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| | :''[[User talk:Frabby/Archive1|Archive 1]]'' (created 04 January 2012) | | :''[[User talk:Frabby/Archive1|Archive 1]]'' (created 04 January 2012) |
| | :''[[User talk:Frabby/Archive2|Archive 2]]'' (created 01 January 2013) | | :''[[User talk:Frabby/Archive2|Archive 2]]'' (created 01 January 2013) |
| | + | :''[[User talk:Frabby/Archive3|Archive 3]]'' (created 03 January 2014) |
| | + | :''[[User talk:Frabby/Archive4|Archive 4]]'' (created 04 January 2018) |
| | + | :''[[User talk:Frabby/Archive5|Archive 5]]'' (created 07 January 2021) |
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| − | == Hunan ==
| + | Feel free to leave a message. :) |
| − | I'm glad that you found the wrong co-ordinates for Gotterdammerung. I was wondering if you could take a look in your atlas of the Inner Sphere for [[Hunan]]. It's placed on the map here to the northeast of New Avalon, but it's listed as being part of the Capellan confederation and as having been part of the Terran Hegemony. I think this must be wrong, but I have no way of checking it. If it's possible, could you take a look?
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| − | Follow up: The co-ordinates are listed as: (X: 333.04 Y: 333.04)
| + | As of 07 Jan 2021, I archived all content on my talk page because I reckon there were no pending issues. |
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| − | Thanks, --[[User:Workerbee|Workerbee]] 09:41, 30 May 2008 (CDT)
| + | == The Nellus Academy Incident == |
| − | :It is located in the triangle formed by [[New Aragon]], [[St. Andre]] and [[Foochow]], fairly exactly "north" of [[Zaurak]] and [[Kaifeng]]. The Atlas gives the coordinates as X: 73,04 Y: 96,76
| + | Hi Frabby,<br> |
| − | :Btw it is a known problem that the planet's X/Y coordinates are wrong. When the entries were auto-generated, the X-coordinate were erroneously put into both the X and Y slot. Nic is aware of this and it will hopefully be corrected in a future update. (See [[Category talk:Planets# Major Problem with Coords]]). [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 13:10, 30 May 2008 (CDT) | + | Have you read ''[[The Nellus Academy Incident]]''? I've just finished reading it, and there are a few details in it that are making the canon-processing part of my brain itch a little. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 16:49, 9 January 2021 (EST) |
| − | | + | :Read it via BattleCorps; I also have the PoD standing on my shelf. Was going to produce a proper article, but since it ultimately seems like a side story of little relevance it got pushed back. I think I know what itches your brain though. :) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 01:33, 10 January 2021 (EST) |
| − | Thanks again. --[[User:Workerbee|Workerbee]] 15:24, 30 May 2008 (CDT)
| + | ::I'm going to keep reading the author's books - it was a good YA SF read - but I singled out three things that felt anachronistic to me: sending messages to and from Nestor via the jump point of somewhere near Gienah without an HPG, the presence of a COM-2Dr ''Commando'' which is a Jihad-era refit according to TRO-3085 in a novel set in 3067 (with it being a well-known enough variant for FWL cadets to recognise) and the ending section where the four-hundred thousand tonne ''Monolith'' class JumpShip was accompanied by WarShips "more than twice its mass" which at the time, can only be the ''Fylgia'' and ''Yggdrasil'', which seemed a bit of a stretch... I'd been thinking of trying to write up the summary for the webpage, but I'm not sure how to reconcile novels being the highest level of canon with these odd details. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 03:13, 10 January 2021 (EST) |
| − | ::Wouldn't that be (73.04, '''-'''96.76?), as Hunan is "south" of Terra? Since you've become the planetary coordinate guru, would you be able to check and make sure that the [http://cf.sarna.net/data/planets/iscs/planall.zip master file] has as that data correct? I've already corrected Menkent, Blue Diamond, Gotterdammerung, and Hunan. Specifically, could you check out [[Sakhalin]], [[Scituate]], [[Cartago]], and [[Chamdo]]? Thanks! --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 17:42, 1 June 2008 (CDT) | |
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| − | Yes, you are absolutely right: Hunan is at Y -96.76, sorry! Regarding the others:
| + | == Fortune Charlie == |
| − | *There are in fact two systems by the name of Sakhalin: One is a CapCon/Sarna Supremacy world at X: 62.33 Y: -142.92, the other a Lyran world at X: -24.25 Y: 153.09. The one on this wiki is the CapCon world, Sakhalin (LC) is missing as of yet. I had already noted it on the article some time ago (CC/SS world is spelled Sachalin in German material, but not in the original English sources).
| + | Hi Frabby, I have not re-read the books, but from what you say, I nevertheless thing temporarily we should keep the information there and link to Operation CERBERUS once done, otherwise this piece of lore would be easily forgotten (at least for me).--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 07:21, 12 January 2021 (EST) |
| − | *Scituate has X: 88.67 Y: -221.94 in my Atlas. The wiki apparently used a positive Y coord, as it is erroneously shown at approximately the same altitude as Mannedorf (which is Y: 228.98).
| + | :Cerberus and its sub-commands is covered in quite some depth in the novella ''[[A Splinter of Hope]]''. If and when I get around to doing an article on Cerberus, Task Force Styx and Fortune Charlie within it will likely feature rather prominently. But I firmly believe Fortune Charlie should only be a redirect to the proper operation that it was a small part of. Calling Fortune Charlie a unit is at least misleading if not outright false, and as such I felt I couldn't just leave it there. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 04:57, 13 January 2021 (EST) |
| − | *Cartago placement seems to be correct (at X: 141.09 Y: -10.17)
| + | ::I read it yesterday, and it is true what you say. As members of "Fortune Charlie", only one unit is spoken by name, the others are considered an assorted mix of units, like Jihad era conglomerate of small mercenary commands by Devlin Stone. |
| − | *Chamdo placement also seems to be correct (at X: 10.43 Y: -153.61); however, in the immediate vicinity [[Yunnah]] seems to be slightly misplaced. The correct coordinates for Yunnah are X: 27.67 Y: -124.13. It ''should'' be halfway between [[Corey]] and [[Second Try]] but here it is erroneously shown on the same altitude as [[Tsinghai]] and Chamdo, at Y: -153.61.
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| − | Checking the big file? I am honored, but it is a daunting task. It will take time. (Add the fact that some names were actually ''translated'' into German, i.e. ''Second Try'' is named ''Zweitversuch'' (lit.: Second Try) in German. That one could be guessed, but it literally took me a year to figure that ''Rand'' is meant to be ''The Edge''...
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| − | Oh, and then there is that issue with "missing planets". It grew to quite a collection on the CBT forum, and there are other cases. This wiki, for example, has [[Ferris]] (Outworld Alliance) but there seems to be another Ferris in the Oberon Confederation which as of yet is not mentioned here. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 18:17, 1 June 2008 (CDT)
| + | ::Once you have full article though, we should redirect this page to the section that specifically explains what "Fortune Charlie" represents.--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 05:22, 13 January 2021 (EST) |
| − | ::The file does have Sakhalin (LC) at the correct coordinates. It has Scituate at 88.67,221.94 so that is incorrect. Yunnah is a tad off at 27.64,-154.13. Both have been corrected. It is daunting, I agree... but something does need to be done about the planets that are not represented, especially the planets of the Marian Hegemony and Circinus Federation. I also feel like Clan planets should be added, as well as those in the Deep Periphery, but that's a whole separate issue. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 18:46, 1 June 2008 (CDT)
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| − | == Coordinates == | + | ==Emblematic Mech== |
| | + | Hello |
| | + | I finally take the time to write the [[Essay: Emblematic 'Mechs]] like you advise me to do almost a month ago (I had a lot of works before :(). I don't really feel like it's a true essay. I just extracted and centralized information dispersed in other articles, without putting thought or arguments. After, I have no idea if there is a better way to categorize it and you have far more knowledge on that than I. I would be very grateful if you can look at it and tell me what you think of it. |
| | + | [[User:Dermenore|Dermenore]] ([[User talk:Dermenore|talk]]) 16:48, 21 January 2021 (EST) |
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| − | Frabby, please review the [[BattleTechWiki_talk:Planet_Article_Overhaul#Coordinates_.28Sidebar.29|discussion]] that developed after your opposition statement in regards to doing away with coordinates. The question needs to be settled as to from where these coordinates should reliably come. It's not as clear as simply providing printed canon coordinates.--[[User:Revanche|Rev]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 14:56, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
| + | ==Images for individual starships== |
| | + | Hiya, I wanted to ask you to refrain from putting generic ship class images into articles about individual vessels, like in the ''[[Full Moon]]'' article. There is a less than 1% chance that this image is actually showing the ''Full Moon'' out of the 106 ''Potemkin''s ever built. Please only use images that are confirmed, or at least reasonably likely, to depict the specific vessel in question. I feel using generic images is like putting a regular ''Centurion'' image into the infobox of the ''Yen-Lo-Wang'' article just because ''Yen-Lo-Wang'' is a ''Centurion''. If there is no picture for a specific starship then so be it. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 15:07, 31 January 2021 (EST) |
| | + | ::Frappy, do you know the long ODDS of individual Warship picture to be created? Likelness is 1% it will ever be made. That's crazy Frabby. Unless something special is made, i think that sort policy is bit going too far. --[[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] ([[User talk:Wrangler|talk]]) 19:36, 4 February 2021 (EST) |
| | + | :::::I'm afraid this where we have to '''"Agree, to disagree"'''. This a Warship, not a person with thinking mind or a unique one-off vessel. You can't capture EVERYTHING. I think your being too specific. This my personal view. Specially with BattleTech, Warships are least love units aside from ProtoMechs by some element of our fandom/gamedom. Warship is a Warship unless it's a variant. Frabby, the thing is that Full Moon, is a Clan 3057 version. Technical Readout: 3057 Revised spells it out that Clans changed their ships in this specific case. Mk39 looks like old Vincent from 2750. That's been established. Yet there now 2 kinds of McKennas. Completely different, like much of 2750 ships such as with Aegis specially, but again. 3057 Revised spell out which one is which when it happened. I think your going too far with this. Mjolnir for instance looks same as the sister ship. There no individual pictures of now destroyed second ship. As again, i think your being too picky. I say again, "Agree, to disagree". Your one main editors now here, i'm just some body who helps out since i can't complete in editing and my work isn't as close to people who those who here daily. What you say goes, i personally thing your going too far on dead end subject. I will do as you say, i think your in wrong this. I don't want be banned. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] ([[User talk:Wrangler|talk]]) 15:44, 6 February 2021 (EST) |
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| − | == Individual Ships Template == | + | ==Developer Insights== |
| − | Hi Frabby,
| + | I read a [https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/recognition-guide-ilclan-discussion-part-2/msg1698319/#msg1698319 post on the official forum] that had great insight into the changes to the Tukayyid "C" 'Mech record sheets. I feel like that would be great information to archive here in some way, but I'm not sure how. A link in the 'Mech article notes might work, but the BT forum are far from permanent. Any ideas or opinions?--[[User:Cache|Cache]] ([[User talk:Cache|talk]]) 14:32, 18 February 2021 (EST) |
| | + | :It's probably gonna be important when trying to explain that, and why, the "C" configurations were retconned to what was now established. As a first thought, perhaps copy that post into an Essay type article and link to that in the 'Mech articles whenever a "C" variant is discussed. |
| | + | :In the past I used to archive such information on the pertinent talk page; but this is different as it is not exactly a ruling, and also much longer. So I think it needs to be treated differently. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 14:46, 18 February 2021 (EST) |
| | + | ::I like the "essay" idea. I have PM'd the author for permission to copy.--[[User:Cache|Cache]] ([[User talk:Cache|talk]]) 19:51, 18 February 2021 (EST) |
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| − | I've put together an infobox template I think should hopefully be suitable for use with articles on individual WarShips. As soon as I can work out how to upload it/create the temple here on Sarna, I'll get it uploaded for your review. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 04:15, 17 December 2012 (PST)
| + | ==Sam Lewis in Wolves on the Border== |
| | + | Hey Frabby, |
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| − | ETA: Ok, I think I've got it uploaded. At the moment, all of the fields bar the reference year and the ship name are optional, to make the template as flexible as possible. My intent was that the infobox could be used multiple times in a single page if needed, where we know a ship has been in service with multiple navies/organizations and commanding officers. An example of that might be something like a named ship from Historical: Liberation of Terra where we know the name of the ship, fleet and the CO in the battle to liberate Terra, and then later we know the same ship was in service with Clan Snow Raven under a particular Star Admiral within the Swift Wing Pursuit Star or something similar. Where all we know is that the ship served in different services - such as the Terran Alliance navy, Hegemony navy and Star League Defence Force navy, I'd expect that information to go in the article.
