Editing Talk:Clans

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	Seems way too long and unbalanced in coverage: some Clans get one or two sentences while others have whole paragraphs and are as detailed as their main Clan articles.  My personal opinion is to par it down to just the Clan's name, link to main article, maybe an image with their symbol and perhaps a paragraph at most describing them in general.  Thoughts? [[User:LittleWolf|LittleWolf]] ([[User talk:LittleWolf|talk]]) 11:36, 19 July 2013 (PDT)		Seems way too long and unbalanced in coverage: some Clans get one or two sentences while others have whole paragraphs and are as detailed as their main Clan articles.  My personal opinion is to par it down to just the Clan's name, link to main article, maybe an image with their symbol and perhaps a paragraph at most describing them in general.  Thoughts? [[User:LittleWolf|LittleWolf]] ([[User talk:LittleWolf|talk]]) 11:36, 19 July 2013 (PDT)
	:Went ahead and made the changes, will add additional details later regarding the state of the Clans after the invasion (i.e. Wolf-in-Exile, Smoke Jaguar dead, etc.). [[User:LittleWolf|LittleWolf]] ([[User talk:LittleWolf|talk]]) 13:34, 19 August 2013 (PDT)		:Went ahead and made the changes, will add additional details later regarding the state of the Clans after the invasion (i.e. Wolf-in-Exile, Smoke Jaguar dead, etc.). [[User:LittleWolf|LittleWolf]] ([[User talk:LittleWolf|talk]]) 13:34, 19 August 2013 (PDT)
−	::There is no entry for Clan Mongoose in the list whatsoever and only a brief mention of their Absorption further up. All other clans get a mention as far as I can see. Maybe this is just an oversight? It seems that if Widowmaker gets an entry, and even Jade Wolf (aka Wolf) gets an entry, then Mongoose should have one too. -guest 15:31, 22 March 2018 (EDT)
−	:::You are correct, however I'm unsure really why such a table exists anyway when there should just be a see also link to the Clans Category of the wiki.----[[User:Deadfire|Deadfire]] ([[User talk:Deadfire|talk]]) 17:17, 22 March 2018 (EDT)
	==Article Too Long==		==Article Too Long==
	Since this tag was added a ways back I've thought of how to trim it down without turning the entire page into just a directory of links; I personally don't think it is but then I'm open to that view.  My initial thought is to focus on trimming down the sections which have enough material that they could support being their own page (i.e. Trials) while leaving alone the sections which don't (i.e. Economy).  If/when I get around to it my first focus would be to create separate pages for [[History of the Clans]], [[Caste]]s and [[Trial]]s, but want to see what others think before I get started.[[User:LittleWolf|LittleWolf]] ([[User talk:LittleWolf|talk]]) 13:27, 9 November 2014 (PST)		Since this tag was added a ways back I've thought of how to trim it down without turning the entire page into just a directory of links; I personally don't think it is but then I'm open to that view.  My initial thought is to focus on trimming down the sections which have enough material that they could support being their own page (i.e. Trials) while leaving alone the sections which don't (i.e. Economy).  If/when I get around to it my first focus would be to create separate pages for [[History of the Clans]], [[Caste]]s and [[Trial]]s, but want to see what others think before I get started.[[User:LittleWolf|LittleWolf]] ([[User talk:LittleWolf|talk]]) 13:27, 9 November 2014 (PST)
	:Yeah, that makes sense; kinda like what we tried to do for the faction pages but never got done {{emoticon | :( }}. I think it's a good idea, but we should get some more opinions before starting. -[[User:BobTheZombie|BobTheZombie]] ([[User talk:BobTheZombie|talk]]) 20:29, 9 November 2014 (PST)		:Yeah, that makes sense; kinda like what we tried to do for the faction pages but never got done {{emoticon | :( }}. I think it's a good idea, but we should get some more opinions before starting. -[[User:BobTheZombie|BobTheZombie]] ([[User talk:BobTheZombie|talk]]) 20:29, 9 November 2014 (PST)
−	::I completely agree.  But I would suggest calling the Trials article [[Clan Trial]]s, with either a redirect or a disambiguation for [[Trial]]s. — [[User:Rebs|Rebs]] ([[User talk:Rebs|talk]]) 07:59, 31 January 2015 (PST)	+	::I completely agree.  But I would suggest calling the Trials section [[Clan Trial]], with either a redirect or a disambiguation for [[Trial]]s. — [[User:Rebs|Rebs]] ([[User talk:Rebs|talk]]) 07:59, 31 January 2015 (PST)
−
−	== Incorrect Emblem: Clan Wolf-in-Exile ==
−	The Emblem on the list displayed for Clan Wolf-in-Exile is incorrect. Their emblem uses a metallic gray wolf head, not a red one.
