Difference between revisions of "Policy Talk:Images"

1 Policy creation
2 Thumbnails

The following is an archived discussion of the included proposal. Please do not modify it.

Policy creation

Gallery test

Generally there should only be one image of the unit in the infobox.

If there are more images you'd like to add to the page feel free to do so, but remember that it's easy to overload the page. For this reason please try to put the images below the text content of the page.

If there are more than four images (It seemed like a nice number), the images are very large, or you just want the page to look nice, please consider adding a "Gallery" section to the page. This will do a few things:

Present the images in a nice, consistent way.
Keep the images and text separate so Editors can find what they're looking for.
Add a link to the Table of Contents so everyone can see your images easily.

To create a Gallery, all you need to do is edit your page and include this code:

====Gallery====
<gallery>
File:IMAGEFILENAME|Image caption text
File:IMAGEFILENAME|Image caption text.
</gallery>

The Warhammer page uses this method to bring the images together. Here's the code:

====Gallery====
<gallery>
File:WarhammerInternalSchematics.jpg|The internal schematics of a ''Warhammer''. Note the pilot on the right.
File:Warhammer.jpg|''Warhammer'' from the cover of the original box set.
</gallery>

And here's what it looks like:

Gallery

The internal schematics of a Warhammer. Note the pilot on the right.
Warhammer from the cover of the original box set.

Discussion

This is just a sample to kick off a discussion. It isn't actual policy yet, even though that word appears in the header. (I did this so User:Revanche could take a break from writing policies for a while.)

Please feel free to add comments to this page, but please do so ABOVE the "gallery test" heading. Thanks!

To Be Discussed

What kind of images are allowed?
Attribution of images?
Copyright? (Should fit within BattleTechWiki:Copyrights policy)

Comments

Okay, first off, I think Wikipedia's image use policy is a must read for research purposes. A number of their policies have to do with copyright issues, which are different for us. In the interest of not reinventing the wheel, I think we should use:

Always specify on the description page where the image came from (the source) and information on how this could be verified.
Use a clear, detailed title. Note that if any image with the same title has already been uploaded, it will be replaced with your new one.
Crop the image to highlight the relevant subject.
The images in the gallery collectively must have encyclopedic value and add to the reader's understanding of the subject. Images in a gallery should be suitably captioned to explain their relevance both to the article subject and to the theme of the gallery, and the gallery should be appropriately titled (unless the theme of the gallery is clear from the context of the article). Images in a gallery should be carefully selected, avoiding similar or repetitive images, unless a point of contrast or comparison is being made. Just as we seek to ensure that the prose of an article is clear, precise and engaging, galleries should be similarly well-crafted.
However, Wikipedia is not an image repository. A gallery is not a tool to shoehorn images into an article, and a gallery consisting of an indiscriminate collection of images of the article subject should generally either be improved in accordance with the above paragraph
Note that it is not recommended to use animated GIFs to display multiple photos. The method is not suitable for printing and also is not user friendly (users cannot save individual images and have to wait before being able to view images while other images cycle round).
Articles may get ugly and difficult to read if there are too many images crammed onto a page with relatively little text. They may even overlap. For this reason, it is often a good idea to temporarily remove the least-important image from an article and queue it up on the article's talk page. Once there is enough text to support the image, any contributor is free to shift the image back into the article. If a contributor believes such a queued image to be essential to the article, despite the lack of text, he or she may decide to put it back in. However, he or she should not simply revert the article to its previous state, but make an attempt to re-size the images or create some sort of gallery section in order to deal with the original problem.

--Scaletail 00:25, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree with all those points, particularly #1 (Always specify on the description page where the image came from and how that can be verified.) and #5 (~~Wikipedia~~ BattleTechWiki is not an image repository).

As for pages becoming too ugly and difficult to read, that's why I suggested

That there be only one image in the infobox.
That we encourage the use of a gallery tag to hold all the images. This is particularly important with 'Mechs that have a lot of variants, like the Warhammer and Archer.

Originally I said to use a gallery only if you had 4+ images, or wanted to make it look nice, but if we keep the pages consistent that would be better.--Mbear 16:03, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Guidelines, Take Two

Images should be relevant to the article and in some way contribute to understanding the article.
BTW is not an image repository. Just as you write high quality article text, include high-quality images. (You can put links to the images on the article's discussion page until you've got a good version or you want feedback.)
When appropriate, images should be cropped to show only the relevant portions. (Don't include a full Warhammer image if you're only discussing the SRM-6.)
Images must have a relevant and descriptive name.
1. Image names like mech.jpg or bookcover.jpg are not useful.
2. If you upload an image that shares the same name as an image already in the wiki, the new image will replace the second.
The image's description page should list the source of the image. (That's why the file upload page has that big textbox labeled Summary. )
Images in an article should have a descriptive caption, unless they're in an infobox.
"Infobox pages" (used by combat units, combat commands, and weapons among others) should only have one image in the infobox. All other images on these pages should be contained in a gallery.
1. Avoid using repetitious images in the gallery unless you're comparing differences.
2. Images in a gallery should always have a descriptive caption.
Images on pages without an infobox should appear next to or near the topic they're discussing. For example, the Colonel page shows the rank insignia for each faction is shown near the header. Maps in the Fourth Succession War article would be included in the relevant section for each front or wave.