| + | I have just done a search in my ebook copy of [[Wolves on the Border]] for [[Sam Lewis (Scientist)|Sam Lewis]]. I can't find any mention of him in the book.--[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] ([[User talk:Dmon|talk]]) 09:18, 4 March 2021 (EST) |
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| − | Equally, the ISD and OSD dates are intended to be flexible - they could be the date that Clan Coyote recommissioned the ship and then the date they lost it to the Snow Ravens, followed by another infobox detailing when Clan Snow Raven brought the ship into service and the date it was destroyed above Dyev. Equally, it might just be the date the ship was destroyed at Espilon Eridani during the Hegemony liberation campaign, if that's all that's known - although again, I'd expect the text of the article to provide clarity if needed.
| + | :Checked my print books, and ayup, you're right: It's one Prof. McGuffin (!!) who was mentioned along Dr. Banzai for the Jump Stabilizer. Seems I plainly misremembered. The reference to Professor-General Sam Lewis was in [[Warrior: Coupe]] instead, according to his article here. Might as well have looked there first. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 11:00, 4 March 2021 (EST) |
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| − | Does the template look ok to you? I've tried placing a sample in the article on the [[TAS Dreadnought]]. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 04:53, 17 December 2012 (PST)
| + | == Image Categories == |
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| − | :Ah well, might as well discuss this here.
| + | Hi Frabby, |
| − | :My idea for the template was to keep it brief, and collate only "hard" information on it, i.e. factoids that aren't bound to change. Remember that some ships are around literally for centuries. History stuff (name, affiliation, CO, etc.) is poorly suited for infoboxes and should always go into the article text instead. I have always hated Infoboxes with a given reference year with a vengeance, as they will be wrong for any other time period and therefore hardly relevant.
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| − | :Also, I'd suggest to name it "InfoBoxIndividualVessel" so that the same infbox template can be used for individual WarShips, JumpShips, DropShips, Small Craft and Space Stations.
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| − | :My suggestion for the infobox would be to include (only) image, last known name, type, class, date of launch, date of destruction/decommissioning.
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| − | :That would mean the following should be removed from your template: refyear, CO, formation. We're missing type (e.g. WarShip, DropShip, Space Station).
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| − | :[[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 05:29, 17 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | ::I have amended the template as instructed, although I also added a few new fields to allow for tracking up to two name changes within the template. I generated the ''[[Blake's Sword]]'' article to test the template and updated the Dreadnought article to match. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 07:25, 18 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | :::The in service date line seems to imply the ship "Blakes Blood" was in service with the WoB when it first launched rather than first being launch as the SLS 'Wier. You can add a template box below the info box for all named ships that served under dfferent nations and names. It can include when they served with different nations, those dates and under what name.--[[User:Seth|Seth]] ([[User talk:Seth|talk]]) 08:09, 18 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | ::::...which kinda showcases my problem with transient information in the infobox. I am of the opinion that the purpose of infobox templates should be to make our life easier, and should not be used where they don't. Given the potential complexity of a ship's history, I feel this all belongs into the article text proper and cannot adequately be crammed into an infobox. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 13:36, 18 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | ::::The TAS Dreadnought article also shows that In-service/Out-of-service dates don't cut it, as that would be limited to a single owning faction and doesn't work well with a ship that was, say, built by the Hegemony, then operated by the Star League, mothballed, broken from mothballs, deployed again, refitted to upgraded specs, disabled, salvaged and repaired by some faction, captured by another faction, turned into a musem ship and finally destroyed by sabotage? Perhaps we could have a infobox section called "Ownership history" that gives a rundown of dates, names and affiliations. But I still think I prefer to remove this from the infobox altogether, and into the article.
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| − | ::::As for images, I imagined this part only for images depicting the exact vessel in question. If an image of another (or an unnamed) vessel of the same class is shown then I think this must be spelled out in the image caption; if we want to do that then we need an optional image caption section in the infobox. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 14:00, 18 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | :::::At this point, it sounds as if it would be easier to simply not have an infobox at all. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 00:15, 19 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | ::::::Sorry if that sounded frustrating. I do think that having an infobox would certainly help to organize the articles, even if it's a very small or short infobox. We just need to hammer out the details. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 06:26, 19 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | :::::::I think the Individual WarShips category needs to be made a subcategory of the Individual JumpShip category, for simplicity's sake; at the moment, every single WarShip is going to end up being double-tapped, and anyone looking for JumpShips is going to have to wade through a category that contains all the JumpShips and all the WarShips, while all the WarShips will already have their own category.
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| − | :::::::In terms of naming conventions - which probably need to be agreed before I start rushing in and spawning lots of articles - I would suggest that we append the term (vessel) in brackets after the ship name. I'm thinking here of ships like the ''Dreadnaught''-class ''Black Lion''. Where we have two ships of the same name of different classes, I'd suggest using the name of the class in brackets, with one taking the (vessel) suffix if the class is unknown. I'm thinking here of the 31st century ''[[Conqueror]]''-class ''Ark Royal'' built by Clan Snow Raven versus the Star League era SLS ''Ark Royal'' that won the first [[Martial Olympiad]]. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 07:34, 21 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | ::::::::Sounds good, though I'm undecided if we should add "(vessel)" to unique ship names. It feels like disambiguating something that doesn't require disambiguation. A similar problem is the affiliation code - "SLS ''Manassas''" vs. simply "''Manassas''". I can see a lot of redirects going up here.
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| − | ::::::::One of the reasons why I want an infobox, and a reason I previously failed to communicate, is that the infobox can be made to include a category - "Category:Individual vessels" in this case. Saves us the trouble of adding that tag to each and every article. Still, the articles will have to categorize by type, subtype and class, e.g. a given article will be categorized into "Individual Black Lion-class ships", "Individual Cruisers", "Individual WarShips" besides being classed into "Individual vessels" through the infobox.
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| − | ::::::::Btw, I don't think we should treat WarShips as a subcategory of JumpShips. They are very different animals, and what is only a secondary function for the former is the ''raison d'etre'' for the latter..
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| − | ::::::::Anyone else here who wants to chime in? 12:39, 22 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | :::::::::To be clear, I only meant to include (vessel) in a unique ship name when there was a need for disambiguation - hence my SLS ''Black Lion'' versus Black Lion class example.
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| − | :::::::::I would still prefer to avoid categorising WarShips as both WarShips and JumpShips, which isn't the case at the moment; it feels like double-counting WarShips and making JumpShip category listings unnecessarily cluttered. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 13:33, 22 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | ::::::::::Some questions:
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| − | ::::::::::1. How will you handle situations where a vessel gets captured? For example several WarShips were built for the Star League, were recovered by and entered service with the FWL, but were later captured by the WoB. If you're not wedded to an infobox, you could modify the tables we use to indicate the reign of a ruler to cover that data.
