BattleTechWiki talk:Project BattleMechs
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Revision as of 18:22, 3 November 2006 by CJKeys (talk | contribs) (→Done So far and future projects)
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Contents
Articles: base model only or all variants?
- First, should we aim (not start out) having an article for each 'Mech type and variant? What I mean is, while each article also includes a very brief write-up of each variant, the link within that write-up takes you to that variant's article. Pro: specific infobox/article (and pic, for the Phoenix units) for each 'Mech. I'm also thinking there's no reason not to post the HeavyMetal record sheets, if we do this. Con: a lot more articles to write. --Revanche 14:19, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
- On this subject I would have to say that there are some major pros and cons. I know that writing up the initial 'Mech articles themselves vary in thier degree of difficulty due to the fact that the 'Mechs sometimes have one or two varaints and other times they have ten or twelve varaints. I have mentioned before that I began witht he writing style used for military vehicles on wiki. In that format unles there is a major difference, like say between the Blackjack BattleMech and Blackjack OmniMech, the variation of the basic design gets a small blurb describing the changes and the article moves on. Either way I can live with but I will say that simply doing the base models along with varaint info alone can be very time intensive, especialy on the older 'Mechs with tons of variants. Anyway. I just thought I woudl share my thoughts with you on this subject. --CJKeys 09:23, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
- Well, since there's the only the two of us on this Project, and after reading what you had to say about the numbers of variants involved, I feel inspired to table this. When most/all of BattleTechs base-model 'Mechs have been written, then the Project, with all of its members, can re-consider it. Agree? --Revanche 10:39, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
- In the later stages, once we have all the base models done I can see us doing a page for every varaint. --CJKeys 22:17, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
- I was planning on using the mech data HTMLs I previously generated on Sarna.net to create articles for each variant. I like the pages such as Assassin how they are now -- in addition to those, I would be auto-generating articles such as ASN-23 Assassin. Nicjansma 00:28, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
- In the later stages, once we have all the base models done I can see us doing a page for every varaint. --CJKeys 22:17, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
- Well, since there's the only the two of us on this Project, and after reading what you had to say about the numbers of variants involved, I feel inspired to table this. When most/all of BattleTechs base-model 'Mechs have been written, then the Project, with all of its members, can re-consider it. Agree? --Revanche 10:39, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
- On this subject I would have to say that there are some major pros and cons. I know that writing up the initial 'Mech articles themselves vary in thier degree of difficulty due to the fact that the 'Mechs sometimes have one or two varaints and other times they have ten or twelve varaints. I have mentioned before that I began witht he writing style used for military vehicles on wiki. In that format unles there is a major difference, like say between the Blackjack BattleMech and Blackjack OmniMech, the variation of the basic design gets a small blurb describing the changes and the article moves on. Either way I can live with but I will say that simply doing the base models along with varaint info alone can be very time intensive, especialy on the older 'Mechs with tons of variants. Anyway. I just thought I woudl share my thoughts with you on this subject. --CJKeys 09:23, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
- Consensus has us tabling this until the Project has hit the Base Model Articles milestone. Thanks. --Revanche 00:24, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
Separate Articles Based on Universe?
