Karagin
08/06/02 05:48 AM
63.173.170.104
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to pull of it's little war?
Anyone have any ideas or speculation on this? Or if you feel they don't have the man power and the facts don't match the new story line comment away.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cheapbuzz
08/06/02 06:55 AM
165.76.24.225
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I believe its from PFM.
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Karagin
08/06/02 07:12 AM
63.173.170.104
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PFM?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Greyslayer
08/06/02 08:32 AM
216.14.192.226
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Man in a Can.
Made from 95% recycled spam products.
Greyslayer
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Karagin
08/06/02 08:37 AM
63.173.170.132
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Is that a product of the planet Byss and it's clone labs? Or did the plastic army men factory run out of plastic bags?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Greyslayer
08/06/02 09:21 AM
216.14.192.226
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Spam is a multipurpose product. Its ingredients are top secret and it is mixed at a top secret location. We tested this product in the recent conflict on the Cappellan Front for our Word of Blake contractors. We found through testing that the Man in the Can will only work in attrocious conditions for the most mentally unstable factions (this of course easily met the conditions set by our contract with Word of Blake).
We have subsequently had orders put in by the Clans and the Lyran Alliance.
Please stay tuned for other wonderful products such as 2 minute vehicles and pop-top microwave mechwarriors.
Brought to you by a company that believes quantity is everything ..... ACME Biochemicals.
Greyslayer
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Nightward
08/06/02 05:18 PM
132.234.251.211
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"And lo, the owners of Whiz Kidz said 'Let us shatter the BattleTech universe, caring not for the devoted masses who have supported it in the past. We shall sunder their Houses, destroy their favourite units, and melt their favourite 'Mechs, Tanks, Fighters, and Battle Armour down for commemorative medals.' And all assembled said 'Sounds good. How much money can we make?'" -The BattleTech Book of Revalations, 7:14.
The short answer is: They didn't. In 3060, the Word of Blake Militia was ten understrength Level IVs, and they were on the verge of bankrupcy to do it. Whiz Kidz decided that it should be that way for their new game, and so it came to pass.
Please don't turn this into another MW:DA vs CBT flame war. Those are just my opinions.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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NathanKell
08/06/02 09:29 PM
24.44.238.62
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And too bloody true they are, at that.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
BA_Evans
08/09/02 06:09 PM
63.97.240.1
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It sounds like you are assuming that everyone will be wearing WOB uniforms. Don't forget that WOB controls a significant portion of the Inner Sphere's communications and Comstar allows WOB to transmit messages over their communication net as well. All WOB needs to do is to give orders to House Units and Merc Units to go attack such and such. The only thing WOB would need to be able to do, is to crack the super duper secret verification system the Houses use to ensure their messages are original. One little technilogical break and WOB will have everyone fighting everyone.
There would be a period of time when the Houses would be very vulnerable because nobody could trust any orders they got. They would eventually have to rely on jumpship communication and the black boxes. Unfortunately, it is hard to coordinate and intersteller nation's activities for long periods of time using these methods.
Didn't Davion cave in to Comstar when they were hit with a communications blackout?
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realworldviews
08/09/02 09:46 PM
24.98.65.7
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From what I remember reading somewhere, (now if only I can remember where  ) WoB is suppose to be hiring all sorts of Mercenaries, and has become the largest user of Mercs.
Now I may be wrong, But, even the Wobbies could amass a rather large army in a short time using the FWL money.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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novakitty
08/09/02 10:48 PM
209.242.100.230
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They might need to use fronts and completely false mission objectives.
How many good mercenaries would go for an ad: "Extremists seek disestablishmentarian Mechwarriors to smite all who dare oppose the Will of Blake" or could they put a good spin on it?
meow
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KamikazeJohnson
08/09/02 11:20 PM
142.161.42.84
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How about "Fight well? Need money? We can help you afford your next meal..."
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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MacLeod
08/10/02 01:45 AM
209.244.96.118
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Hey, as a merc, I find that offensive...
Or, to quote Foghorn Leghorn:
"Ah, ah say, ah represent that remark!"
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
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KamikazeJohnson
08/10/02 01:59 AM
142.161.42.84
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Ah...I gather you don't work for the DC often? If you do, that remark is funny...because it's TRUUUUEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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MacLeod
08/10/02 02:04 AM
209.244.96.118
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No, haven't worked for the DC in a while... I usually work with the Davions, but right now my contract is with the ARDC... probably gonna stay that way... I like the Kells, and getting free Clanner tech is sweet!
By the way, I can beat Phelan Kell at poker! 
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
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Cheapbuzz
08/10/02 09:19 AM
165.76.25.18
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Pure F***ing Magic.....
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realworldviews
08/10/02 09:11 PM
24.98.65.7
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I have to agree as a fellow Merc, I have never worked for Kurita, Liao, or Marik. Strickly Davion, Stiener, and Corporate Intrests. Of course that could all change for I am only just now entering 3041. (yea, Level 1 tech)
Oh and now I finally have a tag line.
Major Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, For those all who start off with a dream"
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Bob_Richter
08/10/02 09:15 PM
4.35.174.250
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Same place everyone else gets manpower...
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
08/10/02 11:43 PM
65.129.166.13
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Sorry Bob, but that theory was linked to Comstar and the Explore Corps.
And very few mercs worth anything would be joining them. And to further shoot this idea down there are NOT that many merc units out there who ARE NOT all ready hired by on of the houses or minor powers other then ComStar/WoB....
So I think we can rule this idea out, but if you feel other wise then that is your call.
Have a nice day.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
08/11/02 12:00 AM
210.50.58.146
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Play nice, fellas. In Bob's defence, the Com Star FM does say the Blakists are hiring extensively. In Karagn's, I'd imagine it would take quite a number of regiments do do what the Blakists are supposed to have.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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realworldviews
08/11/02 12:02 AM
24.98.65.7
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Thats where I read it, and hey it 'could' happen.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Karagin
08/11/02 12:08 AM
65.129.166.13
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Right I keep forgetting the just add water and things happen in the BT story...whole regiments can pop up over night as can whole mech factories.
"Every ten seconds a new merc units formed and every 30 seconds another is destroyed..." At this rate we should have what millions of merc units out there...some how I doubt that.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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novakitty
08/11/02 12:10 AM
209.242.100.230
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"Every ten seconds a new merc units formed and every 30 seconds another is destroyed..."
Since the mercenary population is not increasing that fast, we can assume that every 15 seconds, two beaten and bruised mercenary units unite to try to remain competative.
meow
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Karagin
08/11/02 12:13 AM
65.129.166.13
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Thus their numbers ARE NOT big enough to support WoB's numbers needed for their war...
Now I could buy this IF AND ONLY IF EVEY MERC UNIT in the Inner Sphere joined them all the way down to the Dragoons, then maybe just then would that have this as answer...and given how a lot of units DON'T like WoB or Comstar...it's not going to happen.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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novakitty
08/11/02 12:15 AM
209.242.100.230
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I think there is supposed to be a lot of covert recruitment in other forces.
Orders such as "You keep this descrambler near you, and until you hear order9s through it, just do what the (insert organization name here) officers tell you to."
Seems a bit difficult to manage, but it would be even more devastating that a war where every mercenary wore the WOB colors.
meow
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Karagin
08/11/02 12:17 AM
65.129.166.13
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At this point and time in the storyline I guess anything is possible...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightmare
08/11/02 01:10 AM
194.251.240.106
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Recruiting from other militaries is certainly a possibility. I`d suspect a few of the Davionist/Steinerist units involved in the FC civil war could be subverted. Their idiotic rulers just fought a civil war and mauled RCTs by the dozens. Why not join someone who promises peace in our time? Does everyone know that the wobblies are kooks, or do they seem reasonably sane In-Game?
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Karagin
08/11/02 05:55 PM
65.133.242.82
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In-Game or out of game they sounds like kooks and nuts.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
08/11/02 05:56 PM
132.234.251.211
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Oh, no. They're all fruit loops. They pray to their *SHOWERS* before they use them, so that the Shower-Spirits won't take the glorious technology of Showers away ffrom them...