−	[[User:Amaroq Dricaldari|~Amaroq Starwind~]] ([[User talk:Amaroq Dricaldari|talk]]) 17:06, 23 March 2018 (EDT)
−	:That is not correct. CWiE has the same emblem as Clan Wolf. The gray head is a fan creation.--[[User:Cache|Cache]] ([[User talk:Cache|talk]]) 18:04, 23 March 2018 (EDT)
−	::Cache is right - I remember the devs being asked about it on the CGL forum and them confirming the grey wolf is a fan creation, and that as far as the Wolves in Exile are concerned "they are the real Clan Wolf" and as such wouldn't have changed their heraldry. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 18:42, 23 March 2018 (EDT)
−	:::And this sort of thing is why I am very militant about fan creations, even i thought the grey one was real.--[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] ([[User talk:Dmon|talk]]) 06:29, 24 March 2018 (EDT)

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{{WikiProject Factions|tr=new}} *A good project - a very good one - would be for someone to re-write these definitions into the [[Dictionary]]. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] 01:20, 5 October 2006 (CDT) :Indeed. Much of this could be split off, and some of it ''should'' be duplicated there, purely as to make the dictionary a more useful resource. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 20:07, 3 February 2007 (CST) *In the Clan Sea Fox entry, there mentions made of ArcShips and CargoShips. The original editor capitalized these, making me think they are Dark Age classes of spaceships. I've linked them, in the case they deserve their own entries. Any info on these two possible classes of ships would be helpful. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] 13:28, 5 October 2006 (CDT) *There is a disconnect in the Ranks section: In the 'Origins of Stars,' it says that 2 ASFs make up a point, but in the table, 213.132.179.195 wrote that it is made up of 1 ASF. What's the right answer? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] 07:52, 20 October 2006 (CDT) :My gut says one. This source here: [http://www.classicbattletech.com/downloads/TotalWarfarePages34and43_Final.pdf from Total Warfare], says two. If someone can get a "final" version of it (i.e., the actual book) we can source that. For the moment though, I think 213.132.179.195 was right. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 20:07, 3 February 2007 (CST) *Two areospace fighters OR one Navel Vessel (DropShip, JumpShip, or Warship) equals one point. Reference (via ISBN) follows: 1-55560-343-2 Battletech Field Manual: Crusader Clans 1706 p.9 (in a chart) 1-55560-351-3 Battletech Field Manual: Warden Clans 1711 p.10 (in a chart) [[User:76.171.210.251|76.171.210.251]] 04:49, 15 July 2008 (CDT) == Too long? == This article seems WAY too long. It's comprehensive, which I like, but I think we should split this up into multiple articles and branch off this main article. Thoughts? [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]] 13:24, 18 September 2007 (CDT) :It clearly is too long. As Revanche and Xoid previously discussed, I think the first step would be to move the Clan terminology to the Dictionary, or even their own articles in the case of some of the longer things like Trials. Most of this was ripped from Wikipedia, so, like many articles in the same boat, we need to figure out how to BT-Wikify it. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 16:43, 18 September 2007 (CDT) ::I am going to start breaking off the Trials, Castes, etc. into separate articles where warranted. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 15:25, 18 August 2008 (CDT) :::Great! Feel free to use a ==See Also== section to bring the readers' attentions to your forks. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] ^{([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])} 16:21, 18 August 2008 (CDT) * I am working on a 're-work' of sorts for the majority of the page. I can only do this in my free time so it will take probably the better part of a week or so. In the mean time I am doing some minor adjustments to try and clarify which information is up-to-date using circa dating. DeusDuce2 04/23/12 == Topic CAPITALS == So, what's with the topics using CAPITAL LETTERS? It seems kind of obnoxious, and inconsistent with (most of) the wiki. Should we change this? [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] 14:37, 6 November 2010 (UTC) : Yes. Not only does it use CAPITALS, it also is added without a source, makes the page annoyingly long and I also suspect that the info added is taken from at Meta-source. Still, I am not willing to start arguing with the editor about it. I hope that someone else takes up this. --[[User:Neufeld|Neufeld]] 17:20, 6 November 2010 (UTC) :: The text was copy-and-pasted from ''[[Combat Operations]]''. The plagiarized material has been removed. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 23:48, 6 November 2010 (UTC) ==Jade Wolf== Clan Jade Wolf was not a 'real' clan for any length of time, it was a ploy used by what remained of the true Clan Wolf to prevent being absorbed by other clans. The link and confusion of the "Jade Wolves" has been removed from the page. Also added Clan Stone Lion to the list, I will use the information in the Wars of Reaving to fill in more when I get time. Deusduce2 April 21, 2012 :I don't know how I feel about removed "Clan Jade Wolf" from this list. Jade Wolf was short-lived as a name, but it was a Clan nonetheless. Technically, the Wolf Clan was destroyed, then the Jade Wolves were created and later renamed "Clan Wolf". It would seem that the story of the Jade Wolves can easily be told under Clan Wolf, though. Any other editors want to weigh in? --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 07:47, 22 April 2012 (PDT) ::I agree that it was a political stunt cooked up by Elias Crichel and saKhan Chistu, because it was simply a Trial of Refusal that got out of hand from the start when Ulric Kerensky bid his entire Touman. After the fact the Falcon politicos claimed that it was actually an Absorption, as odious as that was as a political move. As an aside, I don't think that would fly in a Grand Council of any other era. But it was voted for and done, and Clan Jade Wolf was a fact for under an hour or so until the better part of Clan law allowed Vlady Ward to reverse it. However long it actually was, I agree, it should be noted under Clan Wolf. Three incarnations of Clan Wolf, plus an offshoot with Wolf-in-Exile (which can lay claim to being of the first incarnation). Clans are a headache. --[[User:Rebs|Rebs]] 11:52, 22 April 2012 (PDT) * In an attempt to appease both sides I have merged the core description of the "Jade Wolves" with that of the nominal Wolf heading. My original intent is for someone who is just learning about Battletech or who wants to know more about the Clans to be able to find a clear and concise list of current or at least major Clans. While there is debate about the validity of the Jade Wolves as a real clan I think we can all agree they were at best a minor influence regardless of their status. DeusDuce2 04/22/12 :::I can understand wanting to make the Clan picture more concise, but Scaletail is right. Clan Jade Wolf should be presented on this page. Here are three solutions involving the format of the page, rather than the content: :::1. Founding Clans (including Diamond Shark? or no?) vs. New Clans (Jade Wolf, new Burrock, Stone Lion, Diamond Shark?). Also, what about Clan-like factions from MW:DA? :::2. Successor Clans under the subheading of the parent Clan (Rebs' suggestion, my preference) :::3. Active Clans by 3050, 3063, 3090 or another date. :::Personally, I like suggestions 1&2 best, as these do not have add arbitrary dates. And to DeusDuce2, if you want to sign your posts quickly with date and time, just type "~" four times without spaces, one of many neat time-saving tricks. Take care!--[[User:S.gage|S.gage]] 21:05, 23 April 2012 (PDT) :::: I'd like to clear this matter up completely, can anyone quote ANY information from novels or source books that took place during this time period to actually show the Jade Wolves were created as a new Clan? Also, yes Gage, 1-3 is pretty much what I am doing right now but I am putting it in Word doc so I can get the formatting and information correct and just copy and paste it all here when I'm done. I'm using a combination of all three of those options, which are all very good thoughts. [[User:Deusduce2|Deusduce2]] 13:40, 24 April 2012 (PDT) ==List of Clans== Seems way too long and unbalanced in coverage: some Clans get one or two sentences while others have whole paragraphs and are as detailed as their main Clan articles. My personal opinion is to par it down to just the Clan's name, link to main article, maybe an image with their symbol and perhaps a paragraph at most describing them in general. Thoughts? [[User:LittleWolf|LittleWolf]] ([[User talk:LittleWolf|talk]]) 11:36, 19 July 2013 (PDT) :Went ahead and made the changes, will add additional details later regarding the state of the Clans after the invasion (i.e. Wolf-in-Exile, Smoke Jaguar dead, etc.). [[User:LittleWolf|LittleWolf]] ([[User talk:LittleWolf|talk]]) 13:34, 19 August 2013 (PDT) ==Article Too Long== Since this tag was added a ways back I've thought of how to trim it down without turning the entire page into just a directory of links; I personally don't think it is but then I'm open to that view. My initial thought is to focus on trimming down the sections which have enough material that they could support being their own page (i.e. Trials) while leaving alone the sections which don't (i.e. Economy). If/when I get around to it my first focus would be to create separate pages for [[History of the Clans]], [[Caste]]s and [[Trial]]s, but want to see what others think before I get started.[[User:LittleWolf|LittleWolf]] ([[User talk:LittleWolf|talk]]) 13:27, 9 November 2014 (PST) :Yeah, that makes sense; kinda like what we tried to do for the faction pages but never got done {{emoticon | :( }}. I think it's a good idea, but we should get some more opinions before starting. -[[User:BobTheZombie|BobTheZombie]] ([[User talk:BobTheZombie|talk]]) 20:29, 9 November 2014 (PST) ::I completely agree. But I would suggest calling the Trials section [[Clan Trial]], with either a redirect or a disambiguation for [[Trial]]s. — [[User:Rebs|Rebs]] ([[User talk:Rebs|talk]]) 07:59, 31 January 2015 (PST)

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