I'm going to expand these soon, but I wanted to get my thoughts down before they run away. I used the numbered list to make it easier for editors to comment. (Personally I find it easier to say "I don't agree with rule 7.1" than "I don't agree with the tenth bullet item." or whatever.) --Mbear 14:09, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Can you please explain "...as well as how that source can be verified"? How would that be different than providing the source & page? --Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 18:52, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

I can best explain it by saying "Oops!" Originally it was in a different order and I guess I didn't update it completely. Removed offending fragment.--Mbear 19:10, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Copyright Tags

Wikipedia has a lot of image copyright tags that automatically add the license of the image to the upload. Does anyone know if BTW has these (or something similar)?--Mbear 16:03, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

We don't, mostly because it's not necessary. Every BT image is owned by Topps, under license to CGL. There's only a smattering of images that don't fall under that. --Scaletail 00:49, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Nutshell content

This page in a nutshell:
1. All images must adhere to the BTW Copyright Policy.
2. Images should explain how they meet the Copyright Policy on their description page.
3. Images should have a source or attribution that can be verified listed on the description page.
4. Images should be relevant to the article.

Any changes I should make?--Mbear 19:29, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

In order for 1 & 2 to work, we would need to amend the copyright policy. Images owned by Topps, Inc. don't fall under GFDL. I agree with 3 & 4.--Scaletail 00:53, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

OK. So how about this:

This page in a nutshell:
1. Images should be relevant to the article.
2. Images should have a source or attribution that can be verified listed on their description page.
3. There should be only one image in the Infobox, other images should appear in a gallery.
4. Images in a gallery should have a descriptive caption.

--Mbear 13:29, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I like these.--Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 13:46, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

I like it. --Scaletail 15:48, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Status

Mbear, it appears that the policy discussion is winding down. If you agree, I'll write up a consensus review for the decision phase, as the final step before the policy is written. --Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 11:21, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Sounds good.--Mbear 12:06, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Possible Image Policy Page

Based on the feedback I've received, I put together the following sample showing what would appear on the Policy:Images page.--Mbear 14:15, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Guidelines

Images should be relevant to the article and in some way contribute to understanding the article.
BTW is not an image repository. Just as you write high quality article text, include high-quality images. (You can put links to the images on the article's discussion page until you've got a good version or you want feedback.)
When appropriate, images should be cropped to show only the relevant portions. (Don't include a full Warhammer image if you're only discussing the SRM-6.)
Images must have a relevant and descriptive name.
1. Image names like mech.jpg or bookcover.jpg are not useful. Image names like CloudCobra-StarCommanderInsignia.png and TRO3075-CoverImage.jpg are useful.
2. If you upload an image that shares the same name as an image already in the wiki, the new image will replace the older one.
The image's description page should list the source of the image. (That's why the file upload page has that big textbox labeled Summary. )
Images in an article should have a descriptive caption, unless they're in an infobox.
"Infobox pages" (used by combat units, combat commands, and weapons among others) should only have one image in the infobox. All other images on these pages should be contained in a gallery.
1. Avoid using repetitious images in the gallery unless you're comparing differences.
2. Images in a gallery should always have a descriptive caption.
Images on pages without an infobox should appear next to or near the topic they're discussing. For example, the Colonel page shows the rank insignia for each faction is shown near the header. Maps in the Fourth Succession War article would be included in the relevant section for each front or wave.

Galleries

For pages with an infobox and a lot of images please consider adding a "Gallery" section to the page. This will do a few things:

Present the images in a nice, consistent way.
Keep the images and text separate so Editors can find what they're looking for.
Add a link to the Table of Contents so everyone can see your images easily.

Using a gallery is particularly useful on pages where the unit has many variants and images of them, like the Warhammer page.

To create a Gallery, all you need to do is edit your page and include this code:

====Gallery====
<gallery>
File:IMAGEFILENAME|Image caption text
File:IMAGEFILENAME|Image caption text.
</gallery>

The Warhammer page uses this method to bring the images together. Here's the code:

====Gallery====
<gallery>
File:WarhammerInternalSchematics.jpg|The internal schematics of a ''Warhammer''. Note the pilot on the right.
File:Warhammer.jpg|''Warhammer'' from the cover of the original box set.
</gallery>

And here's what it looks like:

Gallery

The internal schematics of a Warhammer. Note the pilot on the right.
Warhammer from the cover of the original box set.