It just doesn't make any sense. i've given my reason for this happening already, so I won't bore you again. Nevertheless, I will note that the 21st Centauri Lancers have been telling other Mercenary outfits about the Word of Blake...
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
08/11/02 05:58 PM
65.133.242.82
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In reply to:
Nightward wrote: It just doesn't make any sense. i've given my reason for this happening already, so I won't bore you again. Nevertheless, I will note that the 21st Centauri Lancers have been telling other Mercenary outfits about the Word of Blake...
Which is another point that seems to point away from mercs as their manpower base...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
08/11/02 06:13 PM
132.234.251.211
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Yeah. For mine, I cannot see how the Blakists got so many troops. Obviously, we don't have the details on how they did what they did, but it would require *MASSIVE* manpower to pull it off. Even if the Free Worlds League and the Capellan Confederation were ignored because they are WoB's allies, the Periphery States were ignored because nobody gives a damn about them anyway, and the Clans were put into the "Too Hard" basket, there are still hundreds of worlds (I do not have the books on hand to quote real numers). Let's say there are 3 or 4 hundred. Let's also say half of those worlds are garrisoned with Regimental-sized forces (which sounds about right). Attacking a planet with anything less than a 3:1 advantage is not only stupid, but suicidal, so the Blakists need between 450 and 600 regiments to do the job. Interdicitions mean diddly squat, because you aren't going to be ferrying trrops around, you'll just be battening down the hatches and waiting for the Wobblies to arrive, then fighting them. The Wobblies have the equal of ten reinforced regiments, give or take a few , plus whatever mercenaries they can scrounge up. Unless half of every Successor State's military is a WoB plant, and they hired all the Mercenaries available (and I doubt units like the Wolf Dragoons, Kell Hounds, Knights of St. Cameron, Legion of the Rising Sun, Group W, Black Thorns, 21st Centauri Lancers etc would sign on for this B.S.), *AND* every Com Guard defected (at least for the duration of the Jihad) I have no idea where they got these troops. The Clans couldn't do the job nearly 20 years ago with the advantages they had, so how could these nut-jobs pull it off?
They can't. The plot writers just said they could (see my earlier post).
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
08/11/02 06:29 PM
65.133.242.82
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I agree with you 100%...even using BT logic they can't do it.
WAIT! I figuered it out! They have the aliens from FAR COUNTRY on their side and have the lost armies of Amaris and the RWR supporting them! As for mateials they have found these fully automated factories that they can move around to build what they need...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
08/11/02 06:33 PM
132.234.251.211
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Mmm. And dimensional rifts have placed the full armies of Terra Nova, Macross, Robotech, Gundam, and Neon Genesis under their control. That's pretty much the only way they could do it...
Especially with Antione Mailaux and Boyden Wallis with them. Damn, they are sooooooo cool!
I liked that mission where you blow up the anti-matter bomb. By blowing up the tuck carrying it, mind you. I really liked Antione's closing comment on tha mission: "Eeef you dooon't ahndahstand eeet......keeel eeet." And Boyden Wallis, piloting the mighty Kodiak of Doom, fighting CEF Infantry on that mission, whipping out his Bazooka and saying "Meet...thy....maker!"
Sorry. Got a little bit off track, there...
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
08/11/02 06:55 PM
65.133.242.82
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Glitter Boy Power Armor versus an Elemental...:D
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
08/11/02 07:04 PM
132.234.251.211
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I know nothing of the RPGs, just what I can rmember from 6 or 7 years ago when they were on the TV in the mornings. But I remember one of my friends telling me something about that thing. I think. Doesn't it have big spike things that it fires into the ground so it doesn't go airborne when it fires?
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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rock
08/11/02 08:26 PM
152.163.204.196
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"Realistically???" --- I do not see how WoB could get the forces. However, -- It comes down to that the writers say it is so.
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Bob_Richter
08/11/02 09:06 PM
4.35.174.250
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>>>Sorry Bob, but that theory was linked to Comstar and the Explore Corps.<<<
Maybe I'm just stupid, but the foregoing sentence means nothing to me, given the context.
Word of Blake IS hiring massive numbers of mercenaries.
And they have some twenty regiments (ten divisions) of their own, and Terra, its production facilities, its massive population to form an army of conscripts. There's quite a lot of manpower there.
>>>And very few mercs worth anything would be joining them. <<<
Mercs work for money, and WOBs money is as good as anyone else's. Better than some, given their excellent treatment of mercenaries.
>>>And to further shoot this idea down there are NOT that many merc units out there who ARE NOT all ready hired by on of the houses or minor powers other then ComStar/WoB....
<<<
No, only about two-thirds of the military power in the Inner Sphere becomes unemployed in a given decade.
Oh wait. That's plenty.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
08/11/02 09:15 PM
4.35.174.250
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>>>Let's say there are 3 or 4 hundred.<<<
There are over three hundred in the Lyran Commonwealth alone.
>>>Let's also say half of those worlds are garrisoned with Regimental-sized forces (which sounds about right). <<<
Ridiculous. That would leave many other planets with no defense whatsoever.
>>>Attacking a planet with anything less than a 3:1 advantage is not only stupid, but suicidal, so the Blakists need between 450 and 600 regiments to do the job.<<<
Attacking a POSITION with anything less than a 3:1 advantage is foolhardy. Attacking a PLANET with even forces isn't a bad bet, and 3:1 odds is no insurance at all.
Even then, those numbers would ONLY be required for a simultaneous assault on ALL planets!
>>>and I doubt units like the Wolf Dragoons, Kell Hounds, Knights of St. Cameron, Legion of the Rising Sun, Group W, Black Thorns, 21st Centauri Lancers etc would sign on for this B.S.<<<
Prestigious units are a very small percentage of the available mercenary forces.
>>>The Wobblies have the equal of ten reinforced regiments, give or take a few<<<
Had. A decade ago.
Who's to say what they might have now, with conscriptions from Terra and volunteers from the propagandized FWL, with Terra's 'Mech production and plenty of Mercs?
And they STILL FAIL. Don't forget that. The WOBblies proved to be shooting blanks. They didn't have the force or competance they needed, whether they thought they did or not.
The only sections of the Inner Sphere meaningfully effected were the old Terran Hegemony worlds, which became the Republic of the Sphere, and the Free Worlds League, which recovered nicely.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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BroCaptMaximus
08/11/02 09:31 PM
24.241.176.26
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Yep, the rail gun's recoil would knock them flat on their back without the anchors that they sunk into the ground. I thought that was some very cool fluff. RIFTS was a good game.
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Karagin
08/11/02 10:23 PM
65.129.165.131
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To save time and effort I will suggest that you spend some time reading the other BT boards and you will find out more on a lot of the given topics.
The bottom line is there are NOT enough CANON mercenary units in the game for them to hire to get the size of force they need.
Now you can either live with that and the idea it implies or you can argue other wise.
It's up to you. I don't believe that this, the WoB rise to galatic power, was thought thru fully and thus the holes are showing up. If you disagree that is fine.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/11/02 10:25 PM
65.129.165.131
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Bottom line is there not enough areas for the WoB to get the forces they need to even have a chance against any of the IS powers.
There are not enough CANON mercenary units either for them to draw on. So the idea comes down to one that we all know and hate, TPTB say so and thus we are forced to believe it since they said so.
And folks wonder why I get a little upset over lines like that...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/11/02 10:27 PM
65.129.165.131
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And you have hit the nail on the head...FPlogic says water allows mechs to come about...so thus we have to take that as they since they have the story set in stone...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
08/11/02 11:30 PM
4.35.174.250
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>>>To save time and effort I will suggest that you spend some time reading the other BT boards and you will find out more on a lot of the given topics.<<<
To save time and effort, you will have to explain yourself. Your remark makes no sense in context. Provide a context.
>>>The bottom line is there are NOT enough CANON mercenary units in the game for them to hire to get the size <<<
The bottom line is that the CANON Merc units aren't even a FRACTION of the merc units that the CANON acknowledges to exist. Got that?