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| − | ::::::::::2. In the above situation, do you propose an article covering the career of the individual ship? Using the ships mentioned in #1 above would you have three articles (one for SLS ''Lollipop'', one for FWLS ''Sucker'', one for WoBS ''Rock Crystal'')?--[[User:Mbear|Mbear]]<sup>([[User_talk:Mbear|talk]])</sup> 09:25, 26 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | :::::::::::From my point of view, I'd cover it the same way as I do planet articles where the planet changes name, and how I've tried to cover it in the [[Blake's Sword]] article. The article uses the most recent name for the ship, with redirects for the old names pointing toward it; the article itself is divided up by service, so the article for the ship you've described would be an article for the Rock Crystal, with the history section including a description of it's service as the Lollipop and Sucker, and with redirects for Lollipop/SLS Lollipop, Sucker/FWLS Sucker and WoBS/WBS Rock Crystal all pointing towards it. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 12:31, 26 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | :::::::::::ETA: Those rulership succession boxes are a really good idea, btw. I'm trying to think what the greatest number of changes a ship has been through that we can identify. 3 is pretty common, particularly for WOB ships and maybe some of the Clan ships. Is there a ship with a name that's changed 4 times? [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 12:36, 26 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | ::::::::::::OK. Sounds like you've got it. Just add that to the create a warship article, please, so others can see how to do it. And to answer your question, I'm not aware of any ships that have changed hands 4 times, but that doesn't mean there won't be any in the future. Maybe you can start with 3 entries and add more as options?--[[User:Mbear|Mbear]]<sup>([[User_talk:Mbear|talk]])</sup> 04:15, 27 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | :::::::::::::It would be easy enough to set up a template with ten variable fields to track up to ten different name changes, and thereby have an info box that can list all of the previous names a ship has had up to the current name, if that would be a useful thing to have in addition to the succession template? [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 03:31, 31 December 2012 (PST)
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| − | ::::::::::::::Honestly I have no opinion at this time. WarShips aren't my thing. If I see something that I'm not sure of, I'll let you know. :)--[[User:Mbear|Mbear]]<sup>([[User_talk:Mbear|talk]])</sup> 07:19, 2 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | :OK, possibly tangential question; how do you want Assault DropShips categorised? For example, ''[[Mercenaries Supplemental]]'' identifies the ''[[Kicker]]'' specifically as an ''Assault Triumph''. Do you want these DropShips categorised based on the original class - so Triumph, in this case - as the variant, so Assault Triumph, or as both, with Assault Triumph-class DropShips as a defined sub-category of Triumph-class DropShips, with Assault Dropships categories as both, so checking the Triumph category would bring up all Triumphs, but checking the Assault Triumph would filter in only those specifically defined as being the Assault variants? [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 12:07, 26 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | ::Phew, good question. My first impulse was to treat them as a variant of the class in question, i. e. lump the ''Assault Triumph'' together wirh the ''Triumph''. But you're right that it might make sense to differentiate. I'm open to suggestions. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 12:36, 26 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | :::Whatever we agree for the Assault variants should probably also apply to the -C variants, where they're clearly differentiated... although I've not found a named -C variant, despite having been through both Field Manual: Mercenaries and the first Mercenaries Supplemental, I've not found one yet.
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| − | :::From my point of view, I don't think that we lose anything by taking Assault DropShips and adding both categories, Individual {DropShip}-class Vessels and Individual Assault {DropShip}-class Vessels, and making the latter a subcategory of the former. What we would gain is the ability to define subsets of the main category, which could be useful information for someone. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 13:07, 26 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | ::::After a little research I've made up my mind: I vote for ''Assault''-subtype DropShips to be considered separate designs from their parent designs. They should get their own article and their own "List of named vessels" category, and should be referenced in their parent design's article (and vice versa) as a "related design". I agree with your reasoning that they're different designs in the fashion of "-C" DropShips and [[IIC]] designs (with the ''Broadsword'' being the ''Leopard-C'' in all but name, and "-C" in turn being the "IIC" of spacecraft), and no mere variants. In the case of the ''Assault Triumph'' the massively increased mass is probably the deciding factor for me that screams "re-design". [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 12:43, 28 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | :::::That makes sense, I'll swap the Assault DropShips that I've found over to use the new category.
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| − | :::::On a seperate but related note, I've been adding the ship names to the various ship class pages; some only have an entry or two, but some, like the Union DropShip, have a fair number of named vessels appearing. Should I continue to list the individual ships within the class articles, or would you rather see a link to the relevant individual ships category? [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 13:28, 28 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | ::::::I was going to suggest to simply include a "See also" link to the respective class's "List of named vessels" category. I'd do it myself, but I'm swamped with work elsewhere and am not terribly active on BTW right now. Hope it'll be better in a week or two. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 13:31, 28 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | ::::::<s>If you can give me an example of another page that uses a "See also" section, I'll use that as an example and roll it out across the various articles.</s> ETA: Found an example! Working on it now.
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| − | ::::::The WarShips are going to be hard work because they tend to attract a lot of attention, but I'm starting to see a healthy number of individual DropShip and JumpShip articles now. It almost feels like I'm making progress! [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 00:32, 29 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | | |
| − | == Thanks! ==
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| − | | |
| − | hey, there's nothing like one of the powers that be telling you your work is crap to suck the fun out of your day. Thanks for putting up with me. (And thank goodness Herb didn't get involved.) That'll teach me my lesson: Never try to use logic and real world examples to try to fill in gaps in a description. ;) --[[User:Mbear|Mbear]]<sup>([[User_talk:Mbear|talk]])</sup> 05:08, 7 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | ==DropShip classes==
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| − | Hy Frabby, i notice that you revamp the various JumpShip, DropShip, WarShip categories, but i miss the [[Inner Sphere DropShip classes]] and [[Clan DropShip classes]] category.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 15:59, 7 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | :I couldn't bring myself to re-introduce these categories. Their usefulness is arbitrary at best, but the really important problem is that Sarna BTW is an OOC source covering a fictional universe. As such, Sarna BTW needs to avoid time references relative to "now". Words like ''currently, now, recently, soon, incumbent'' are all verboten because they imply Sarna BTW to be set at a fixed point in time. I do count "extinct" among them because you can never know if those "extinct" designs won't re-appear in the future. Such things have been known to happen in BattleTech, after all. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 04:08, 15 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | | |
| − | ==Founder's Awards==
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| − | Hy Frabby,
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| − | | |
| − | I noticed the news article this morning when I logged in about nominating people for the Founders' Awards, and I wanted to check if I'm eligible to nominate people - the news article says all users can nominate, but the Awards page says that only Admins can nominate people for Founders' Awards. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 23:37, 14 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | :The Awards page says Founder's Awards "may" be nominated by Admins but also states nomination is not required. Given that nomination isn't required and that there aren't terribly many admins active right now I reckon any user may (and should) nominate. I'll update the project page accordingly. Thanks for pointing this out. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 04:03, 15 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | | |
| − | ==TRO: Vehicle Annex (Revised)==
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| − | Hy Frabby, i see you're a little bit involed in TRO:VA Revised, when i read the credits section, congrats :), i think you become the man to update the [[Technical Readout: Vehicle Annex]] page with the new Revised version, and how many you was involved in this great update version.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 15:58, 15 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | | |
| − | ==The Theseus Knot==
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| − | Hy Frabby, I've just added articles to the wiki for the three [[WarShip]]s mentioned in the BattleCorps short story [[The Theseus Knot]], the ''[[Lakshmi]]'', ''[[Klingenthal]]'' and ''[[Minotaur (Vessel)|Minotaur]]''. I'm working from [http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,25853.msg593719.html#msg593719 Mendrugo's review], as I'm not a BC subscriber, and his review differs from your plot summary on here slightly. Can you take a quick look at the three articles when you get a spare moment, and check I've got the details right? Ta. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 08:45, 18 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | ::Hy again. I just read through your plot summary for Theseus Knot, and you have the Lakshmi down as an Avatar class cruiser - do you have a page reference? If you do, I'll update the description of the [[Lakshmi|SLS ''Lakshmi'']] accordingly. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 11:08, 31 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | :::It's page 94 of the print anthology (and the third page of that particular story, with a half-page image on p. 2) so it would be on page 3 or 4 of the PDF: "he still missed the elegance of the ''Lakshmi''. Fresh from the builder's slip, he had commanded the ''Avatar''-class heavy cruiser..." [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 12:43, 31 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | | |
| − | ==Thanks==
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| − | Thanks Frabby, for fix my misspelt [[Friden Aerospace Park]] page, my fingerst are to fast, and the brain was to slow {{Emoticon| ;) }}.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 15:44, 20 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | | |
| − | == Rewritten: 4th Skye Rangers ==
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| − | | |
| − | For your approval, I give you the [[4th Skye Rangers]]. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 21:28, 21 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | : Frabby - please checked the Talk pages for Heany and the Fourth. Thanks. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 11:17, 22 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | | |
| − | == Thehawk ==
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| − | Hy Frabby,
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| − | I posted a rather lengthy couple of comments on the talk page of one of our new members, [[User:Thehawk|Thehawk]], after I spotted him or her having some trouble with references. (I know I could've just pointed them at the help page, but I thought it might seem friendlier to show more of an interest). I later realised that Thehawk was trying to add one of the unique 'Mech variants from the new MechWarrior Online new game to the ''[[Commando]]'' page here. Is it ok to incorporate those 'Mechs into the main pages? I realise that I really don't know what the policy is regarding combat units from computer games. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 07:33, 25 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | :MWO is an official (if expressly apocryphal) BattleTech product; ergo, original material from MWO is equally official and apocryphal. Case in point, the "Blazing Inferno" Commando variant described under "Apocryphal variants" just below the Death's Knell.
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| − | :As for what goes on this wiki, everything ([[Policy:Notability]]). The only caveat being that whatever BTW covers needs to have been published elsewhere, as BTW does not seek to publish BT fan fiction. That latter part is what the Fanon Purge was about. To wit, even non-canonical fanon can be notable enough to warrant inclusion here on the wiki, if it is notable enough and was published elsewhere. See for example [[Berserkerbanden]] or [[LaCasse list]].
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| − | :I don't have time now but I'll clean up the Commando article shortly. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 09:18, 25 January 2013 (PST)
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| − | | |
| − | == Corrections: Fourth Skye Rangers ==
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| − | | |
| − | Frabby - So I tried this: ''[http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,26434.0.html CBT Forum Kathleen Heany Questions]'', and came up empty. Oh well. Looking over it all, I see that you were right. Regarding the [[4th Skye Rangers]], I've cleaned up and consolidated the assumptions, both in the body and the notes. I resubmit the article to you for approval, and hope that you'll find it of good quality. If you like how I handled the discrepancies and assumptions, I'll make similar changes to the [[Kathleen Heany]] article.