- Second issue: should there be some category difference between the gaming universes? That is, should there be CBT 'Mechs, MWDA 'Mechs, Game 'Mech categories? Some units cross between 'verses. --Revanche 14:19, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
- There shouldnt be a difference. Allready sevral of the 'Mechs I have written up have varaints listed from Record Sheets: Mechwarrior Dark Age. Unfortunately with many of the newer 'Mechs in MWDA, because of the roster card system, we do not in many cases have information as to what varaint is the baseline chassis which can make knowing what is and isn't a varaint somewhat hard. Eventually CBT and MWDA will have to catch up and when they do we will have tons of information, Until that point though information is limited. I could see some kind of stub like article that covers the basics about the design but to do an infobox on the MWDA units, unless they were in RS:MWDA1, in which case there is usually enough info to tell which is the base model based on designation numbers as well as the fact that there is information from the cards providing manufacturer and fluff info. --CJKeys 09:23, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
- Okay, I understand and it makes sense. However, then, maybe we should include categories at the bottom of articles where there are MWDA/CCG/Video Game variants listed? --Revanche 10:39, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
- Well as far as MWDA varaits, Most of them can be translated strignt from the MWDA source with only placement guessing if it is an existing mech with a few exceptions. As far as video game variants....Unfortunately I really never looked too har at the varaints in the games except to find flaws to fix while playing and some of them use such an abstract system, such as Mechcommander 2, to be nearly impossible to translate into the format of already existing TRO style info without being extremely vague. As far as CCG variants I wasnt aware that there were any variants unique to the CCG though there may have been and I am just unaware of thier existance. --CJKeys 22:17, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
- But isn't it true that only some of the CBT base models are represented in the other 'verses? If so, we could add categories, like Category:MWDA 'Mechs and Category:CCG 'Mechs to each of the base models where a variant is represented. --Revanche 00:26, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
- Well as far as MWDA varaits, Most of them can be translated strignt from the MWDA source with only placement guessing if it is an existing mech with a few exceptions. As far as video game variants....Unfortunately I really never looked too har at the varaints in the games except to find flaws to fix while playing and some of them use such an abstract system, such as Mechcommander 2, to be nearly impossible to translate into the format of already existing TRO style info without being extremely vague. As far as CCG variants I wasnt aware that there were any variants unique to the CCG though there may have been and I am just unaware of thier existance. --CJKeys 22:17, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
- Okay, I understand and it makes sense. However, then, maybe we should include categories at the bottom of articles where there are MWDA/CCG/Video Game variants listed? --Revanche 10:39, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
- There shouldnt be a difference. Allready sevral of the 'Mechs I have written up have varaints listed from Record Sheets: Mechwarrior Dark Age. Unfortunately with many of the newer 'Mechs in MWDA, because of the roster card system, we do not in many cases have information as to what varaint is the baseline chassis which can make knowing what is and isn't a varaint somewhat hard. Eventually CBT and MWDA will have to catch up and when they do we will have tons of information, Until that point though information is limited. I could see some kind of stub like article that covers the basics about the design but to do an infobox on the MWDA units, unless they were in RS:MWDA1, in which case there is usually enough info to tell which is the base model based on designation numbers as well as the fact that there is information from the cards providing manufacturer and fluff info. --CJKeys 09:23, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
Cost Included?
- I'd like to add the Cost summary for the base model to the InfoBox (thining in the Production Information part). How do you feel about that? And, if for it, should we also add it for the variants, after the BV? --Revanche 15:18, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
- Cost woudl be cool both in the base model box and the varaits. --CJKeys 22:17, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
- Consensus has Cost as a new table to be added to the BattleMech InfoBox. --Revanche 00:27, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
TRO in HTML form