>>> don't believe that this, the WoB rise to galatic power, was thought thru fully and thus the holes are showing up.<<<
There was no WOB "rise to galactic power," as you and everyone else here would know if you actually read the things you rant about.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
08/11/02 11:32 PM
4.35.174.250
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>>>There are not enough CANON mercenary units either for them to draw on<<<
Stop repeating yourself. It doesn't make you any less wrong (or any more right.)
>>>Bottom line is there not enough areas for the WoB to get the forces they need to even have a chance against any of the IS powers<<<
Thus why they didn't.
I think that's fairly obvious.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
08/12/02 01:08 AM
65.146.75.204
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Okay, Bob, read Explore Corps...that explains who hired most of the mercs NOT under the banner of the House Lords...
Now if that doesn't fill you, then a simple checking of the Merc Handbook will give you a listing of the Canon merc units...that should answer you questions.
Now if that fails to do so, well then I guess you believe the logic that a group that has at the most a limited projection capiablity of their own, with their main power being in the use of weapons of mass destruction, has limited allies and it's only other weapon is communcation interdection that has VERY limited usage...yes this group can really pull of this jihad that cause the being of the end for the Inner Sphere...
Been nice talking to you about this...hope you are having a nice day.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/12/02 01:11 AM
65.146.75.204
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The only thing obvious is that TPTB haven't but a lot of logical thought behind this...but since they HAVE appoved it we are stuck with it.
So how about letting us comment on it as we see fit...using the logical facts given via the game background which doesn't support, so again I hope you are having a nice day.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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PeterSmith
08/12/02 11:16 AM
67.37.184.47
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"Okay, Bob, read Explore Corps...that explains who hired most of the mercs NOT under the banner of the House Lords..."
Page 93 of EC:
In reply to:
In fact, ComStar can usually select units with Dragoon Ratings of A or B, while the DCMS must often accept units with Dragoon Ratings of C or even D to fill its mercenary needs.
So ComStar is hiring the better units (that they trust-everybody goes through a probationary period), leaving lower-rated merc units in the EC being under the employ of the DCMS (the other supplier of manpower for the Explorer Corps). Considering the Combine's position on mercenary units has not been the most favorable under the previous leadership I can understand why many mercenary units would not sign on with the DCMS.
"Now if that doesn't fill you, then a simple checking of the Merc Handbook will give you a listing of the Canon merc units"
Mercenary's Handbook (FASA #1616) looks into three Merc Units. The Eridani Light Horse, the Waco Rangers, and Wilson's Hussars. Only three. Further, the 3055 version of the book covers five additional Merc commands. It's the Field Manual that looks into the largest number of Mercenary units, 43 total. It's also the book with this line (on page 5):
In reply to:
Finally, the Mercenary Unit Briefs section is a sampling of the actual Unit Briefs Database maintained on Outreach.
It's not a complete list Karagin. Page 9 in the Field Manual also states that new mercenary commands "...forms every 1.65 Terran-standard days." as well as "...40 percent of all fledgling mercenary commands will be destroyed in battle or disbanded through bankruptcy within six months of their inception."
High turnover, no specific number of mercenary commands ever listed, and for what ammounts to the largest classification of mercenary commands, an employer with a history of being hostile towards mercenaries. It is really that difficult to believe that there are mercenary units available for the WoB to hire, espically when such units as Smithson's Chinese Bandits, the Fifty-first Dark Panzer Jaegers, and Herman's Hermits are employed by the WoB (and there are more-see pp. 48-49, FM:C*).
" guess you believe the logic that a group that has at the most a limited projection capiablity of their own"
Two systems (Gibson and Terra), but one is the single-most developed system (three developed planets as well as one of the few remaining WarShip-capable shipyards).
"with their main power being in the use of weapons of mass destruction"
Actually, that ranks number two on their list of powerful weapons, but you managed to get the right answer below.
"has limited allies"
Though only one and a half Houses are WoB allies (Sun-Tzu keeps things cold enough between House Liao and the WoB that they're not true allies) and a handful of the Periphery powers use the WoB, that's not something to dismiss. Espically when their largest ally, the FWL, has allowed the WoB to siphon off five percent of all weapon deals (ever since their inception, the WoB has been the arms broker for all FWL military equipment).
"and it's only other weapon is communcation interdection that has VERY limited usage"
If it's only of limited usage then why is it one of the most feared powers of ComStar/WoB?
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
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Karagin
08/12/02 02:31 PM
65.129.165.174
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Again I point out that they DON'T have the manpower to fill their needs, mercs are out since the little stunt the WoB pulled with the Lancers in taking Terra.
Having control of Terra that has at the most TWO planets inhabited, Venus according to the SL SB was going to be abandond do to enviormental problems, doesn't give them much. The world is more of a musem then an arms factory and according to CANON material the SOL system was tapped out natural resources before the SL was formed, you can find that in the SL SB...
So that also adds another mark against them being able to pull it off...
Their allies...I doubt that Thomas will do much since it risks exposing who he isn't and thus cause more harm then good. And Sunny plays everyone off against the other so he is not going to jump on their wagon unless he gains a lot for no cost.
And the Interdication while impressive to the civilians is easily defeated by the fax machines that the FC and DC have as well as using jumpships to bring in messages...slower both of these may be but they work, and given that ComStar is friendly with both the FedSun and the DC odds are an Interdiction will only work on worlds under WoB control or that have allowed WoB to run their HPGs....and this little trick doesn't even effect the Clans since they have their own...
Wow...three strikes against them, can't wait to see how this all explained away as the books come out...this is funnier then the Trekkies arguing over what to do with the Kilgons in Kirk's timeline (TV series) since they look nothing like the ones from Archer's or Picards...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
08/12/02 05:16 PM
132.234.251.211
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"Even then, those numbers would ONLY be required for a simultaneous assault on ALL planets!"
I thought that was what they did. Someone told me that they pulled off a bunch of high-level assassinations (including several Clan Khans) and then attacked every planet in the Sphere at once. Given what happened in the wake of their little "Jihad", I thought that sounded reasonable. But if they only attacked a few worlds, then maybe they could do what they are supposed to have done. It still doesn't explain what happens elsewhere in their plot lines, though- if the Free Worlds League and the ex-Terran Hegemony were the only ones seriously effected, how did the other scripted events happen? The Federated Commonwealth (Federated Alliance? Lyran Suns? Who knows, these days...) survived the Clan invasion and the Civil War. I doubt an attack from the lunatic fringe would collapse their House, especially given how slow news is supposed to travel throughout Davion space and how poorly educated its people are. The Kuritans are xenophobes, so they wouldn't care what happened in other realms, and even Kenji the Average DC Citizen is fanatically loyal to House Kurita. They wouldn't have fallen. I dunno. Maybe it's less a case of "could they have done it" than "why the *HELL* have Whiz Kidz done this to my game?"
Regardless of whether they had the necessary forces to attack the Inner Sphere wholesale, mercenaries or no, matters not. I really don't think these scripted events are possible. But that's just me.
Finally, Bob and Karagin: Stop baiting each other. You pair would argue over whether or not the sky is blue, I swear...
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
|
PeterSmith
08/12/02 06:19 PM
4.17.223.29
|
"I thought that was what they did. Someone told me that they pulled off a bunch of high-level assassinations (including several Clan Khans) and then attacked every planet in the Sphere at once."
You might want to double-check your sources on that one, or at least see in you can confirm a claim like that from another source. That sounds like somebody decided to fill in the blanks themselves.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
|
Nightward
08/12/02 06:23 PM
132.234.251.211
|
*Shrug*
Could be. That's all I had to work with, though. The "Jurassic Park Effect", eh?
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
|
Bob_Richter
08/12/02 09:46 PM
4.35.174.250
|
>>>mercs are out since the little stunt the WoB pulled with the Lancers in taking Terra. <<<
FM: Comstar p 47 will dispute you on that, as will the fact that WoB *is* hiring a number of mercenary units.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Karagin
08/12/02 09:50 PM
63.173.170.185
|
Which Comstar book Bob? The FM or the SB?
