the last year mentioned (unless an unknown amount of time has passed, which should be indicated in the paragraph). Years should be wikilinked and, if possible and appropriate, that linked year article should have a brief entry as to the event quoted in the article (though trivalities, such as "[[Battle Magic]] bought three pounds of beans from a vendor on [[Outreach]]" should be avoided).--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 14:35, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

:Years should be linked. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:06, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

===Deletion Requirements===
The consensus was clear that there are few instances where deleting an article is appropriate. As it states in the [[Policy:Notability|Notability policy]], any character that exists in a licensed BT product is eligible for an article; if its from an unlicensed article, then it is considered fanon, and labeled as such (this is from the [[Policy:Canon|Canon Policy]] under final review phase now). Therefore, if an article is written about a dubious character, it will either have references or it won't: 
*If it does, then check the references.
**If the reference is licensed, then it belongs in the majority side of BTW
**If the references are unlicensed, then kick it to the fanon side, adding the appropriate tag and ensuring the categories are Custom.
*If it doesn't have references, tag it as needing references or a fanon tag within a set period of time (I say one month exactly) or it will be deleted. (We'll need to have a Deletions log available for archival purposes, explaining why.) After the set period of time, an Admin may delete it.

[[User:Frabby|Frabby]] made the point in the proposal that any article that was to be deleted must have that character added to an appropriate minor character's list article. However, under the current rules where only dubious character articles would be deleted, that requirement is not necessary. However, if deletion rules expand to encompass other types of submissions, then by the consensus wording, Frabby's point is valid and mandated. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 14:50, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

===Tag Development===
I see at least three tags needing to be developed:
*article needs improvement, expandable to all details of what areas at a minimum are needed
*section needs improvement, indicating exactly what is wrong with that section
*article needs either fanon tag or licensed references within so many days or it will face deletion
--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 14:57, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

== Tomoe Sakade ==

I'm looking for reference material for this terribly under-used character. I thought she was fantastic in "Heir to the Dragon", but she is barely mentioned outside of that book. Its mentioned in the new DC Handbook that she committed seppuku after losing a battle in the DC/Ghost Bear war, but only off-handedly. Does anyone have some good reference material? [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] 21:45, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
:She rates a mention in FM:DC, though little beyond that. There are mentions of her in places that addressed Teddy K's personal life. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 00:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

== Jackson Davion ==

Okay - didn't work on Tomoe. Does anyone have a source for reference material on Jackson Davion? I was certain there would be something in the FS Field Manual or the recent House Davion Handbook, and I was sorely disappointed. Any help? [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] 17:41, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
:There is a bio on him in FM:FS and I'm fairly certain he's in HB:HD. Look again. He also rates a mention in 20-Year Update and he's heavily featured in ''Isle of the Blessed''. The Jihad-era books also have info on him. He is also mentioned in the first DA novel about the FS. IIRC, some of the info is contradictory. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 00:48, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

== Dechan Fraser lives! ==

[[Dechan Fraser]] - new article. Think I did better on this one. Incidentally, Michi Noketsuna and Grieg Samsanov are definitely on my to-do list. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] 07:20, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

== Yay, I got my Tomoe article up ==

[[Tomoe Sakade]] is up for review. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] 03:16, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

== Article Review : Ninyu Kerai Indrahar ==

[[Ninyu Kerai Indrahar]] is up for review. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] 07:14, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

== Selvin Kelswa III ==
[[Selvin Kelswa III]] is up, if anyone is interested. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] 05:29, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

==Missing Characters==
Hy guys, the BTW Project Biographies, become in next time some (grml...red links), i hope i can add all relevant missing personalities to the needed articles section.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] 15:38, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