- We nearly easily have the capbility of adding in the TRO information, as printed out by HMP. Since BTW is supposed to be an encyclopedia of all things BattleTech, I think we should include it. However, I say that with caveats: a) I don't think we should do it now, but after a majority of articles have been completed, b) 'they should only have been added for 'Mechs that have been public a year (significant grace period) abd c), the conversion from HTML to Wiki is not perfect. Each table within the TRO would require some formatting. I feel this is perfectly acceptable,, since Rick jumped thru so many hoops to get HMPro, with its HTML export feature, approved. (I'd draw the line at the fluff, as we're re-writing it already and I like how its being done.) So, is this (the HMP TROs) something we should add to the Scope of the Project? --Revanche 15:18, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
- In the later stanges, maybe when we start to go to making a page for each variant?? --CJKeys 22:17, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
- Ok, I see what you're saying. When we move past the initial milestone, we'll add meat to each new article by breaking out the variants and adding the TROs. Good idea. One-stop combined milestone. --Revanche 00:28, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
- In the later stanges, maybe when we start to go to making a page for each variant?? --CJKeys 22:17, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
Omnis in the title
- Good catch with the omnis (Firestarter, Blackjack), CJKeys. We don't need those ambiguations. Question for you: should we put the term Omni in paranthesis in the title, like Guardian (Conventional Fighter) is handled? --Revanche 09:03, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
- Either way works for me. Personally I would be incleaned to leave it as is but just let me know how you think it would best work. I know the only time it really becomes an issue is when you have an omni and a standard 'Mech of the same name. Kinda liek the planet/MEch with the same name issue that first cropped up when I ported my stuff over from battletech wikia.--CJKeys 22:25, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
- Yeah, I can see your point. I would say leave regular BMs as their name, but omnis that have regular BM counterparts would have (Omni) after their name. (Also, we should add "Category:Omni" to them also.) --Revanche (admin) 00:40, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
- Either way works for me. Personally I would be incleaned to leave it as is but just let me know how you think it would best work. I know the only time it really becomes an issue is when you have an omni and a standard 'Mech of the same name. Kinda liek the planet/MEch with the same name issue that first cropped up when I ported my stuff over from battletech wikia.--CJKeys 22:25, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
BattleMech Portal
- I would suggest making a Category or naming the mechs so they align by tonnage then alphabetically. comment by Veretax
- I agree with you that the 'Mechs should be categorized by weight class (and also by factions). If there's a way to do it thru the general BattleMech category method, then I don't know it. However, it should definitely be possible to add specific categories for 'Mech weight class. For example, we can put a two category tags for Assassin that would look like this:
- I agree with you that the 'Mechs should be categorized by weight class (and also by factions). If there's a way to do it thru the general BattleMech category method, then I don't know it. However, it should definitely be possible to add specific categories for 'Mech weight class. For example, we can put a two category tags for Assassin that would look like this:
[[Category:BattleMechs]]
[[Category:Medium BattleMechs]]
In fact, you've kinda given me an idea for a BattleMech 'portal' page, so that people can find their 'Mechs by the method they want. --Revanche 11:03, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
- The above was from a discussion Veretax started on the Custom template for 'Mechs, and it got me thinking. I could see us having a portals section on the main page for several categories (in fact, each could be added the Units section that is there now). When you click on BattleMech Portal, it takes you to a Main Page for BattleMechs. There are all sorts of links: general category, like we have now, weight class, faction lists, etc. We could include weapon types, etc. What do you think? If we wanted to do it, we should start once CJKeys finishes the 3025 'Mechs and fill those in accordingly. I can build the Portal Page. --Revanche 11:03, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
- I think that it woudl be a wonderful Idea. I knwo I use the general Mech listing that I originally constructed to know what 'Mechs come next for entering but it woudl be cool to be able to look them up by weight class, albpabetically and maybeeven cost and BV.--CJKeys 22:22, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
- I'm curious, cause I was looking for various ways to further select them. Your idea on cost and BV is interesting. How would you 'categorize' them that way? Maybe links to: weight, faction, cost, BV, etc. Then, when you click on that, it takes you to a sub-portal page, where you choose, say, your BV range: 1300-1400. All 'Mechs within that range would have a category tag that read "Category:BV13-14" Tell ya what...while you finish up 3025, I'll start on a test portal and see what we can do with it. --Revanche (admin) 00:37, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