And I never said WoB wasn't hiring mercs...I said and please make a note of this, that there ARE NOT ENOUGH MERC UNITS THAT ARE CANON UNITS TO FILL THEIR RANKS TO ALLOW THEM TO HAVE THE MANPOWER TO FIGHT THEIR WAR.
Sorry for the caps but I want to get what I said and mean across to you so you understand it without any problems.
Do have a nice day.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
08/12/02 09:50 PM
4.35.174.250
|
>>>Someone told me that they pulled off a bunch of high-level assassinations (including several Clan Khans) and then attacked every planet in the Sphere at once.<<<
Someone lied.
>>>I doubt an attack from the lunatic fringe would collapse their House,<<<
It didn't. The Federated Suns and the Lyran (*spits*) Alliance are still alive and kicking.
>>>Kenji the Average DC Citizen is fanatically loyal to House Kurita. They wouldn't have fallen.<<<
They didn't.
>>>I really don't think these scripted events are possible.<<<
You're right. They aren't. Thus why they weren't scripted.
Seems to me you need to do a little more research before you come to conclusions.
>>>You pair would argue over whether or not the sky is blue, I swear... <<<
Only if Karagin would continue to insist that it weren't.
I don't "bait" Karagin, I just try to introduce him to reality. It rarely works.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Bob_Richter
08/12/02 09:52 PM
4.35.174.250
|
>>>Which Comstar book Bob? The FM or the SB?<<<
I said. Go back and read it again.
>>>that there ARE NOT ENOUGH MERC UNITS THAT ARE CANON UNITS TO FILL THEIR RANKS TO ALLOW THEM TO HAVE THE MANPOWER TO FIGHT THEIR WAR. <<<
And Peter Smith has aptly demonstrated that your evidence is insufficient to make that claim.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Karagin
08/12/02 09:55 PM
63.173.170.185
|
And you have all the facts that everyone who doesn't argee with the idea of the WoB and it's Jihad don't have?
As for baiting no you are not...you are simply attacking...
So have a nice day.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/12/02 10:16 PM
63.173.170.185
|
No Peter did not. All he proved was that there is NO WAY the WoB can do what is being claimed of them...
And I asked you WHICH BOOK? The Field Manual or the Sourcebook?
And again I point you to Explore Corps as to were a large amount of the Mercenary troops went...
The end results are this, even with what mercs WoB can get their manpower levels ARE NOT close to the levels needed to take on IS troops in number, and the quailty of their troops is a lot lower then the IS units they will be facing...so I can't see them taking one world let alone several and hold them for any length of time...
But it is clear you disagree with this and that is fine...so let's leave it at that before we have a flame war...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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novakitty
08/12/02 10:40 PM
209.242.100.230
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he said field manual
meow
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Karagin
08/12/02 10:51 PM
63.173.170.185
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All that says is three merc units are working for WoB...Three not hundreds...again that doesn't give them the levels of man power to take on IS front line units...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
08/13/02 03:46 AM
4.35.174.250
|
I haven't attacked you, Karagin.
Everyone else here will know if I do.
Though you probably can't tell the difference...! 
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Bob_Richter
08/13/02 03:51 AM
4.35.174.250
|
>>>And I asked you WHICH BOOK? The Field Manual or the Sourcebook?<<<
And I told you. Go back and read the post again. It's plainly stated, and not my fault that you missed it.
>>>And again I point you to Explore Corps as to were a large amount of the Mercenary troops went...<<<
Not at all. First of all, that's well-known. Second, the Explorer Corps aren't using THAT many units.
>>>so I can't see them taking one world let alone several and hold them for any length of time...<<<
With TWENTY REGIMENTS, you can't imagine them taking ONE WORLD?
>>>so let's leave it at that before we have a flame war... <<<
The only way we'll have a flame war is if you start it, and it will be quite one-sided.
>>>No Peter did not.<<<
Yes, he did. Go back and read the post again. (I'm getting sick of saying this.)
>>>All he proved was that there is NO WAY the WoB can do what is being claimed of them...<<<
Um. He was arguing against you. Quite effectively, in fact. Go back and...well, you know. Don't make me say it again.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Chas
08/13/02 02:12 PM
66.187.6.15
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And here I thought you knew your BT universe. (Just kidding.)
Where are the two places in the universe that someone who needs mech-sized muscle can go to when they need it?
Together, the first letters of these system names spell GO.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Karagin
08/13/02 02:42 PM
63.173.170.43
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Once more there ARE NOT ENOUGH CANON Merc units for them to hire...then there are the transportation problems along with money issues etc...
Sorry, but I am not buying this idea that they can attack any of the House and actually do any damage that warrants the rise of Stone and his ROS....but I am very sure we will have some trite and contrived plot reason as to WHY they can and so I guess we are stuck with it...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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realworldviews
08/13/02 04:21 PM
24.98.65.7
|
Why are you continuing to point out "CANON MERCENARIES"?
Heck, in the FM:Mercs they pointed out that the Mecrs listed in the book where only a small portion of the total Merc units in the IS. The ones noted where only the more well know units.
There are thousands of Merc units available, and ranging in size from single warriors to lance all the way up to battlion size. And that doesn't even include outcast clanners.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Karagin
08/13/02 05:51 PM
63.173.170.195
|
I am pointing it out because not all of the merc units are unemployed and for the WoB to get the needed man power from merc units they would have to hire every unit that is not all ready under the employment of a house or business group.
Then comes the issue of payment...and seeing how the hiring of large numbers of mercs would mean large amounts of money NOT going into buying of mechs and other items...so the issues that I have raised keep coming up and so far no one has yet countered them to the point that clearly shows that WoB has the reasources to pull off their Jihad in any form.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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PeterSmith
08/13/02 05:54 PM
4.17.223.29
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"Once more there ARE NOT ENOUGH CANON Merc units for them to hire"
You seem to have that thought embedded into your brain. Where, praytell, is there a complete list of all the mercenary units in BattleTech? Please cite book and page, just so the rest of us can confirm.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
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Karagin
08/13/02 05:56 PM
63.173.170.195
|
Think about it...if WoB hired every unit not employed by a House or ComStar they would NOT have any money left to pay for ammo, food, medical supplies, or even transport of their army any where...
And even with all of the smaller merc units hired most of them are not going to be up to the task of fighting house units...they are broken or low rated for a reason.
So how about you confrim or post where they are getting the manpower, money and resources to pull it off and that will end it....
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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PeterSmith
08/13/02 06:11 PM
4.17.223.29
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"So how about you confrim or post where they are getting the manpower, money and resources to pull it off and that will end it...."
And blow my NDA as well as any future opportunity to write for the game? Sorry Karagin, that's not going to happen. My girlfriend doesn't even get to see what I write, and there's no way you rate higher than her on my importance scale.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
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Karagin
08/13/02 06:16 PM
63.173.170.195
|
Great! Glad to hear it...now how about letting folks express their disbelief in the WoB Jihad...or is that not allowed?
I have given you the reasons I don't think they can pull it off. Money, manpower, material and reasources are not there...you disagree and at the same time have info that I and others don't have so telling me I am wrong without giving anything to back it up is really not doing anything more then arguing.
So let's get back to talking about the topic and less on the flames and other crap.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Edited by Karagin (08/13/02 08:27 PM)
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Nightward
08/13/02 06:31 PM
210.50.61.253
|
Nevertheless, you were a tad confrontational to me in my post as well. Perhaps it would be for the best if you did not reply to each other's posts? I'm not taking sides here- I feel both of you are equally stupid for prosecuting this feud. But you do both have interesting opinions, so I'll listen to what you have to say.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
|
ErichRaulfestone
08/13/02 06:52 PM
164.76.107.178
|
Hmm, I see I notice no reply tothe question at hand here.... nothing new.
Erich Raulfestone
Rangers, Lead the Way!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
Isaiah 6:8
......and I went......
|
Bob_Richter
08/13/02 06:57 PM
4.35.174.250
|
>>>Nevertheless, you were a tad confrontational to me in my post as well.<<<
I'm sorry if you felt I was overly confrontational.That goes for Karagin, too.