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| − | Please let me know what you think. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 16:18, 7 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | : Ready the summary comments - this is why i never wiki edit with a smart phone. ;)
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| − | : Let me know what you think when you have time. Thanks! [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 10:33, 10 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | | |
| − | == Question Regarding Administration ==
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| − | Hi Frabby, Sorry to bother you. I've lately had little more time on the weekends to write up couple of articles on minor characters in the Battletech universe which haven't been fleshed out yet. I wanted touch base with you, ask who would be good person to interact make sure my articles i'm writing up are up to Sarna.net standards. I'm uncertain if your fully retired, i would classify me as part-timer who semi-retired. There been large influx of better writers than myself (I'm grammer challenged.) coming on lately, when i first came on there weren't many folks aside you and rev and couple others. Any advice you could shoot myway, i'd glad take in. - [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] ([[User talk:Wrangler|talk]]) 10:58, 10 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | :You're a valued member of the Sarna BTW community, and with a healthy number of good edits. Maybe your writing/grammar isn't always top notch, but you're not the only one in this and frankly, I can live with bad grammar much better than with wrong information. My advice, therefore, is to be bold and write/edit stuff here to your heart's desire - the more the merrier. Just mind that you get your facts right. Grammar can be cleaned up. :) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 11:19, 12 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | | |
| − | == Review: Perigard Zalman ==
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| − | Frabby - I'd like to nominate Rebs for a Good Article Award for his [[Perigard Zalman]] piece. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 08:41, 18 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | :Yes. And another one for [[Dawn Moffat]]. It's great to see articles of this quality! [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 05:19, 20 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | ==Product Infobox==
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| − | Hy Frabby, can you take a look on [[Record Sheets: 3075 Unabridged - Age of War]], the infobx on the top is a little bit broken.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 14:37, 19 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | :Hmm. I can see the box framing is missing on the top, but I have no idea how to fix that. I'm really helpless regarding coding issues. Wasn't this issue raised in the past already (for the [[Template:InfoBoxCreature]] I think)? [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 16:01, 19 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | ::Yes you are right, we had the promblem in the past, i talk to [[Mbear]] if he can help.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 16:06, 19 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | :::There's a missing border-top CSS rule there. Unfortunately it's in a CSS file I can't access, I need to have Nic make the fix. I'll ping him in the Sarna wiki forum.--[[User:Mbear|Mbear]]<sup>([[User_talk:Mbear|talk]])</sup> 09:34, 20 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | :::I've asked Nic to make the change.--[[User:Mbear|Mbear]]<sup>([[User_talk:Mbear|talk]])</sup> 09:40, 20 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | ==Pretty Baby & MWO Canon Roll Back==
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| − | Hi Frabby. So what do we do about canonity of MWO? There no source for hard canon facts units being depected in the game. I edited Canon when i removed a entry about MWO Variant of the Pretty Baby Awesome, which MWO came up with some stats for. There IS a Pretty Baby which is canon, but thats notable pilot from TRO:3025, same pilot. But the Awesome has notations of being modified. It Still shouldn't be listed as Canon unit unless we have valid source with the Stats. I read information in the Canon article to make sure me adding the MWO among other things not a valid source of canon material since its a video game. I wasn't aware of your conversation with Herb when i did that edit. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] ([[User talk:Wrangler|talk]]) 04:49, 22 February 2013 (PST) | |
| − | :You're right, MWO is not canon. But even if not canonical it ''is'' an official product. This is our very definition of apocryphal. MWO is in the same boat here as ''[[BattleTechnology]]'' or the other computer games.
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| − | :The tricky part is to properly segregate fully canonical information from apocryphal information. We've had a very similar situation already with the ''Death's Knell'' variant of the ''[[Commando]]'' a canonical but unstatted 'Mech that was statted as a variant instead of a standard 'Mech by MWO. It should be mentioned under "Apocryphal variants" or probably just under variants, but then clearly marked as apocryphal. Add a line stating that the 'Mech as such is canon but the non-standard configuration is apocrypha from MWO. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 08:46, 22 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | ::Is there way to no other way to list this variant which fall under the apocrypha? I've found that when you add apocrypha, editors tend to put apocrypha tag on the article, and it affects the entire thing. That was why i whole saled removed it. Could we have seperate article listing all apocrypha 'Mechs instead without getting the main canon articles getting mixed up with it?. People looking up units could end up saying Sarna is listing apocrypha variants, without really reading the article (or know what apocrypha means in some cases...) -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] ([[User talk:Wrangler|talk]]) 12:08, 22 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | :::This touched upon a bigger point: Apocrypha tags. Back when the tags we currently use were introduced (I did most of that and also re-wrote the [[Policy:Canon]], in co-operation with Revanche and Scaletail), there was a discussion about the apocryphal tags. My suggestion was to approach the issue much like Wookiepedia, the Star Wars wiki, does it: They don't mark the entire article, they just use two tags "Apocryphal information begins here" and "Apocryphal information ends here" within the article. That's a much cleaner and easier-to-understand approach, but I was voted down. The others feared the articles would look cluttered and unfinished with the tags used in mid-article in this way.
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| − | :::I still don't agree with this old reasoning and I still think the Apocryphal Content tags are not optimal, so I'm open to suggestions here. I might start another attempt at segregating apocryphal content by Begin/End tags. After all, we've had our Fanon Purge since then. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 12:43, 22 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | ::::Well, i won't want see the apocryphal listed items abolished from the site. They do deserve their place here. I think a new code/template needs to be setup to keep them from confusing would be readers. Too many times i've seen mentioned on the offical message boards that they were thinking that listed apocryphal line item was in fact as canon as the rest of the article. Personally i'd endorse a seperation section in a main article that mentions the apocryphal variant, but Sarna's rep is getting ruined by stuff that either not cited or clearly marked as being questionable. I think draconian method must come, where i think that there should be page dedicated list of apocryphal items put togther or be listed in its own article. I'm more lists such as: List of Apocryphal BattleMechs or List of Apocryphal BattleMech Variants. I know it going be pain in butt, but i can't see anyway to keep it seperated without people getting confused. A tag/flag which doesn't effect the article(which i don't think is coded) could be made be listed next to the apocryphal variant for instance. Highlight yellow or something so a read can tell there something up with it. Somewhat similar to how Rules Notes are listed for Equipment. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] ([[User talk:Wrangler|talk]]) 12:54, 22 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | :::::Here's how Wookiepedia does it: [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/C-3PO#The_.22death.22_of_C-3PO Sample article section] Could this be the way forward? [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 12:59, 22 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | ::::::It could be. I rather have something that was more line-item sort thing. Flag for sentence verse anything below the Warning. Again, i'm semi-retired so i don't have much say about it! :) -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] ([[User talk:Wrangler|talk]]) 18:18, 22 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | :::::::BattleTech has done a much better job about keeping information canon than Star Wars has, so, in general, I feel like we have less need to call attention to it. I'm not quite sure why we need to tag a whole article if we put an apocryphal BattleMech variant into a discreet section. If "Pretty Baby" is under a section in the Awesome article titled "Apocryphal Variants" with a link to the Canon policy and a note about where the information came from, do we need to do more than that? --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] ([[User talk:Scaletail|talk]]) 05:55, 24 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | ::::::::I agree a great deal with the idea we should get away from branding a whole article apocryphal. We have units like the Crescent Hawks and the 1st Somerset Strikers, who've been confirmed as canon, but had their origins in non-canon material. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 07:13, 24 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | :::::::::Articles that are entirely apocryphal (either as a source, like ''[[BattleTechnology]]'', or because the article subject is entirely derived from apocryphal sources, like [[Grig Griez]] or [[Keine Chance!]]) should still be marked as apocryphal articles right at the top. It's only those articles that mix canon and apocryphal content that are a problem. And here we have a sliding scale of sorts: Some things were developed in an apocryphal source from a canonical one-liner somewhere so that their name and existence is canon but little else (like [[Menlo Drews]]); conversely, others are almost completely apocryphal, but got a nod from the developers in the form of a brief mentioning somewhere (e.g. [[Kiudo]], [[Cameron's Legion]]); then there's the "middle ground" section where a substantial lot of info is straight canon but a lot of additional info is not, for various reasons ([[Crescent Hawks]]); and finally, there's articles on canonical subjects where only a small section or piece of information is apocryphal (either an important bit, like in the [[Shandra Noruff-Cameron]] article, or some minor aspect like in the [[Wendall Puritan]] article).
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| − | :::::::::I think the approach to mark specific text parts as apocryphal (by marking the text, or using begin/end templates) works well on the latter two. I am a bit unsure how to approach subjects where essentially only the name and existence of the subject are canon, and any detail information is apocryphal. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 05:17, 25 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | ::Gentlemen, I'm late to the conversation and I may have missed this suggestion (and maybe my opinion has changed since it was last heavily discussed), but can we do shading? Like we do for rules? It could have a section that even bypasses the whole 'apocryphal' tagging and instead represents...I dunno..."Other Media", if not "MechWarrior Online". I'd still use the 'apocryphal' tag for an article that was solely about an aspect of MWO, but for in-canon article sections, we could use shading to make that area stand out. For example, let's say the 1st Alarion Jaegers' article was about a 'Mech instead of a company. Where the [1st_Alarion_Jaegers|game notes] are presently, the parent section could read "Other Media" and the shaded box could be labeled "MechWarrior Online".--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 14:50, 2 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :::I've tested my idea on [[Awesome]]. Another reason I like it is because it links to other BattleTech-related sites ''and'' allows us to link elsewhere within our own humble project. Whatcha think?--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 15:18, 2 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ::::Looks good to me, at least using the Steiner skin view. I'd like to see a disclaimer (small print or otherwise) in the box spelling out that in wiki terms we consider the 'Mechs apocryphal though, just to deflect any criticisms of us trying to pass the variants off as canonical even by implication. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 23:35, 2 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :::::::Sorry for late response. I've been tighted up with IRL issues. As for Rev's experiment. I'm not sure. I rather not have it flashy or stand out like Rules/Construction rules in articles about weapons. I prefer to have my wrinkle to apocryphal, by just listing it as a Apocryphal Variant without entire article listed as such as commented before. Alternately, I would like to see if possible a small ikon or small graphic/text symbol of some kind next to the entry listing, like [Apocryphal Notice]. Stating with visual notice not overwhelming the section this is a apocryphal entry. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] ([[User talk:Wrangler|talk]]) 13:12, 18 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ==Individual Vessels==
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| − | Hi Frabby, I thought you might like to know that we just passed 250 new articles in the [[:Category:Individual WarShips|Individual WarShips category]]. If you include DropShips and JumpShips, I'm about to break through 400 articles on individual ships with my next ship article. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 03:10, 27 February 2013 (PST)
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| − | ==Canonicity of German BT Novels==
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| − | Hi Frabby, I just spotted your exchange with Herb over the canonicity of the German-only print novels when I was doing my daily trawl for interesting snippets in the Writers forum over on the CGL board. You may already be planning on asking this, but I think it would be well worth asking Herb to clarifiy which novels are canon and which aren't - it might even be worth listing the various novels with a spoilerific description of the main canon implications (Leonard Kurita had Ian Cameron's wife assassinated!) so that Herb could give a simple yes/no response on which are canon and which aren't. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 01:35, 21 March 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :I fear the question is moot. Much as I'd love for the German-only material to be canon, it clearly doesn't fall under Herb's definition (published in English - presumably so that all writers/factcheckers can actually read and know it). The only reason I raised the issue was that Randall, during his time as Line Developer, made a different ruling and Herb only implicitly rescinded that with his Canon definition. Now we have the potentially unclear situation cleared up; that's what I wanted to achieve.