- Cool, I will probly be done with 3025 soon, been making drafts for all the heavies, have to type them and then post them.--CJKeys 19:12, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
- Heavies done,m starting on assaults, nine left. With any luck will be done before the end of the week on 3025.--CJKeys 07:58, 1 November 2006 (CST)
- That's great, CJ. I'm hoping to get Nic's help on the portal site, but I started thinking: maybe we'll (you & I) want to star organizaing the 3025 'Mechs according to faction, BV, etc, so that follow on creators/editors understand the procedures for soing so. --Revanche (admin) 09:01, 1 November 2006 (CST)
- I am asuming we will base the faction and sorting information only on the "base model" mechs at this point. We can use the Faction List to make sure that the factions are correct. I would just need to know what I need to put into the articles as far as tags and such and I could go from there. We should also include the 2750 Mechs in that as well, they will primarily be C*, SLDF and WoB for the faction but they also woudl have the sorting for BV as well.--CJKeys 17:32, 1 November 2006 (CST)
- That's great, CJ. I'm hoping to get Nic's help on the portal site, but I started thinking: maybe we'll (you & I) want to star organizaing the 3025 'Mechs according to faction, BV, etc, so that follow on creators/editors understand the procedures for soing so. --Revanche (admin) 09:01, 1 November 2006 (CST)
- Heavies done,m starting on assaults, nine left. With any luck will be done before the end of the week on 3025.--CJKeys 07:58, 1 November 2006 (CST)
- Cool, I will probly be done with 3025 soon, been making drafts for all the heavies, have to type them and then post them.--CJKeys 19:12, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
- I'm curious, cause I was looking for various ways to further select them. Your idea on cost and BV is interesting. How would you 'categorize' them that way? Maybe links to: weight, faction, cost, BV, etc. Then, when you click on that, it takes you to a sub-portal page, where you choose, say, your BV range: 1300-1400. All 'Mechs within that range would have a category tag that read "Category:BV13-14" Tell ya what...while you finish up 3025, I'll start on a test portal and see what we can do with it. --Revanche (admin) 00:37, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
- I think that it woudl be a wonderful Idea. I knwo I use the general Mech listing that I originally constructed to know what 'Mechs come next for entering but it woudl be cool to be able to look them up by weight class, albpabetically and maybeeven cost and BV.--CJKeys 22:22, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
- The above was from a discussion Veretax started on the Custom template for 'Mechs, and it got me thinking. I could see us having a portals section on the main page for several categories (in fact, each could be added the Units section that is there now). When you click on BattleMech Portal, it takes you to a Main Page for BattleMechs. There are all sorts of links: general category, like we have now, weight class, faction lists, etc. We could include weapon types, etc. What do you think? If we wanted to do it, we should start once CJKeys finishes the 3025 'Mechs and fill those in accordingly. I can build the Portal Page. --Revanche 11:03, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
Reference Section Ordering
- I really should have brought this up here first, since it is a team project, but I've started re-ordering the references, from the current state of chronological to alphabetical. My reasoning is that it is not clear to the casual (non-Project BattleMech member) Editor if the chronological is by book publishing or era and ordering by alphabetical seems natural to me. I hope that's not a problem with you, CJ, but if it is let me know and we'll discuss. I'm not asking you to go back to the established articles to do this, either, as I'm hitting them as I add in the TRO references from my current book project. --Revanche (admin) 12:24, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
- I noticed you were doing that and since have made changes to the way I order my references so that they match. Thanks for the heads up on that though. --CJKeys 21:44, 27 October 2006 (CDT)
- Great and thanks. We work well together. Now, just to get some more people on baord! --Revanche (admin) 23:01, 27 October 2006 (CDT)
- I noticed you were doing that and since have made changes to the way I order my references so that they match. Thanks for the heads up on that though. --CJKeys 21:44, 27 October 2006 (CDT)
Done So far and future projects
- I have completed both Technical Readout 3025 and Technical Readout 2750. At this point I will start writing up thge drafts in notepad for the 3050 'Mechs that way I will be able to add any tags that wil be added for the BattleMech Portal project when I put them into the Wiki.--CJKeys 15:40, 2 November 2006 (CST)
- Finished TRO 3050 Lights, Mediums, and heavies. Only Assaults left. --CJKeys 16:22, 3 November 2006 (CST)