>>>I feel both of you are equally stupid for prosecuting this feud.<<<
I have no problem with Karagin.
>>>Perhaps it would be for the best if you did not reply to each other's posts? <<<
And I'm not going to ignore him just because he has a problem with me.
Anyway, we're way off-topic here.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
novakitty
08/13/02 09:32 PM
209.242.100.230
|
You demand a man break a contract just to win your favor in an argument? I expect that the authors are wise enough to avoid a miraculous, unexplained increase in resources. I also expect that there is much more covert WOB than you are willing to consider. The best way to win a war is to arrange that your opponent does not even realize you are attacking, this means hiding plans, resources, and size until as late in the battle as possible. However, the best way to defend is to loundly proclaim your abundance of forces, whether true or not. Fear and surprise are two of the greatest weapons in war.
The moral of the above rant is: "There is always more than you can see at first, only patience, contacts, and/or the best of stealth training will get you the answers you seek."
meow
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Karagin
08/13/02 10:10 PM
63.173.170.16
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No I don't demand anything other then those that have info not readially aviable to the rest of us stop dropping hints or making demands...
I posted the topic to get ideas and see how folks felt, NOT for TPTB to walk all over those who don't believe that a group who has more infighting then a guild of thives can pull off something this big.
Now if Peter is going to make demands then I can too...but you see I have listed what I feel are the problem areas, it's not my fault that is missed by the folks wanting to argue.
So can we now go back to the topic please...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightmare
08/14/02 01:47 AM
194.251.240.106
|
Who says you have to PAY those stupid mercs at all? Just enlist them, then break up the units and volunteer the individuals to regular WOB militia units "What? You don`t want to fight for Glorious Blake? BLAM! Now, does anyone else have a problem with this?" Hey, it`s the WOB version of the war to end all wars, so who cares about the methods? All will be forgiven when Great Blake is victorious.
Some of the larger units might be too much trouble to break up, so just send them into the grinder wholesale. Preferably against someone who won`t show them any mercy, so they`ll have to fight like rats all the way.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Greyslayer
08/14/02 01:53 AM
216.14.192.226
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One problem with that ... Wolfnet. If Wolfnet picks up something like you suggested happening at anywhere above a low level then WOB would have trouble being able to recruit any units through the Bonding Commission after this. Galatea mercs are a whole different kettle of fish though....
Greyslayer
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novakitty
08/14/02 07:41 AM
209.242.100.230
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If all went as WOB planned, there would be no "after this"
meow
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Chas
08/14/02 11:59 AM
66.187.6.61
|
In reply to:
Once more there ARE NOT ENOUGH CANON Merc units for them to hire
Who said anything about canon mercs? And what about the hundreds of other unnamed mercs? The demi companies, the guys with the less than savory reps who nobody likes to talk about. The tough guys with a mech and not much else.
As for transport issues. This is the WOB we're talking about here. They've been skimming vast sums of money from the FWL for the past how many years? Not to mention they control Terra, and HOW many shipyards?
The WOB is not some tiny group of fanatics with no friends. They have EXTENSIVE resources.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Chas
08/14/02 12:03 PM
66.187.6.61
|
Question: Who are the unnamed merc units employed to? And how long have they been on retainer?
Do you think the WOB is going to go "WE'RE BUYING ANY MERCENARY UNIT WHO'LL WORK FOR US! MONEYMONEYMONEY!" and being OBVIOUS?
The WOB is CRAZY, not STUPID.
The WOB has access to vast (VAST) sums of money. And lots and lots of technology and production facilities.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Karagin
08/14/02 12:05 PM
63.173.170.49
|
As I have said before the issues of money, materials and resources have NOT been answered and if they were to do as is being told to us then they would be broke.
So when the rabbit is pulled out of the hat I am sure it will be as far fetched as mech factories poping up out of thin air...
And again even if they hire the smaller lance size merc units and they actually get all of them, the issue of money and transport comes up again...
So I am sorry but I don't see how the WoB can pull this one off, but you and your buddies seem to think they can and thus it will happen...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Chas
08/14/02 12:07 PM
66.187.6.61
|
Put it this way Karagin. Peter is in a position to KNOW (not just guess, as you're doing). And he's disagreeing with you.
Look up. Has the little lightbulb on on yet?
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Karagin
08/14/02 12:08 PM
63.173.170.49
|
Sure they have vast sums of money...the same sums that are buying up whole production runs of mechs and paying for all the food and other supplies for their supposed army...right they have a lot of money...no doubt they have enough that they can do anything they want...in fact I am willing to bet with all this money they can conquer the IS and the Clans...not. 
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/14/02 12:10 PM
63.173.170.49
|
Let me put it this way to you...Given that he has info I and the other non-WK/FP workers don't have his comments are set up to bait...
If he has the info then he SHOULD NOT be comment as if we should already have the same since all it's going to do is cause folks to get upset or something will slip and then there will be a problem.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Chas
08/14/02 12:10 PM
66.187.6.61
|
In reply to:
Hmm, I see I notice no reply tothe question at hand here.... nothing new
Stop looking for a fight Erich.
Karagin asked him to do something that would violate his NDA. He declined, as he wishes to write for CBT in the future.
It was very much to the point.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Chas
08/14/02 12:17 PM
66.187.6.61
|
Who says that it's anywhere above a very low level?
Who ever stated that WOB went on a hire-fest in a short period of time? The WOB has been in existence and siphoning money from the FWL for how long now? 15+ years?
THey've been in control of Terra for how long now? 10+ years?
If you hire a few merc units every couple months, over the course of 15 years. What's going to tip WolfNet off? It'll look just like random hiring. Which every majjor faction in the universe does.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Karagin
08/14/02 12:17 PM
63.173.170.49
|
Hey Chas...who made you knight earrant around here?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
08/14/02 12:20 PM
63.173.170.49
|
All this money you keep talking about that you claim they have has to pay for everything...from mechs to manpower and all the little things inbetween...so they DON'T have unlimited ammounts to do all things claimed of them to launch this Jihad....maybe you and the others behind this idea really need to go and look at the issues of logistics and transportion of all of this and really think about it...because as it's given right now WoB should be broke finanically from this little venture.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Chas
08/14/02 12:22 PM
66.187.6.61
|
Karagin. How much was the WOB making off their commission (plus skimming) in the FWL. Also, what else have they been doing to bring in money?
Do YOU know?
It was addressed in one of the last books. The WOB SHOULD be broke. But they aren't. And they seem to have money coming out their ears. What does this tell you?
As for transport. Transport isn't an issue if the money issue isn't an issue. They can afford to hire transport.
And how much technology is the WOB privy to? Who says that some of these small units accepted CASH? Could not some of them been refitted?
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Karagin
08/14/02 12:23 PM
63.173.170.49
|
What it tells me is the add water get what ever you need line of thinking is still around...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Chas
08/14/02 12:27 PM
66.187.6.61
|
In reply to:
his comments are set up to bait...
Simply because he disagreed with you? If someone has money in their hand, and you get told "no" when you ask for some of it, is that person baiting you?
Something was pointed out to you (by me). You disagreed, and all he did was go "you haven't really looked at this from all angles yet".
As to folks getting upset. That's their problem. If they're going to get hysterical over a game, I'm not responsible for it. Nor is Peter.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Chas
08/14/02 12:29 PM
66.187.6.61
|
In reply to:
Hey Chas...who made you knight earrant around here?
Hey Karagin. How about you stop with the little attacks on my character and stick to the topic?
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Karagin
08/14/02 12:33 PM
63.173.170.49
|
How about you do the same?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Chas
08/14/02 12:34 PM
66.187.6.61
|
In reply to:
What it tells me is the add water get what ever you need line of thinking is still around...
Which tells me that you still believe they just pull things out of their *** on the spur of the moment. Which is unfortunate.
When they tell you that they HAVE thought through this stuff, and worked it from multiple angles, and foreshadowed the heck out of it previously, you still think they just pull a cord and plot devices pop up.