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| − | :It may be noteworthy though that Randall's ruling means the German novels were fully canon for a time (technically, either until Herb posted his Canon definition or, at the latest, up until this clarification). Does raise their status on the apocryphal totem pole quite a bit, imho. Much like the BattleTechnology 'Mechs of old... [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 02:50, 21 March 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | ==New Ways==
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| − | Hello Frabby, tnx for your message. I use new ways to create the content for sarna. I recognize that you viewed the article of [[Kleinwelt]]. Can you tell me if the new way is correct in form of typos and writing style or is something missing. I find a place to create my work without to fear a conflict with the rules of sarna. With best regards [[User:Neuling|Neuling]] ([[User talk:Neuling|talk]]) 02:42, 1 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :Hi Neuling, there's a couple of typos/grammar issues in the article, but overall it looks fine. It certainly is readable, and doesn't seem to be breaking any rules as far as I can see. I haven't checked the numerical data, but I trust it is correct. I'll go over the article and do some copyedits when I have some time. Thumbs up from me! :) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 14:41, 1 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ==Monitor (spacecraft)==
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| − | Hy Frabby, great article, any idea in witch category we put the article.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 15:55, 1 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :Pffft. You got me. I plainly forgot. Hmm... Category:Technology, I suppose? [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 16:00, 1 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ::This is ok, thanks.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 16:08, 1 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ==Production and Years==
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| − | Hello Frabby, I had only a few thoughts about the manufacturing places. At the moment all products are mentioned regardless if they produce or not. When I remember correct sarna.net show the information in a historical content. My idea is to make the sites a little more diffent. We have the information of the Objective Raids, the various House Handbooks and also the Objective series. That gives us for the overall production 3 time frames: 3054, 3067 and 3079. What do you think about my idea because I will not change anything in that way before I ask the community. With best regards [[User:Neuling|Neuling]] ([[User talk:Neuling|talk]]) 02:20, 3 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :Quite on the contrary, Sarna takes an universal standpoint and does ''not'' endeavour a given historical fixture. There is no "now" for Sarna, and there should be no 3054, 3067 and 3079 versions of Sarna. But of course it does make sense to note (on the manufacturing center articles) the times when they were built, expanded, damaged, etc. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 03:09, 3 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ==Spammers==
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| − | Hi Frabby, in anticipation of you purging spammers again today, I wanted to flag up that one of the new accounts, [[User:Juvat93]], looks to be a genuine new account, not a spammer despite the odd name (he or she is currently uploading images of various invasion waves during [[Operation REVIVAL]]). [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 01:37, 4 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :Heh - if you hadn't warned me off, there ''would'' have been another accident right there. Another spambot registered right between this poor guy's registry and his first meaningful edit, and his follow-up uploads also had spambot account creations in-between. Close call. Thanks for the warning! [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 05:22, 4 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ::No problem - as soon as I saw his username I thought "that looks just like a spambot", and with so many of them being registered these days it felt like an accident waiting to happen. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 00:58, 5 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | ==Vaporware==
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| − | I'm not sure if you've seen it yet, but Herb has posted up a plot summary of the remaining missing parts of his Forgotten Worlds story [http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,28378.msg0.html here]. It may be worth asking permission to list the summary here against the relevant articles... [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 00:58, 5 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | ==Redirect==
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| − | Frabby, please delete the [[#REDIRECT[[Communications System#Poor Targeting]] its an Design Quirk redirect, I had some finger trouble and noticed i don't adding the correct redirect, thanks for doing this.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 19:19, 8 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | == Ulric Kerensky ==
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| − | | |
| − | Frabby - When you have time, [[Ulric Kerensky]] has been rewritten. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 12:04, 10 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | == Congress Page ==
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| − | Hi Frabby, you rolled back several edits on the ''[[Congress]]''-class WarShip page yesterday that I'd made over the last few months while working on the individual ship articles. Can I ask why? [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 01:40, 12 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :(facepalm) Accident. The fourth of this kind, I think. :( It's a one-click button that doesn't ask for confirmation, and when I'm browsing the site via smartphone I sometimes don't even realize I hit the rollback button. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 03:00, 12 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ::No panic, i added the content again, after Frabby's accidential rolled back.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 09:10, 12 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | ==Dark Age pdf's==
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| − | Frabby i feel we added the two pdf's from the BT download section to sarna as like the [[Dark Age: Republic Worlds (3130)]] article to the electronic books section on the books category, i mean [[MWDA: Uniques]] and [[MWDA: Sneak Peaks]], when it is ok for you i create the main body of the product articles but need a little bit help for the writing in the description and notes section, can you help me when you have time? Thanks.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 15:53, 17 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :Like I said, I think they need articles if they were published as individual publications. But I know next to nothing about all the MWDA stuff so I'm way out of my depth here. What I could do is go over the articles and check for grammar, spelling and style but content wise I doubt I'll be of much help. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 03:50, 18 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | ==XTRO:1945==
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| − | Hy again, i want to stard in the next days [[XTRO:1945]] vehicle pages, i know its a semi canon source but its clarifid by Herb, and i adding at the bottom of the pages the wikipedia template, i checked the wiki and the sourcebook and some is stolen or copyid from the wikipage, i hope this make not problems, i have the GNU License in view.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 19:50, 17 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :This is actually something I advise you not to do.
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| − | :This is not about copyright; it's about the scope of Sarna. All vehicles from XTRO:1945 are nonfictional real-world vehicles and not BattleTech vehicles. I have taken care to provide wikipedia links for them; there is nothing more BattleTech-specific that could be written about them. Therefore I think they have no place on the BattleTechWiki. Look at it this way: If you start adding WW2 vehicles, then you would have to add them all - not only those from XTRO:1945, because everything in the real world up to 1984 is part of the BattleTech canon. The question is, do we want to cover the real world up until 1984 here on BTW? I don't think so. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 03:50, 18 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ::You are right, its not so good to mix real world thinks with BT, thanks for your answer.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 04:41, 18 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | ==Bernard Craw==
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| − | Hi Frabby, given your interest in the German novels (and in case you haven't seen it yet) the author Bernard Craw has started an account over on the CGL forum: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=15566 - based on what he's said so far, I think you may want to strike up a conversation or two with him! [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 00:21, 24 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :Thanks for pointing it out, but we were discussing stuff in the same thread back in 2011 already. :) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 01:00, 24 April 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | == For Your Review - Battle of Twycross ==
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| − | | |
| − | [[Battle of Twycross]] is up. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 08:54, 1 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | ==Congratulations==
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| − | Unacceptably late, but I do owe you your full round of good will for your achievement. Your Outstanding Member of the Year Award shows community consensus works! --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 14:35, 2 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | ==Good catch==
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| − | Despite it being the top news article, I didn't put two and two together, as you did in regards to [[User talk:Crduemling|Crduemling]]. Glad you did. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 15:34, 4 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :Well, yeah... given I was the one to delete him... ;) I'm just glad he re-registered. That's the first of the seven or so accidential deletes I made so far. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 16:17, 4 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | == Apocryphal/Semi-Apocryphal Products ==
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| − | | |
| − | Frabby - How should we handle using Apocryphal Products as legitimate references? The source in question are the BattleTechnology magazines. Yes, some of the material is obviously contradicted by other sources. But as I understand it, much of it is not, and some of it was written by the same writers as the novels and early sourcebooks. Understand, I'm not talking about writing an article about a Apocryphal 'Mech that never appeared in another product. I'm talking about using the magazines as a supplemental source for events, characters and units. What do you think? [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 06:24, 13 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :That's exactly what the "Apocryphal Content" tags are supposed to cover (see above: [[User talk:Frabby#Pretty Baby & MWO Canon Roll Back]]). In a nutshell, yes please go ahead and include any and all information from apocryphal sources - but make sure the apocryphal content is marked (as in easily identifiable) as such, and properly referenced.
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| − | :As example articles that combine a lot of apocryphal content with a minimum of canonical content, check out [[Kiudo]] or [[Jimmy Lee]]. Conversely, an example where most of the article is from canon sources but one small but important detail is apocryphal, see [[Shandra Noruff-Cameron]].
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| − | :Hope this answers your question. If not, I'll try to explain it better. :) Btw, there are no "semi-apocryphal" products. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 08:28, 13 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ::Thanks for the response!
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| − | ::If I may, for articles that are primarily canon with a small amount of potential apocryphal material, I kinda dislike the banner at the top. Wouldn't it work better if we had a smaller "section apocryphal" banner? It feels wrong to stain an entire article with the dreaded "Apocryphal Content" tag.
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| − | ::As for my "semi-apocryphal" description, it may not be official, but it seems apt for many works. Take the BTechnology magazines: A lot of the material from them is verbatim what you'll find elsewhere. In other instances, there have been other sources that have indirectly referenced something from the magazine. Likewise, there are things that are completely contradicted by the canon material, and other elements (like some 'Mechs put in production) seem highly implausible.
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| − | ::The current developers have been clear that the new material takes precedence over older material, and thus, some of the older material may no longer be canon. These are actual line products, not fan magazines. If there's a precedent there, then we can certainly accept that there are varying "grades" or "levels" of canonicity. That's my point.
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| − | ::Should we resume this convo in another place?
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| − | ::Thanks! [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 10:56, 13 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :::Didn't Rev suggest something along the lines of putting apocryphal sub-sections of articles inside a bordered box, akin to the way the Rules section is currently handled in unit articles? [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 11:16, 13 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ::Re: Apocryphal/Semi-apocryphal - a given source is either canonical, or it is not. "Apocrypha" is a word Herb Beas himself has been avoiding, but it fits the bill for a plethora of "official but not outright canonical" material including de-canonized material. This is a complicated and sometimes convoluted issue. To pick BattleTechnology as an example, it was plain full canon in its day. Herb ruled it was not among the sources against which new fiction had to be checked, effectively downgrading it to non-canon. However, there's that disclaimer that says (to paraphrase) any officially published BT material that makes sense (whatever that means) can be considered (whatever that means) to be part of the shared universe. And that's where the Apocrypha definition kicks in - not 100% canon but way further up the totem pole than fan fiction. I don't see much room for "semi-apocryphal" in this, but let's not split hairs here.
