Q.V. HLSB & Bp 4th War
I have deleted the two "Update Needed" tags pertaining to House Liao (The Capellan Confederation) and BattlePack: Fourth Succession War because the (apocryphal) ECM 3025 was a special case - this apocryphal piece of equipment was invented by the MechForce Germany, adapted and officially published by FanPro for the German edition of the Solaris VII Boxed Set (Solaris VII: The Game World#Arena-Planet Solaris VII), but it was never published in English. When proper rules were made for the 3025-era Raven's electronic suite they supplanted and de-canonized the ECM 3025 (if you assume it was ever canon, which is arguable).
To summarize, ECM 3025 was a very specific, German-only set of rules for an item that canonically never existed as such. Updates in other products refer to the "actual" item that was retconned into the 3025 Raven, never to the ECM 3025. Frabby 20:48, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
- Not sure what you are trying to say... it is Canon that there was an ECM Carried by the Raven in the 3025 - 3028 period.. the Tonnage and Mass are Verifiable from the TRO in HLSB, and the description in that TRO fits the Broad stokes of this article. appears that all that Mech Force Germany only turned the Broad Strokes into explecit rules & supplied other stats that were lacking. Is there a Seperate Article devoted to the Canon variant of the ECM 3025?--Cameron 20:16, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
- "The Raven, as envisioned, will typically stand off in an engagement and identify selected targets for indirect fire by artillery and infantry. It's ECM allows it to identify targets at longer than normal ranges and to degrade EW techniques by enemy units." tons, 7.5, crits 4, ECM EQUIPMENT - House Liao (The Capellan Confederation) so the equipment is definately canon... i could see this being made a subpage of the main ECM page as ECM/3025 (MechForce Germany) or ECM/(MechForce Germany) or even ECM 3025 (Mech Force Germany)--Cameron 23:46, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
- While it is a canonical fact that the 3025 Raven carried an electronics suite of some sort, the "ECM 3025" as described in this article is an apocryphal item invented by MechForce Germany/FanPro Germany. Neither its name nor the rules pertaining to it are canon. Thus, we must not assume that this is the item which the 3025 Raven really had; instead, TacOps introduced a different item called "EW Equipment" and explained that this is the item referred to in canonical sources. The ECM 3025 which was always apocryphal at best is retroactively superseded/overruled by the EW Equipment with its different rules. As a consequence, game rules always refer to the EW Equipment and never to the ECM 3025. That is why I removed the "Update needed" tags.
- I see your point about maybe moving the article to ECM 3025 (MechForce Germany) or better yet, ECM 3025 (FanPro), but I don't think it is neccessary - there is only one item named ECM 3025 after all, and it is clearly marked as apocryphal with the reference to the EW Equipment mentioned under "Canonicity".
- (As a sidenote, it always bugged me how the Raven's equpiment was gradually transformed into an all-purpose EW testbed; the initial description essentially markes it as a long-range TAG and I think it was Stackpole who first misinterpreted the admittedly misleading description "ECM gear" to mean it actually contained a jamming device - which makes little sense on such a small and weak 'Mech.
- Hope this makes a bit more sense. :) Frabby 07:54, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
- The ECM & AP appear to have been intended from the beginning as special features of this piece of equipment... the Missile Bonus seams to have started as just the use of the Mech as a Spotter unit. Also... just because the HLSB didn't call it ECM 3025 doesn't mean that the article main article for it should be devoted to apocryphal rules written after the canon rules for the Guardian ECM were published (hence the 3025 added.) perhapse ECM 3025 as a disambig page with MechForce Germany being a sub page/ etc... any one surfing the articles only familiar with the hlsb would be nonplussed--Cameron 11:50, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
- Um, yes, it's actually the other way 'round: This article is about the apocryphal item, not the (otherwise unnamed, as you correctly point out) electronics suite on the Raven - for which canonically, the name 'EW Equipment' has been established. I thought the article's section labelled "Canonicity" made that sufficiently clear. I have included an Otheruses tag following your suggestion. Frabby 12:40, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
- I know what the article is covering... I am more approching it from the standpoint that all of the Apocryphal articles should be tagged with the Source (BattleTechnology), (MechForce NA), (MechForce UK), (MechForce FRG), etc... that way the name is left open for any canon replacements...--Cameron 14:50, 7 January 2011 (UTC)