==Duplicate Names & Notability==
I recently expanded the article on [[Alexander Davion]] to cover the [[Reunification War]] period of his personal history. I have since looked at the many pages about him in ''[[Handbook: House Davion]]'' and blanched a little - I may leave the rest of his character bio for a while. I've  hit a problem with him, though; the completist in me wants to get rid of the red links within Alexander's bio, most of which are spouses and children. The majority of Alexander's children have almost no backgound infor on them, but a number share names with later, more famous people. One of his sons is [[Roger Davion]]. Roger died in a jumpship accident in [[2596]]. [[Roger Davion]] is also the name of a 27th century [[First Prince]] of the [[Federated Suns]], which is where the link currently leads. After his sons [[Vincent Davion]] and Roger died in that jumpship accident in 2596, Alexander appointed his grandson, [[Ian Davion]] as regent, until Ian was assassinated in [[2599]]. Ian Davion shares a name with the later First Prince who died on [[Mallory's World]] and who was succeeded by the rather famous [[Hanse Davion]]. So, how to I go about naming articles for these various characters? It doesn't feel right to make the 31st century Ian Davion "Ian Davion II" simply because he's later, because I think it's fair to say he's the much more famous Ian, and he was actually First Prince. On the other hand, it doesn't make sense to change Alexander's grandson Ian to "Ian Davion II" because he was around 450 years earlier than the more famous namesake. So, what's the naming convention for articles for people with duplicate names from different eras and with different levels of notability? Should I simply create a long article entitled "children and grandchildren of Alexander Davion" and make each child or grandchild a sub-section, and link to that sub-section? Or is there already a defined convention I haven't found that can provide me with some enlightenment and direction? I'd be grateful for any advice. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] 09:05, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
: I will address the notability issue first. This is absolutely a relevant issue that has come up in every element we cover. Look at all the SLDF unit articles we have that are two sentences long. Or the "conventional unit" articles that are even shorter. If you think we don't have "minor" battlemechs, look up the Hollander II. If you think we don't have minor planets, look up [[Thomas]]. I have long advocated we need a policy to resolve this issue while at the same time attempting to write in-depth articles about characters no one else has even heard of. So you are preaching to the choir on all of that.  
: Now regarding the "multiple character" issue, this came up with me when I dealt with [[Richard Steiner]]. I keep intending to write a Janos Marik article that lists how many descendants (and false descenedants) were named Janos. Obviously, disambig articles may be needed, as will further conversation. But to answer your question, there seems to be no convention. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] 15:55, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
::When I first came here (way back in '06), there were absolutely no policies, and well no articles other than those that Nic auto-generated (planets and CCG). The first thing I did was turn to Wikipedia for initial guidance, from which we adapted to meet our unique circumstances. I'll head over there as time allows today and see how they do it. If their policy is a good one to steal and then adapt (vice write anew), I'll do so. Stay tuned here for direction as to where to join the discussion, when I've started something.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 16:18, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
::I've opened up a draft policy page, with the discussion being held [[Policy Talk:Article Naming|here]].--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 17:08, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

== Kathleen Heany ==
[[Kathleen Heany]]. For your approval. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 18:16, 9 October 2012 (PDT)

== Rewritten: Ulric Kerensky ==
[[Ulric Kerensky]] has been rewritten. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 14:23, 7 April 2013 (PDT)

==Editing Help==
If there are any pages that need a particularly high amount of grammatical help, just notify me, otherwise, I don't really know where to start. Thanks. [[User:BobTheZombie|BobTheZombie]] ([[User talk:BobTheZombie|talk]]) 12:20, 22 June 2013 (PDT)
: Bob - Take a look at pages with the "Cleanup Needed" tag. That might help. I won't say all the issues with the CN are grammar, but there it is. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 23:05, 22 June 2013 (PDT)
::Yes I've looked over those, but they have been just about fixed, and I wondered if there were any specific information dump pages that people knew of that needed to be refined grammatically. I guess I'll start on the http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:New_articles_needing_to_be_reviewed_%28Biographies%29 page. [[User:BobTheZombie|BobTheZombie]] ([[User talk:BobTheZombie|talk]]) 22:20, 24 June 2013 (PDT)