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| − | ::Newer taking precedence over older has always been the case, and is only relevant for fully canonical products. Though when you look closely, there are only a small handful cases ever. Even BattleTechnology was written from an in-universe standpoint and can thus be proven wrong in-universe without a retcon.
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| − | ::As for highlighting fanon, as written above I'd prefer the Apocryphal warning tag to go away too and somehow mark the text. I'm not fond of Rev's suggestion and still like the wookiepedia approach better. Though that's better discussed in [[Template talk:ApocryphalContent]]. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 13:47, 13 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ::::Perfect! Taking this there! [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 14:59, 13 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | ==issue with thumbnails==
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| − | Hello Frabby,
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| − | I hope you can help me in some way. I'm updating the maps on Sarna step by step but have an issue with the following file [[File:Is-map-2596.png|150px]]. Sarna didn't create a thumbnail picture of it but the image is uploaded correctly. Know you a solution for that kind of problem. With best regards [[User:Neuling|Neuling]] ([[User talk:Neuling|talk]]) 09:53, 19 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | == InfoboxCommand ==
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| − | Could you please have a look at [[User:Mbear/Davion Assault Guards]] when you have a minute? Let me know if I'm missing anything you wanted. Thanks!--[[User:Mbear|Mbear]]<sup>([[User_talk:Mbear|talk]])</sup> 09:27, 24 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :I see the same basic problem here that I always seem to have with infoboxes: time-specific information. Only very little information isn't dependent on the "current" time. When you're covering hundreds and hundreds of years then it doesn't make sense to cite items like commanding officer or deployment in the infobox. These items change so often and are outdated so quickly that they really belong into article sections instead. Otherwise, the infobox is either always outdated or cluttered to the point of not being clear and informative anymore, and ultimately, useless. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 12:48, 24 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | == Re: 1st Somerset Strikers Sourcebook ==
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| − | If the sourcebook is canon, it begs the question of why it is not listed as a source of canon on the [[1st Somerset Strikers]] page, since that's where I got that info from. [[User:Mattiator|Mattiator]] ([[User talk:Mattiator|talk]]) 11:32, 25 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :Aha. See what you mean. Well, to make it short, the canonicity section in that article got it plainly wrong. Catalyst Game Labs never declared this sourcebook to be non-canon. This is a misunderstanding based on a quote from the Line Developer who said that (paraphrased) certain products including the 1st Somerset Strikers sourcebook, Objective Raids, and the Luthien scenario pack were riddled with errors. They were not de-canonized, although many people got that notion. I'll go and correct the entry in the 1st Somerset Strikers article. Thanks for pointing this out. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 11:45, 25 May 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | == Moratorium violations/Plagarized content ==
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| − | Frabby, do I need to remove Muso-ka's content completely? I haven't looked at every page to see if he just did a data dump, but I can remove them quickly if we need to.--[[User:Mbear|Mbear]]<sup>([[User_talk:Mbear|talk]])</sup> 06:46, 10 June 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :Actually just to be safe I deleted the pages.--[[User:Mbear|Mbear]]<sup>([[User_talk:Mbear|talk]])</sup> 06:51, 10 June 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | :The articles as such, with just an image and the infobox (and bare of fluff text) could remain. They'll be recreated eventually anyways. Keeping them could possibly be a violation of our [[Policy:Moratorium]] but then again maybe not, as the units as such have been around for a long time already. In any case, it wouldn't be legal trouble for Sarna BTW.
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| − | :The plagiarized content, on the other hand, is a big problem and needs to be removed immediately. I don't quite understand why he's doing it after my earlier warning (and he's apparently really copypasta'ing content from the TRO PDF, judging from the odd line breaks), but if he doesn't stop I'll have to play admin with him. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 07:03, 10 June 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ::Yeah, but I figured better safe than sorry, you know? It's not like the affected pages had 5000 characters in them so recreating them should be simple.--[[User:Mbear|Mbear]]<sup>([[User_talk:Mbear|talk]])</sup> 07:38, 10 June 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | ==Inconsistencies==
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| − | I was recommended to ask you about this; in the variants section for 'Mechs and on timelines, should it be in the present or past tense? It seems to switch around a lot depending on the page. [[User:BobTheZombie|BobTheZombie]] ([[User talk:BobTheZombie|talk]]) 14:30, 26 June 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :I am honestly not sure if Sarna BTW has reached a consensus on the issue. Personally, I hold that Sarna BTW is an out-of-character resource and not set in any year within the BT timeline. Accordingly, all content here should be presented in present tense. The exception would be items that definitively are past as in over (concluded events). A ''[[Locust]] is'' a 20-ton 'Mech (because it still is, and will always be); but [[Mercer Ravannion]] ''was'' a DCMS officer, because we have a death date for him. And I've said elsewhere already that time-relative terms such as now, present, incumbent etc. should be avoided. Try to write in an encyclopedic style.<br />By the way, I'm impressed and very happy with the copyediting work you're doing. Keep it up! [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 02:49, 28 June 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ::If the Locust goes out of production and becomes an extinct design in 3250, will it still be correct to say that the Locus is a 20-ton 'Mech, or would it be more accurate to state that the design was a 20-ton 'Mech?
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| − | ::I'm possibly a little blinkered on this because the vast share of the work I do on here is historical information, so I'm almost always working in the past tense, but it seems odd that I should perhaps be refering to extinct units, designs and ships in the present tense even if they've not been in service for hundreds of years....[[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 03:04, 28 June 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :::In my opinion (and mind you, it's just that!), the ''Locust'' can never be extinct because it's a design, an immaterial idea, a concept. A bunch of stats that exists for all time.
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| − | :::And I hate the guts of the "extinct" concept. Within the universe, only very few (I really want to say none) of all designs/items ever become truly extinct. After all, you just need somebody in a Solaris VII garage to dig out the specs and hand-build a new specimen a year, decade, century or millenium later. The "Obsolete" quirk is as much extinction as you can actually get in the BT universe, as far as designs go. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 03:24, 28 June 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | == Apocryphal content, part 2 ==
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| − | | |
| − | Frabby, could you drop by [[Template talk:ApocryphalContent]] please? I've made a couple templates and I'd like your feedback. Thanks!--[[User:Mbear|Mbear]]<sup>([[User_talk:Mbear|talk]])</sup> 07:22, 28 June 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :Yeah, that talk page is an open tab on my browser right now. I'm a tad bit busy with other stuff right now, but I'll chime in as soon as I find the time. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 09:42, 28 June 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | ==Umm...==
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| − | I've never seen this before - [[Chinese Unit Names]]; there is mainly only [[User talk:MrKiasu|one person]] working on it. What should be done? [[User:BobTheZombie|BobTheZombie]] ([[User talk:BobTheZombie|talk]]) 07:58, 3 July 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :I was a bit unsure about this myself, but I concede that the page content seems well-informed and even fairly informative. I'd say it falls into Sarna's (barely used) Essays category. For now I'm willing to let it be, especially as it is linked from the official BT forum in a thread picking up steam, thereby advertising Sarna BTW on the sidelines. I'm still unsure if the page should perhaps be moved into a subpage of MrKiasu's userpage eventually. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 09:14, 3 July 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | == Camo Specs pics ==
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| − | Frabby - Are we allowed to use graphics from the Camo Specs website? Thanks. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 00:30, 7 July 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :I take it you're talking about [http://www.camospecs.com Camo Specs (the website)], and not [[Camo Specs]], the sourcebook? My first suggestion would be to straightforward ask them. In my experience, most people and firms will allow you to upload images from their site to a wiki if you cite their origin (i. e. proper attribution) do not modify the files. Beyond that, there's always the "fair use" doctrine, but make no mistake - for this to work the file needs to be integral to the article. Fair use is no carte blanche, and a bit more restrictive than some people seem to think. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 11:54, 7 July 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :: My example is this: Say I'm writing/editing a unit's article. I'd like to use a photograph of sculpted & painted minis within the body of the article, just to add flavor. Does that work? Would I need permission from the artist/photo uploader, or from an admin at Camo Specs? Thanks. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 12:48, 7 July 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :::If you want to go with existing legal precedent in the US (and I think that Sarna's servers are based in the US, so that's where the case law is from) and play safe, include thumbnails of the images only in your article, linked back directly to the original images on Camo Specs so that readers can only view high-res versions of the image by going to the original. That's if you're worried about either not contacting the painter/modeller/artist to obtain permission to reproduce the image.[[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 13:15, 7 July 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ::::Thank you for that. I'm thinking the thumbnail alone wouldn't add much to the article. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 14:36, 7 July 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :::::It sounds as if the best way to go is to contact the artist and get their permission to display the image or artwork in question - and to future-proof Sarna, I'd stick a copy of that grant of use in the talk page for each article. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 09:09, 8 July 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ::::::Just make sure the images are more relevant than being just eye candy, and have some informative value such as showcasing a paint scheme. Sarna BTW doesn't want to be an image repository (see [[Policy:Images]]). [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 10:02, 8 July 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :::::::Oh, yes. Showing off the paint scheme is the main point. Thanks. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 18:27, 8 July 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | ==Les Dorscheid==
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| − | As the expert on obscure BattleTech publications, what do you think of this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Battletech-Gallery-Set-One-Portfolio-SQP-1994-NM-9-4-/310692091813?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item4856b117a5 - I don't think it's an official BattleTech product, although I'm not sure because it uses the BattleTech logo and trademark. The fact that it's described as "Gallery Set One" makes me wonder if that's one of a set of gallery packs released by Les Dorscheid, or if it's one of a set of gallery packs released by FASA. I can't see a product number on it, so I'm thinking the former, but I thought if nothing else you might find it interesting. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 07:25, 19 July 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :I've seen this a few times on German Ebay and was thinking the same as you (and I think it's a Dorscheid publication, not a BattleTech publication). But I wasn't prepared to pay the price they asked and haven't held one in my hands yet so I cannot be sure.