Apparently you keep discounting the fact that there are yearly (if not more often) braiinstorming sessions by the developers to chart out the path of the universe several years prior to anything seeing print.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Karagin
08/14/02 12:34 PM
63.173.170.49
|
None of this has anything to do with the topic so how about we get back on topic and stay there okay?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
08/14/02 12:37 PM
63.173.170.49
|
Not forgetting anything...I am basing my disbelief of this on the game facts as given and then applying some simple logic to the matter.
Again I am sure the rabbit will be very colorful once it comes out, but right now the facts and the idea of the Jihad don't match up in my opinion.
Is that to hard for you to believe? Is it to much for you or others to see that the fans can think and actually look at things and not believe it's possible based on and using game facts?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Chas
08/14/02 12:43 PM
66.187.6.61
|
The problem is that you're being VERY selective in which game facts you use to formulate your hypothesis.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Karagin
08/14/02 12:46 PM
63.173.170.49
|
If you say so...now back to the topic.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Chas
08/14/02 12:50 PM
66.187.6.61
|
In reply to:
If you say so
I do say so.
Thank you for bowing to the wisdom of The Chas.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Bob_Richter
08/14/02 12:53 PM
4.35.174.250
|
Consider how much money you'd make off the FWL's HP comm alone. Then add a percentage of the FWL's arms deals.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Bob_Richter
08/14/02 12:56 PM
4.35.174.250
|
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Karagin
08/14/02 01:00 PM
63.173.170.49
|
NOT.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
08/14/02 01:08 PM
63.173.170.49
|
And the watch it all go away as you buy mechs, ammo and other supplies, and hire or buy all the mercs and transport you can get...along with paying for all the covert ops that you will need...
Yes lots of money for a short peroid of time and then it's all gone...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
08/14/02 01:45 PM
4.35.174.250
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...because by the time your bills come due, you're MASTER OF THE BLOODY UNIVERSE.
Or not.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
08/14/02 03:05 PM
63.173.170.59
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Interesting...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/15/02 04:18 AM
63.173.170.181
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Yawn...bottom line is they don't enough money or material or manpower...and having Terra doesn't give them much of anything...but believe what you want...and I am sure the water theory of growing mechs and such will hold out.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/15/02 04:20 AM
63.173.170.181
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And maybe the Empoer allwoed them to use his clone labs on Byss and other planets in exchange for Mechs...or maybe the aliens from Far Country are allied with WoB and that is were they are getting their manpower...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Greyslayer
08/15/02 04:42 AM
216.14.192.226
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'If you hire a few merc units every couple months, over the course of 15 years. What's going to tip WolfNet off?'
Mercs are NOT stationary units. Once they finish their contract they get another one with the usual signing bonuses and so on. Are you seriously trying to tell me that they would keep mercenaries on say Retainer Contract for multiple years? Ouch!!! I've done the maths of a simple company on something like this for a year, not a very pretty value to be paid. Now when talking regiments of mercs under this system then it certainly drains say a House Coffer least of all some banana-split faction like WOB.
Now if I remember rightly Woflnet is better than ROM so just how small a takeup would trigger such an efficient force to realise the threat that WOB is posing toward merc units?
Greyslayer
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Nightmare
08/15/02 05:27 AM
194.251.240.106
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Obviously they only start the large-scale treachery when their attack is, say, 4-6 months off. It`s not uncommon for mercs to be on long assignments, is it? And it`s probably not uncommon for merc units to be destroyed in combat either. Just report a few small ones totally annihilated once in a while and assign the warriors somewhere they can`t get out. Like Mars? If your brainwashing techniques are good many of them will be loyal wobblies by the time your attack is about to launch.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Karagin
08/15/02 05:32 AM
63.173.170.181
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And the money to cover this is coming from where? Must be the money tree they have growing out back of WoB HQ...
All of this cost money, the need to keep the mercs in training, or do expect us to believe they sit around and do nothing? The money spent to KEEP OUT the prying eyes of CS ROM and WOLFNET, the money spent on transporting these merc units to their super seceret bases...it all adds up to them going BROKE setting this up..I wish I had their money tree then I could really buy that house that my girlfriend hinted at the other day...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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masdog5
08/15/02 05:33 AM
205.213.145.211
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Who says they have to have alot of men, materiel, and man-power to start this Jihad? Although the Wobbies may be crazy, they arent stupid. WOB, like Comstar before it, has a re-education program that is probably second to none in the IS, and re-educating POWs and civies to fight with them cant be that hard.
Also, one way an army keeps itself stocked is by picking up supplies as it goes along. The Houses all have supply depots that could easily be taken and used to supply Blakist units in combat.
But none of this matters right now. None of hte books involving the Jihad are out yet, and we wont know anything for sure until htey do come out. Until then, its pointless to debate(or shoot down ideas about canon merc groups) this.
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Greyslayer
08/15/02 05:36 AM
216.14.192.226
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The amount of resources you are spending on something like this would be better spent on getting people trained and in perfectly good mechs rather than the usually (unless you use FM:Mercs) poorly quality mercenary ones.
They still have Sandhurst on Terra right? Spend their resources there than trying to longterm mercenaries. the only advantage mercs provide is if you need a force to do something via a phoney employer... again though too much and the elite Wolfnet might crack who is doing or the reasons for the actions that are taking place and who is behind this. This could in effect make it very hard for Wobbies to use Harlech mercs.
Greyslayer
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Karagin
08/15/02 05:39 AM
63.173.170.181
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Pointless to debate? Sorry but with the given facts from the source material that is out NONE of it supports WoB having anything near enough of a force to do anything on scale of this Jihad we are expect to believe.
Yes, they can overrun house supply depots...but that doesn't give them the intinal numbers of men and material to start this little war nor does it explain HOW they got the billion man army to start with...as for the re-education camps...yes they have some right now, but not enough to give them mindless hoards of men and women willing to die for the greater glory of Blake and his twisted followers...
Sorry but the debate is about the lack of credital canon facts to support WoB being able to pull this off. And as others have said on many a BT message board the end results will be trite and contrived. So when the rabbit get's pulled out of the hat it should be a fimilar site to us since we have seen it before. Water+mechs= new factories...Water+one training site= millions of such sites...I think you see where I am going with this...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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masdog5
08/15/02 05:54 AM
205.213.145.211
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In the universe and timeframe that this occurs, numbers wouldnt be as important. 1st and foremost, there is a chaos march for them to conquer, which, although upseting or worrying the great houses, they would be too preoccupied with their own dealings to worry about this, imho.
Militarily, the greatest threat to the WOB just finished up a damaging civil war that did considerable damage to its military. The FWL, with the WOB primus at its head, would look the other way, and the CC and DC are busy integrating the NCs and former Sarna march worlds into their governments.
I think we are purposely being left in the dark about the WOBs actual capabilities. Nothing overt has been said about them except that they are interested in joining the Star League. If I remember SoF correctly, that application is being considered. That right there should make you stop and wonder about what is going on in the heads of the IS leaders.
Although you may disagree with me on this, one of the beauties of a universe as large as Battletech is they cant possibly catalogue everything. This gives the storyline developers and writers time to create any canon they need to fill the holes.
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Karagin
08/15/02 05:57 AM
63.173.170.181
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Basic canon facts are working against them on this but hey that has never stopped them before...
And even with the Civil War the FS and LC can still hold their own or would we not see Laio or Marik attacking them if this was not the case? But it's believable for WoB do the attack and they (FS/LC) can't do much to stop them...okay sure right...
I will agree with you on one point the writers can do anything they want...until the fans get tired of the same stories lines and water based factories popping up...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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realworldviews
08/15/02 12:16 PM
24.98.65.7
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Maybe it IS because they ARE going broke that they decide to launch the Jihad. Cause if you lose people can't make you pay themcause you will no longer be around, and if you win then you can pay them with what you take during the war. 