Consensus Review

Consensus of this emerging policy has led to the following conclusions:

Only one image is to be used per infobox.
If more than 4 thumbnail images (not counting one displayed in the infobox) are to be included, if the article is too small to allow an easy fit of additional images or if the images are over-sized, a gallery of images will be inserted following the primary text of the article (but before the references section). [The demo code be included in the policy.]
All images uploaded to BTW are required to have the source (with page number) included in the Summary field of the "Upload file" page.
All uploaded images are to be titled with a name specific and clear to the image depicted. Consideration should be given to previous images uploaded that bear the same name (as they will be written over, if the name is not varied).
The image to be uploaded should be cropped to highlight the relevant subject.
The images in the gallery collectively must have encyclopedic value, relevant to the subject and add to the reader's understanding of the subject. Images in a gallery should be carefully selected, avoiding similar or repetitive images, unless a point of contrast or comparison is being made.
All gallery or thumbnail images (outside of the infobox) must include a caption relevant to the subject.
It is not recommended to use animated GIFs to display multiple photos.
If too many images are present in relation to the text (including those within a gallery), the least-relevant images may be 'stored' on the article's talk page, until that time the article has been suitably lengthened to accomodate more images.
BattleTechWiki is not an image repository. Each uploaded image shall be used within at least one article (or its talk page).
Thumbnail images (those outside a gallery) shall be placed closest to the relevant information within the text of the article. [Demo code will be provided to create thumbnails in the policy.]

Consensus Support/Non-Support

Please state either your support or non-support for this policy, per the listed "Consensus Review" points:

Support: definitely a worthy policy; I also support a general Files policy that would incorporate many of these same points. Good work, Mbear. --Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 14:36, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Support: seems fine to me. --Neufeld 19:18, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Support:But I'm biased.--Mbear 19:29, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Support: I think it's good. --Scaletail 01:07, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Consensus Summary: Proposal passes. Closed on 06 April 2010

The above is an archived discussion of the included proposal. Please do not modify it.

Thumbnails

Speaking only for myself, I really hate having the thumbnail images that just float around part of the article. Drives me absolutely insane.--Mbear 11:54, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I can live with that (your insanity). Personally, when well-done, I do like them. That's why I move some to better fit next to the item they visualize. And don't think I didn't notice that you brought this up minutes (minutes!) before I was announcing the new policy. --Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 12:00, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I figured you were OK with me going nuts. I tried to remove the floating thumbnails by encouraging the use of a gallery, but oh well.--Mbear 14:37, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

"If it weren't for those meddling kids..." Seriously, though, I'm gonna go live with the policy here shortly and if we had wanted (which this we doesn't) to cut out thumbnails, we should have said just that. But, with so many Wikipedians here, I think you'll find people who favor thumbnails as informative visuals. The gallerys seem like a good place for "Oh, by the way, here are some more images of a Warhammer". --Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 15:30, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Those are all good points. Like the Capellans say, "You can't win them all."

--Mbear 15:39, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+__TOC__
+{| class="navbox collapsible collapsed" style="text-align: left; border: 0px; margin-top: 0.2em;"
+|-
+| style="text-align:center;" | ''The following is an archived discussion of the included proposal. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>''
+|-
+! style="background-color: #FFFFE0; font-weight:normal; text-align:left;" |
 ==Policy creation==
 === Gallery test ===
@@ Line 174: / Line 182: @@
 * '''Support''':But I'm biased.--[[User:Mbear|Mbear]] 19:29, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * '''Support''': I think it's good. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 01:07, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
+'''Consensus Summary:''' Proposal passes. Closed on 06 April 2010
+|-
+| style="text-align:center;" | ''The above is an archived discussion of the included proposal. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>''
+|}
 ==Thumbnails==
 Speaking only for myself, I really hate having the thumbnail images that just float around part of the article. Drives me absolutely insane.--[[User:Mbear|Mbear]] 11:54, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

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Difference between revisions of "Policy Talk:Images"

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Revision as of 11:50, 6 April 2010

Contents

Policy creation

Gallery test

Gallery

Discussion

To Be Discussed

Comments

Guidelines, Take Two

Copyright Tags

Nutshell content

Status

Possible Image Policy Page

Guidelines

Galleries

Gallery

Consensus Review

Consensus Support/Non-Support

Thumbnails

BattleTechWiki

Search

Editing BTW

Background

Current Game Systems

Admin Pages

Tools