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| − | :Hmm. Now that you brought it up, perhaps a stub or placeholder article can be created. Perhaps someone actually owns this item and can fill in the blanks. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 16:10, 19 July 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | == For Your Review - Beta Regiment ==
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| − | | |
| − | [[Beta Regiment (Wolf's Dragoons)]] has been posted. Thanks. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 00:07, 25 July 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | ==Possible Bogus Article==
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| − | Hi Frabby, i'm not sure who keeping out for rogue editors these days. However, new user named Redstonizer produced this [[Time swapping theory]] article. Some weird 21st Century article about time travel. He also changed [[Timeline]] to accomdiate his writing. Can you refer someone to look into this, there not much about the early canon. I know they didn't really get into time theory in that kind of detail. I left him warning about getting battletech references. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] ([[User talk:Wrangler|talk]]) 19:29, 5 August 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :There is also a character page presumably linked to it: [[Daniel Martin]]. Should that also be in question of deletion? -[[User:BobTheZombie|BobTheZombie]] ([[User talk:BobTheZombie|talk]]) 20:46, 5 August 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ::This is fanon, and we remove some content imidiatly, oh i added also a deletion template to the Daniel Martin article.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 22:37, 5 August 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :::Thanks guys. I have deleted the articles and notified the user in question. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 02:19, 6 August 2013 (PDT)
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| − | | |
| − | Hey, I just stumbled upon [[Spidermech|this]] today; I'd like to know if it is fanon or not and if action should be taken. -[[User:BobTheZombie|BobTheZombie]] ([[User talk:BobTheZombie|talk]]) 22:25, 14 August 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :The article is horrible and badly in need of a rewrite, but (according to the talk page) the Spidermech may actually feature in an official if apocryphal source, the MechAssault 2 - Lone Wolf computer game. Unfortunately, I don't own this game and know nothing about it. I wouldn't want to delete the entry before checking out this possible source, though; it may not be a bogus article after all. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 01:08, 15 August 2013 (PDT)
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| | | | |
| − | ==reasons of concern==
| + | Do you know how the system maps are generated? All those images don't have a category and this makes the [https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Special:UncategorizedFiles Uncategorized files] not very useful as from the first 1000 thousand maybe 95% images as these ones. And I do not want to put them in a category as this might affect the "program" that generates them. Do you know who can help? Maybe when the image is generated it can be put in a category like "System Images". I'm asking more people, but do you have any idea?--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 04:22, 8 March 2021 (EST) |
| − | Should there be a problem with the maps, I will not upload any new maps and ask to delete all others at the server to protect sarna.net from any legal trouble. I await your anwser and don't upload anything new until we get a solution. With best regards [[User:Neuling|Neuling]] ([[User talk:Neuling|talk]]) 04:48, 16 August 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :The maps are certainly nice to have - if we're allowed to have them. I suggest you contact Øystein and simply ask him (via email or a BT forum PM) if copying the maps was okay or if you should delete them. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 07:14, 16 August 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ::The question is send to Mr. Øystein and I inform you immedatly about his reponse. [[User:Neuling|Neuling]] ([[User talk:Neuling|talk]]) 08:43, 16 August 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :::I send him a message but getting no response . At the moment I thinking about it to continue the map work and should their are any problems I will delete them immedatly. What do you think about it? [[User:Neuling|Neuling]] ([[User talk:Neuling|talk]]) 14:44, 31 August 2013 (PDT)
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| | | | |
| − | ==BattleCorps Story writing== | + | == Adding Design Programs in Left Menu == |
| − | Hy Frabby, i read your well writen BattleCorps storys, how long you need to datamine and write the story, iam very interested in this, i have a buddy they write very well stories (ok it's an english teacher) but he comes to BattleTech after i give him some novels. I say register on the BattleCorps page, to sarna and the BT forum and talk, he has fully access to my biblio and is very interested to write some stuff, but he is a newbi in the BattleTech universe and i want to support him, any thoughts.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 20:49, 16 August 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :Thanks for the flowers! :) I was surprised to find that I'm an extremely slow writer, and so I'm only aiming for one publication per year. (A new story of mine has been accepted and is being factchecked and edited right now, and can be expected to be published this year.) There is no step-by-step guide to story writing, it's a creative process. You need to have a good, interesting story to tell, and you need to know the BT universe enough to not violate its feeling, aesthetics and established canon. I cannot offer help for the former, but regarding the latter there's a self-help group of established and aspiring BattleCorps writers called the Writer's Workshop. It is a Google group run by either Craig "Trbotrtle" Reed or Phil "joechummer" Lee. Contacting either of them should allow your friend to join the group. In this closed group you can post story drafts and get feedback from (semi-)professional authors on your writing, with tips for improvement and also some preliminary factchecking. The Workshop essentially seeks to help authors improve and polish their story enough that it will have a chance to be accepted for publication by BattleCorps. Hope this helps; any further questions, just ask. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 01:48, 17 August 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ::Thanks so much for the Google group info, i tell this to my friend, he is a monster in reading in this time some BattleTech stuff to have a overview of the universe and some thinks.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 08:08, 17 August 2013 (PDT)
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| | | | |
| − | ==Manufacturing Center policy==
| + | Do you think is worth adding a direct link the the design softwares? The pages I've been adding: [[:Category:Battletech Design Software]].--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 05:12, 22 March 2021 (EDT) |
| − | Hy Frabby when you have time please look on this talk [[User talk:BrokenMnemonic#Award]], about our issus, and i hope you can help us, thanks.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 16:22, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :Sorry, I'm afraid I can't add anything useful to the discussion. My understanding of the semantic wiki expansion is poor. I hope Mbear can help out. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 01:04, 19 August 2013 (PDT)
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| | | | |
| − | ==Unusual FASA Products== | + | == Board Game == |
| − | Hi Frabby,<br>
| |
| − | Is [http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,32923.msg765455.html#msg765455 this] another candidate for your ongoing list of obscure FASA BattleTech products? I know I've never seen that map before, but now I want one... [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 00:40, 6 September 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :Yeah, never saw that before either. Nor do I know anything about the French BT community or the Casus Belli magazine, so I'm at a total loss for information here. Luckily we got a file of the map that I can put into the [[Map Pack]] article; but beyond that, there's not much information yet to put on the wiki. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 01:11, 6 September 2013 (PDT)
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| | | | |
| − | == Award Precedence ==
| + | Afternoon, Frabby. IRT [[Board Game]], I'm not sure what to make of this page. It seems to attract the attention of multiple Editors, but...what is it saying? I'm thinking of categorizing it as either Lists or Miscellaneous, but...I just don't get it. Advise, please. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 12:38, 9 May 2021 (EDT) |
| | + | :It's funny that you raise this just now. I've had to take a short wikibreak of sorts and taking that step back made me realize there's a laundry list of admin-level issues on Sarna that needs to be adressed, or at least is becoming a serious problem from my viewpoint. Presentation, project coordination, category structure, article structures, newbie help, you name it. Artifact articles like this one you mentioned are a small facet of one of the major chapters on this wish list. I was going to discuss this with Nic and the active admins shortly and I'm extremely happy to have you back so expect mail shortly (couple of days probably). :) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 13:03, 9 May 2021 (EDT) |
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| − | Afternoon, Frabby. I hope you don't mind but I updated your awards board to reflect the [[BattleTechWiki:Awards#Precedence|precedence]] of each award. It's not a site policy, so please feel free to tell me to back off if it bugs ya! --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 09:20, 21 September 2013 (PDT)
| + | ::Roger that, muh-man. I'll hold off on any action until in receipt of your treatise. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:20, 9 May 2021 (EDT) |
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| − | ==Vessel Categories== | + | == Brawlers == |
| − | Hi Frabby,<br>
| |
| − | Are you reorganizing the vessel categories? Only I've seen you're going around adding categories like "Individual Aegis-Class WarShips" and "Individual Overlord-class DropShips" where categories like "Individual Aegis-Class Vessels" and "Individual Overlord-class Vessels" already exist within the Individual WarShips/DropShips/JumpShips category tree and are in use. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 13:16, 29 September 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :Yep, I found I didn't like the generic word "vessel" when a more informative word like DropShip, WarShip or JumpShip could be used, and I decided to go ahead and implement the change while the number of articles is still manageable. You're welcome to help out. :) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 13:48, 29 September 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ::OK, when I get some spare time I'll start working through categories. I wish you'd mentioned it before I wrote the first 750 or so, though {{Emoticon| :P }} [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 04:35, 30 September 2013 (PDT)
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| − | ::I've finished up the outstanding DropShips, JumpShips and WarShips. You missed the Sovetskii Soyuz, Winchster and Yamato categories in the individual WarShips section when you were clearing up, btw. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 13:21, 1 October 2013 (PDT)
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| | | | |
| − | == Ship categories ==
| + | Afternoon, Frabby. Would you please take a look at my attempt to update the [[Brawler]] article? I'm specifically asking for a review of the general completeness of the role's description and the (hopefully) fair-use presentation of the ''Alpha Strike'' description. If/when it is acceptable, I'm intending to update/build the remaining unit role articles, including for the ASFs. Thanks. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 15:26, 15 May 2021 (EDT) |
| | + | :Unfortunately I've never played Alpha Strike, never even completely read the AS rulebook. I'm totally in the dark about that game system. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 03:07, 18 June 2021 (EDT) |
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| − | These are incredible lists of articles you're putting together. I'm enjoying going thru the ship articles.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 16:11, 29 September 2013 (PDT)
| + | == Longbow Note == |
| | + | Hey Frabby. In the note you left on the Longbow article, it may be worth mentioning that Ral Partha produced the miniature using the Unseen image, [[Ral_Partha_Catalogs#Ral_Partha_Catalog_1988|in their catalog starting in 1988]], which coincides with the appearances in ''Merc's Handbook'' and ''The Star League''. --[[User:Cache|Cache]] ([[User talk:Cache|talk]]) 11:01, 21 August 2021 (EDT) |
| | + | :That's indeed worth noting. I don't have that catalogue, and didn't know that (I'm really not very much into miniatures). Can you expand the Notes to include this info? [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 11:07, 21 August 2021 (EDT) |
| | + | ::I gave it a shot. Hopefully I got the point across while maintaining the flow.--[[User:Cache|Cache]] ([[User talk:Cache|talk]]) 11:59, 21 August 2021 (EDT) |
| | + | :::Pretty good, thank you. I take it "sku" is part of the product name? In an ideal world we would have an article link here, but miniatures are the stepchild of Sarna and I am in no position to improve the situation. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 12:16, 21 August 2021 (EDT) |
| | + | ::::SKU stands for Stock Keeping Unit--the manufacturers stock number for the product. It is listed in the catalog article, there just isn't an easy way to directly link to its exact location. Setting individual anchors is a bit of a task.--[[User:Cache|Cache]] ([[User talk:Cache|talk]]) 12:27, 21 August 2021 (EDT) |
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| − | == Checking Nyx == | + | ==Four minor points== |
| − | Hi Frabby, since your very active and pretty good at seperating canon from non canon. Can you look at the [[Nyx#WizKid.27s_MechWarrior_Dark_Age_Variants|Nyx]] article? I wrote it originally with info from TRO:3085, however someone discovered a PDF that was up loaded on the main website which called MWDA: Unique Mechs and Pilot Cards. They added a mentioning of a WizKids variant called the NX-23. I asked writers about it, they told me if its not in the MUL, its not canon. So i seperated the variant from rest of the article and put a '''<nowiki>{{ApocryphalContentStart}}</nowiki>''' on the MWDA Variant section. I personally want remove NX-23 reference all together since it was judged to be non-canon. Alot those data cards made for the later expansions were didn't quite keep to canon. Can you look at this and NX-23 reference should be removed from canon listing? Thanks -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] ([[User talk:Wrangler|talk]]) 16:53, 1 October 2013 (PDT)
| + | :''(Moved from user page to user talk page)'' |
| − | :Hy Wrangler, i jump in, the source is cannon, it comes from CGL dowload section sources, and it is not stated that the products is apocryphal. It is not a statement when the variant is not listed in the MUL page, i see a lot of lacks on the Mul page they have no states for units descripted in [[Historical: Liberation]] vol. 1 and 2. But this is my point of view.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 17:44, 1 October 2013 (PDT) | + | I can't get the hang of pinging on this wiki, so I came to your page. It's nice to have feedback because my efforts aren't perfect. |
| − | ::This is a tricky one. The baseline is that all MWDA material from WizKids is fully canon, and the NX-23 should thus also be canon. And I don't mean to belittle the MUL one bit, but saying that "if it's not in the MUL then it's not canon" is a goal, not a fact. The MUL still has missing units and cannot negatively define canon in this way.