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Karagin
08/15/02 01:49 PM
63.173.170.224
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Now that would be a logical reason...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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realworldviews
08/15/02 02:34 PM
24.98.138.181
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Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Karagin
08/15/02 03:23 PM
63.173.170.201
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Logic is NOT something that is used a lot in the BT universe...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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PeterSmith
08/15/02 04:40 PM
4.17.223.29
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"Pointless to debate? Sorry but with the given facts from the source material that is out NONE of it supports WoB having anything near enough of a force to do anything on scale of this Jihad we are expect to believe."
Storms of Fate gives the WoB money. Lots and lots of money. WoB also has Terra and Gibson for production (moreso the first than the second). Even with the Terran system being mined out, ComGuards was still able to produce new WarShips. Takes money to do it, so what's preventing the WoB from doing the same?
Field Manual: ComStar and Field Manual: Periphery both state that the WoB are hiring mercenary units, dispite what happened with the 21st Century Lancers.
Face it, the Word of Blake is flush. 15% of all arms transactions to everybody outside of the Free Worlds League borders, figure from 3054 to 3064. Plus anything from running HPGs. Plus the licensing and/or assistance for the WarShip programs of the FWL and the CC. Plus whatever assets they took with them when they went to Gibson. Plus whatever they seized when they returned to Terra.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
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Karagin
08/15/02 05:30 PM
63.173.170.161
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Sure right okay whatever...sorry I don't buy it and won't until all the facts that are not out there on table show up, because right now EVEN WITH THE FWL MONEY they can't do everything that is being claimed and still be a threat to pull of the Jihad.
So on that note...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Chas
08/15/02 06:41 PM
66.187.6.36
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Question. Do you have any idea how much business the FWL was doing in the 13 years since they took over contract negotiations for the FWL? And from their HPG assets? Not to mention the fact that they're trading technology for production in both the FWL and the CC (as well as in the Periphery nations).
As for shipping them somewhere, who said they shipped them anywhere? Or if they did, was it or was it not under less threatening auspices. And who said that anyplace they were shipped was "super-secret"?
Read up in the FC:CW book about what happens after Group W lands on Galatea.
Also, remember that the WOB is a bunch of rabid frothing loonies. Who says they used Mercs at all? There ARE other ways to pacify an enemy.
And, in the event that said mercs WERE hired, how many of them do you think would REALISTICALLY survive a full-on assault to collect the balance of their payment?
You already have enough clues to work it out for yourself. Get working.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Chas
08/15/02 06:44 PM
66.187.6.36
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In reply to:
Sorry but with the given facts from the source material that is out NONE of it supports WoB having anything near enough of a force to do anything on scale of this Jihad we are expect to believe.
That's only because you haven't dug into the source material deeply enough yet.
Also, not everything has been been written out in advance. There are some things that are still unsaid yet about this event.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Greyslayer
08/15/02 07:14 PM
63.12.141.39
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Actually payment is still required. In fact the money is held in a trust fund UNTIL the completion of the contract or the unit is paid regularly from it so if WOB try something like this all they end up with is no money back from their actions. Of course everyone seems to be blindly missing this point, they mustn't really play mercs all that often  .
Greyslayer ..... merc and proud of it
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Nightward
08/15/02 07:31 PM
211.26.2.198
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To lock this thread down now, chief. Everyone's had their say and it is beginning to degenerate into flame war in parts.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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realworldviews
08/15/02 08:12 PM
24.98.65.7
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This thread is just beginning to get repetitive.
Everyone has an opinion and no one is going to change their opinion anytime soon.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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realworldviews
08/15/02 08:24 PM
24.98.65.7
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Which book is the FC:CW.
I can't figure out what book that is.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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realworldviews
08/15/02 08:26 PM
24.98.65.7
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The trust fund is only for the Mercs hired on Outreach. I would think that many of the Mercs hired would not be from Outreach.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Greyslayer
08/15/02 08:50 PM
63.12.141.39
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That is where the best in experience and the best in equipment are based. It is also the biggest hiring hall in the IS. I would say alot of units go through there or use the system of say having a third party holding the money in trust until the completion of the contract (a few if any would trust the WOB to be the third party if WOB decided to use phoney employers anyway). I would say even alot of the house merc units (such as those that go through the Mercenary Liason Office on New Avalon for house Davion) would still have the Dragoons method to ensure payment (especially in this time of brother vs sister FedCom-LyrAl War).
Greyslayer
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Chas
08/15/02 08:56 PM
66.187.6.70
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Actually, this is the way it works on Outreach, through the MRBC. It's not necessarily how it will work on Galatea.
And for "realworldviews".
FC:CW (FedCom Civil War)
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Chas
08/15/02 09:01 PM
66.187.6.70
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Correction: Outreach is where the "most respected" hiring hall is. Of course, this doesn't mean that deals that circumvent the MRBC don't take place. There's always units that have really bad MRBC unit ratings, and find a hard time getting "decent" employment. Some of these units, depending on how desperate they are, will agree to sub-rosa dealings if they feel the payment is worth the risks.
Also, AFAIK, the old ComStar/(WOB?) mercenary hiring board is still in place. Or at least I've never read where it'd been dismantled. Merely that it was surpassed by the MRBC on Outreach.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Greyslayer
08/15/02 09:04 PM
63.12.141.39
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Last information on Galatea isn't likely to have a large number of unit with any real number of operation mechs in them (considering they are not even good enough to go to Outreach). This would be where you would find at best 'C' style Wolf Dragoon rated mercs but mostly they would be 'D' and 'F'. This still doesn't stop them from using the method of having a third party holding the cash especially when they are directly working for WOB (or for a unknown employer). Money can be a tough mistress but I would still say they would need alot more than Galatea can ever offer from 3052-3070.
Greyslayer
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masdog5
08/15/02 10:34 PM
205.213.145.132
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Well, what do you want for it then? Do you want FP and WK to publish how the WOB pulls it off before the books come out?
Its going to happen according to the gods of the Battletech universe, whether you like it or not.
Stop thinking inside the box and try to plan out a Jihad like this yourself. Do you need alot of money to pull it off? Not if you plan it correctly. If I remember my FM:CC correctly, the Death Commandos were able to take a world in a week...and they only used their mechs on the last day.
Like I said in my earlier post, this Jihad could start quietly by having the WOB conquer worlds in the chaos march. The Houses could look the other way because 2 of them are recovering from a civil war, another from a conflict with CGB, and FWL and CC working with them. This would give the WOB PLENTY OF TIME to build up the resources nessecary to attack the the great houses.
Historically, this is how World War 2 started. Hitler slowly added regions to Germany while the rest of the world looked away because of their own problems.
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Karagin
08/15/02 11:26 PM
65.133.242.73
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Right....I haven't dug deep enough...oksy sure if you say so...I forgot you are always right and no one can buck the company line...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/15/02 11:29 PM
65.133.242.73
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What I would like is that those who have knowledge of events to come to stop dropping hints or jumping into a discussion and telling folks they are wrong in what they believe. If they would stop doing that then there would be little room for arguements and such.
It seems that none of those in the know want anyone speculating about things especially if they don't agree with the comming events...so that is what I want.
As for the rest, it's an interesting idea and thank you sharing it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/15/02 11:31 PM
65.133.242.73
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The point is even with the money skimmed from the FWL they DON'T have enough to do all that is being claimed.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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masdog5
08/15/02 11:57 PM
205.213.145.132
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'It seems that none of those in the know want anyone speculating about things especially if they don't agree with the comming events...so that is what I want.'
Then why start a thread on it?
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Karagin
08/16/02 12:01 AM
65.133.242.73
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Becaue I was looking for FAN input on how they felt about it and what they thought...thus talking about it should allow everyone to get an understanding of things and allow those who feel it's not possible to share that and to allow those who think it is to do the same and at the same time share ideas on HOW they see events unfolding with the hope that this helps generate ideas for some to use in their game...
But I guess that is wrong in the eyes of those who are in the Know.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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masdog5
08/16/02 12:21 AM
205.213.145.132
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From my perspective....and this is one of very little experience on these boards....it seems that whenever anyone throws out an idea in this thread, you shoot it down immediately.