=="Gregory Amaris" Help Needed!==
I started the [[Gregory Amaris]] page because he is the most linked formerly-not-on-a-page character I could find. I have only put a scant amount of info on it as I don't have the sources to further it. Could someone please dump info on it? I'll worry about the grammatical editing. [[User:BobTheZombie|BobTheZombie]] ([[User talk:BobTheZombie|talk]]) 20:55, 22 June 2013 (PDT)
:Perhaps a pointer for the future, generally its better to leave a red link rather than create a [[:Category:Sub-stub|Sub-stub]] style article just to take it off the Wanted Page list :) I'll start adding some basic stuff now. [[User:Cyc|Cyc]] ([[User talk:Cyc|talk]]) 22:44, 22 June 2013 (PDT)
::This happens a lot. Many characters are too minor to allow for a quality article, which is why we have "minor character" pages. Not saying Gregory Amaris is one of those, but there it is. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 22:56, 22 June 2013 (PDT)
:::I sometime have time to work on minor characters bios, i've done it extensively in the past. It is one my projects i work on. However, i do suffer from problems with my grammer i can't quite avoid easily. If i'm able i will try focus on them again, i just don't like it if end up competing in trying work on bio someone else is writing on at the same time. My time is limited nowadays. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] ([[User talk:Wrangler|talk]]) 08:19, 23 June 2013 (PDT)

=="Caleb Davion" update required==
Source: Era Report 3145, page 92 - Caleb Davion deceased with effect from 3144. Succeeded as First Prince by Julian Davion fro 3144 - 31??
[[User:Jimmy the Tulip|Jimmy the Tulip]]

== Character Naming ==
Question for you guys about the naming standard on Sarna for pages of characters with the same name.  Taking for example [[Thaddeus Marik]] which will bring you to the disambiguation page for three different Thaddeus'.  I than go to [[Christopher Marik]] which brings you to two different pages, either [[Christopher Marik (24th c.)]] or [[Christopher Marik (32nd c.)]].  The differences between the two is that one just notifies the name difference with roman numerals while the other specifies the main century that they have been alive.   Question is, I need to create a page for Kenyon Marik of the Dark Age instead of [[Kenyon Marik]] the Captain-General.  So which naming method should be used to differentiate these two characters? [[User:DerangedShadow|DerangedShadow]] ([[User talk:DerangedShadow|talk]]) 05:03, 14 January 2014 (PST)
:The example with the two Christopher Mariks is the most current one - it falls into line with the [[Policy:Article_Naming|Article Naming Policy]] that was worked up by Rev a couple of years ago, after some conversations over issues with divergence in names between here and canon as a result of articles here using numerals where canon sources didn't. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 09:30, 14 January 2014 (PST)

== Edward Regis ==

[[Edward Regis]] is up for your review! [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 20:54, 17 April 2014 (PDT)

== Sharon Bryan - New Article ==

[[Sharon Bryan]] is up. Haven't used this page in awhile. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 21:11, 4 July 2015 (PDT)

==Nation based character categories==
How would people feel about the migration of characters from house based faction categories to nation based categories? I know it is a minor thing that would require a lot of work but I feel it would better reflect loyalties of some people (namely people who are loyal to the nation rather than directly to the ruler). So House Davion characters would become Federated Suns characters and so forth.--[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] ([[User talk:Dmon|talk]]) 22:15, 21 February 2017 (EST)
:I don't think any system is going to be perfect. Moving to nation-based categories reduces the problems of assigning people by House, but is going to lead to a lot of overlap - Kai Allard-Liao is going to end up in the Federated Suns, Federated Commonwealth, Second Star League, Republic of the Sphere, St. Ives Compact and Capellan Confederation categories, for example. He's probably an edge example, but a lot of people will fit into multiple categories. How would you assign nation-less characters? [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 02:37, 22 February 2017 (EST)