I'm not saying the powers at be are right for squashing discussion about the upcoming Jihad. Thats farthest from the truth.
But it doesnt make it right for you to do the same thing they are trying to do.
Personally, I would prefer it if you had a reason to debunk any ideas, since that is all we can have until the book actually comes out, come up with reasons besides its not canon, so it cant be true. Offer ideas of your own, too...and I dont give a [deleted] if CBT and MW:DA staff dont like it.
As fans, we do have a right to discuss the BT universe. Especially in one that is as fan-driven as BT. If we didnt, we wouldnt have these posting boards.
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Karagin
08/16/02 12:26 AM
65.133.242.73
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I have expressed my points on why I don't think they can pull it off. Cash being one of them, logistical problems, manpower being the others as well as the covert end to hide all of this.
Now I am not trying to shoot anyone down, I am just trying to point out that things don't match what is being feed to us based on game facts. You are correct we don't know everything, and that is why I asked the question. To get ideas and if I came over as smacking down ideas, I am sorry, not what I was trying to do, what I was trying to do is get folks to look beyond the simple and really LOOK at things and then hope they see more of my point or something else and share that. That on top of getting folks to share ideas and maybe help give ideas to others was the main reasons...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/16/02 12:30 AM
65.133.242.73
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I would guess he is talking about the soon to be released FedCom Civil War Sourcebook...but I could be wrong.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
08/16/02 12:40 AM
210.50.57.145
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...are not the same. Whilst I personally agree with your views, the fact is that you abused other posters, and even a Moderator. Chas provides the hosting for this site; it is probably a bad idea to annoy him. If you truly wanted to exchange opinions and provide information, you could have done so in a much less confrontational way.
I really think it would be a good idea if no more threads on the theme of "and this is why MW:DA is evil" should be started.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
08/16/02 12:42 AM
65.133.242.73
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First off this is not about MWDA it is about the WOB Jihad.
Second, if telling Chas that I don't agree with is dangerous well that's between him and me and Nic.
As for being abusive, that can be worked on but it's a two way street...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Greyslayer
08/16/02 01:10 AM
216.14.192.226
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The last peice of data I have on Galatea was in the novel Star Lord. Since as such it was not a main plot novel nor do anyone seriously consider that book 'canon' its up to the person to decide if the info in it is correct.
From the Novel the planet has really gone down hill since Outreach took over as the main hiring hall. Since the novel was set in the late 3050's this should help prove my point, all the mechs there were 3025 mechs lucky to be functioning at times. Comstar has little or no control in this environment either more like a 'free-market' place where everyone has their hand on their sidearm. It has what can be loosely called arenas as well. I didn't find a large number of units in this novel on the planet.
Greyslayer
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Greyslayer
08/16/02 01:15 AM
216.14.192.226
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'If I remember my FM:CC correctly, the Death Commandos were able to take a world in a week...and they only used their mechs on the last day.'
That is hardly what I call a good source for information to prove your point. This is like my lower post about the information in the Novel Star Lord, people don't have to accept the information contained in the book (particularly the FM:CC rubbish ... even the novel Star Lord is better than that).
Greyslayer
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masdog5
08/16/02 01:17 AM
205.213.145.132
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What about the WOB meeting up with Clan Wolverine somewhere out in the Perphery? As a group (if it still exists), it could provide the needed units and other logistical concerns.
Plus, there could be motivation. If they captured Terra, they would embaress the other clans since an abjured one was able to do what the true clans couldnt.
Just another theory.
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masdog5
08/16/02 01:20 AM
205.213.145.132
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Thats a good point. Should I question all the FMs then?
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Greyslayer
08/16/02 01:35 AM
216.14.192.226
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That is purely up to you. Personally the only FM I have is the Mercs one and it didn't impress me much anyway.
Greyslayer ... member of the Mercs don't use XL engines group.
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Bob_Richter
08/16/02 03:57 AM
4.35.174.250
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Karagin, you'd say that even if we proved (by canon example.) they had enough money to raise a thousand regiments. You're just being contrary. The canon doesn't support you.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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realworldviews
08/16/02 10:03 AM
24.98.65.7
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Thats my guess.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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masdog5
08/16/02 11:18 AM
205.213.145.132
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The Canon doenst support anyone at this point. It hasnt been released yet.
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Chas
08/16/02 12:21 PM
66.187.6.81
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I've given you as many clues as I can. The information on how they do it IS in there. Just a couple peripheral facts haven't come forward yet.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Chas
08/16/02 12:30 PM
66.187.6.81
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Not "soon to be". FC:CW is released.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Chas
08/16/02 12:35 PM
66.187.6.81
|
Actually, the canon does support some of the people here. It's just that it's buried in such a way that most of you guys are going to smack yourselves upside the head afterwards and think "why didn't I think of that?"
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Karagin
08/16/02 01:28 PM
65.129.222.164
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Sorry but those facts don't make the outcome, so nice try thanks for the info.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/16/02 01:29 PM
65.129.222.164
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Until it hits the shelf at the local hobby shop it's a soon to be released...given that it's NOT OUT every where yet.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/16/02 01:31 PM
65.129.222.164
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Interesting thread idea there...which would lead to the Clans being really pissed...as well as leaving the IS in a tight spot.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/16/02 01:32 PM
65.129.222.164
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What ever Bob, I feel the canon material does, if you don't fine great.
Now if you don't have anything useful to add then don't.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/16/02 01:34 PM
65.129.222.164
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Sure it is...just like the mech factories popping up out of no where just because the TR says so...can't wait to see this rabbit and it's multi-arms...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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masdog5
08/16/02 08:01 PM
66.72.236.80
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Exactly....which is why the clans would come into the fighting on the IS side.
As for what happened to Clan Wolverine/Minnesota Tribe, there isnt much information. If Fasa ever got around to talking about what happened after the Minnesota tribe left the IS, then it was never released. So its plausible...only because of a lack of canon information (I may be wrong...i dont have any of the House SB or FM:Periphery).
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ErichRaulfestone
08/17/02 12:46 PM
207.75.136.249
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Im not looking for a fight, just pointing out the obvious. If you dont like it dont read it. Like you said to Karagin, people get upset,
thats THIER problem. Ill say it again, im not here to fight, so dont try to make look like one.
Erich Raulfestone
Rangers, Lead the Way!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
Isaiah 6:8
......and I went......
Edited by ErichRaulfestone (08/17/02 12:52 PM)
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Chas
08/17/02 04:10 PM
66.187.6.84
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Question. Why the heck are you so intent about beating your head off monoliths?
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Chas
08/17/02 04:11 PM
66.187.6.84
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Karagin. Simple english.
Released. Means they've shipped it and it's available.
Merely because it isn't on the shelf of your hometown hole-in-the-wall game store doesn't mean it's "soon to be released".
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"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Chas
08/17/02 04:13 PM
66.187.6.84
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Popped up out of nowhere?
You ARE joking right?
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"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Warner_Doles
08/17/02 05:36 PM
206.27.48.9
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First let me say that I do not intend to try to alter anyone's ideas or change opinions like this:In reply to:
'The only thing obvious is that TPTB haven't but a lot of logical thought behind this...but since they HAVE appoved it we are stuck with it.'
What I want to address is everyone's impression on just what the Jihad is all about.
Let me address Karagin's Post first:
Question: Do the Wobbies have the forces necessary to take over the Inner Sphere in a full blown prosecution of a war?
Answer: No they do not.
That being said... from a strategic stand point.. Do the Wobbies truly need to attack and take all the worlds? The answer to exactly what the Wobbies did and how they did it is or was up on the ComStar site...
So let me offer you this up as a question...
With all the forces that the Wobbies do have, and all the weapons they have available to them... how can they launch a Jihad and bring the Inner Sphere down to its knees?
This is how the question should have been asked, I believe. And this is the best I can offer up to you all. As Chas has stated, what, how, when, why and where have been there all the time. The fact that somethings haven't been said is another thing. And those things can be used to tie it all together. Those will be revealed soon enough. 
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