| + | * Re: AeroSpace Fighter, I've been using the [[Policy:BattleTech Style Guide]] connected to the Manual of Style, which requires CamelCase. I don't think I have a copy of the BattleCorps MOS. |
| − | ::Bottom line, it's an official MWDA product and so it's canon even if there's no record sheet and no MUL mentioning (yet). [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 04:41, 2 October 2013 (PDT)
| + | * Re: Mad Jumpin Jacks, it was inconsistent within the article so I went with what's at the [[Phoenix (Mercenary Command)]] page the unit name redirects to. I don't read German and I don't know if I have a PDF or doc of the novel to check against so I didn't even try to consult the original. |
| − | :::Hi Guys, sorry take while to respond. If you look at my reference in moving the NX-23, the Ask the Writes forums response was part my citing. They had out right said that their considering the MUL (not 100% done yet) more canon than the product in the download page. Shouldn't it be considered apocryphal if writers themselves say it isn't rock solid? -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] ([[User talk:Wrangler|talk]]) 16:41, 3 October 2013 (PDT) | + | * Re: Hyphen use in co-founder. I've been going with Fowler ("hyphens are regrettable necessities, and to be done without when they reasonably may") due in part to the over(mis)use of hyphens by CGL. I'm using a dictionary aggregator and the Chicago Manual of Style for hyphenation but I'm bound to get a few wrong. |
| − | ::::Well, Paul explicitly admitted that if something that fulfills all criteria for canon otherwise isn't in the MUL then it is either not canonical after all, or an error in the MUL (or simply not input yet). This "either non-canonical or an error" ruling means omission by the MUL doesn't automatically make canonical designs less canonical. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 03:53, 5 October 2013 (PDT)
| + | * Re: Correcting quotations. I try to consult the original text before correcting quotes but I know I miss some; I'm glad to have my mistakes corrected. I've actually had to correct a few quotes in other articles to match what's in the original product text. |
| | + | It would have been helpful if FASA/FanPro/CGL had at least tried to be consistent in its own products... [[User:Madness Divine|Madness Divine]] ([[User talk:Madness Divine|talk]]) |
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| − | ==Pluralisations== | + | ==PseudoTech== |
| − | Hi Frabby, I have a question I think you may have the answer for. I've been updating some WarShip entries, and found myself needing to use the plural of ''Sovetskii Soyuz''. At the moment, I'm using the English pluralization, which I think is ''Sovetskii Soyuzes''; however, ''Sovetskii Soyuz'' is a Russian name - it means "Soviet Union" - and I think in Russian, the plural of ''Sovetskii Soyuz'' would be ''Sovetskii Soyuzij'', although I'm checking with a Russian friend of mine to make sure. Given that ''Sovetskii Soyuz'' is a proper Russian name, should I be using the Russian pluralization? [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 10:05, 10 October 2013 (PDT)
| + | Hey Frabby. Saw that you removed Moratorium from [[PseudoTech: Arcade Operations]]. Please note this is ''not'' a Free product. It costs $2.99 in the CGL store and DriveThruRPG.--[[User:Talvin|Talvin]] ([[User talk:Talvin|talk]]) 11:59, 7 April 2022 (EDT) |
| − | :No idea. That's definitely something you should "Ask the Writers" over on the BT Forum. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 10:09, 10 October 2013 (PDT) | + | :D'oh. Me sloppy. Thanks for pointing out! Changing back. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 12:03, 7 April 2022 (EDT) |
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| − | ==Canon or not== | + | == Some German edition issues == |
| − | Hy Frabby, please take a look to this forum talk [http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,34399.msg803078.html#new], i think MechWarrior 4 is Apocryphal, but why Herb say its canon?--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 23:05, 27 October 2013 (PDT)
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| − | :Where does he say it's canon? He said that all he could say was it's "maybe canon" - which essentially boils down to Herb saying he doesn't know if there's an actual canon reference somewhere. He didn't rule either way. Basically, he dodged the question (which is okay, given everything he said about Canon before). [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 04:06, 28 October 2013 (PDT)
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| − | == Battle of Luthien (Clan Invasion) concerns ==
| + | Frabby. I encountered two issues related to German editions of certain novels. The issues are posted in [[Talk:List of German BattleTech novels]] and [[Talk:Shadows of War]]. Please feel free to share any insights that may help resolve those. Thanks. --[[User:Dude RB|Dude RB]] ([[User talk:Dude RB|talk]]) 22:23, 15 June 2022 (EDT) |
| − | Frabby - When you have time, please review the recent additions to the "Battle of Luthien (Clan Invasion)" article. Huge chunks of content were copied directly from the book. DJ has been making minor alterations, but even the structure he chose is copied directly from the scenarios. Can you please give it a look? Thanks. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] ([[User talk:ClanWolverine101|talk]]) 04:14, 3 November 2013 (PST) | |
| − | :Thanks for the notification. I'm on it, but don't have much time right now. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 13:11, 3 November 2013 (PST)
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| − | == MekTek is Fanon? ==
| + | :Just gonna drop this here, as sorta related: [[Im Schatten der Bestie]] had some notes added to the Canonicity section about Mech names and mistranslations. I just moved it down to a Notes section and otherwise left it be, but if you get a chance, please take a look? Thanks!--[[User:Talvin|Talvin]] ([[User talk:Talvin|talk]]) 18:01, 17 June 2022 (EDT) |
| − | I noticed that only a few MekTek 'Mechs are over at the [http://battletechfanon.wikia.com/wiki/BattleTech_Fanon_Wiki Fanon Wikia], and wondered if all of them should be there, and also if the original articles should stay on Sarna. -[[User:BobTheZombie|BobTheZombie]] ([[User talk:BobTheZombie|talk]]) 18:31, 4 November 2013 (PST)
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| − | :I've never played the computer games past MW2:Mercenaries so I'm a bit out of the loop here. Unfortunately, MekTek doesn't even have an article here yet that clears up its nature and canon status. As I understand it, MekTek and its packs are an extension to MW4, released under a legal and valid license from Microsoft (but with no input or factchecking whatsoever from FASA/FanPro/CGL). As such, the material is apocryphal on the bottom end of the totem pole, bordering on non-canon. Sigh. Somebody with a better knowledge should really go and write that article.
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| − | :Anyways, yes, if there are original 'Mechs and vehicles in there then they should have their own article each, with the apropriate Apocryphal tag. However, other wikis are no official or reliable sources; they may only suggest where to look for references in official sources. That is to say, yes, please write as many articles about MekTek material as you can, but don't use other wikis as sources. Use the original information sources, i.e. the MekTek games material, directly. Using original research and not simply repeating unverified stuff from other unreliable sources is what sets Sarna apart and makes it better. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 02:13, 5 November 2013 (PST)
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| − | ::I wasn't planning on using ''their'' info, but rather was just pointing out that they had some of our pages that were copied over from the Fanon Purge, and wondered if that even mattered. I guess that it doesn't. If I find some free time I'll try doing some research and start that page. -[[User:BobTheZombie|BobTheZombie]] ([[User talk:BobTheZombie|talk]]) 14:03, 5 November 2013 (PST)
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| − | == MechWikia == | + | == Intermedia X-Pulse Laser == |
| − | ''(copy from BobTheZombie's talk page)''
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| − | I was looking for some extra opinions about an idea I had; what if I converted the [http://battletech.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page MechWikia site] into a beginners/introductory site that could help ease people into BattleTech? I already started poking around there and found out that the place is deserted -- there have been no edits for months. I could take over the site without a fight. Additionally, the pages there are utterly horrible. | + | I just saw that you reverted [[Intermedia X-Pulse Laser]] from where I had marked it for deletion. I am rather confused: it is one among a pile of similar redirects that used to point to Fanon, has nothing linking to it, and I can't see why it would need to stay?--[[User:Talvin|Talvin]] ([[User talk:Talvin|talk]]) 08:22, 21 June 2022 (EDT) |
| | + | :I did? Damn. Presumably another case of me hitting the stupid "rollback" button when I was really only trying to scroll down the recent changes on my not-so-smart phone. I hate that button! And this time I didn't even realize I had hit it. Re-deleted. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 12:58, 21 June 2022 (EDT) |
| | + | ::I have never tried to use this site on anything smaller than an iPad. Somebody rolled my userpage back a couple months, once. :D Thanks for fixing.--[[User:Talvin|Talvin]] ([[User talk:Talvin|talk]]) 13:00, 21 June 2022 (EDT) |
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| − | I've been adding links to the sarna equivalents of their most viewed articles. If this isn't a good idea, then I'll just leave the site to rot (but possibly add more sarna links). -[[User:BobTheZombie|BobTheZombie]] ([[User talk:BobTheZombie|talk]]) 14:35, 4 November 2013 (PST)
| + | == Astronomical Features == |
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| − | :Bob, please stop to use material, pics ect. from MechWikia, we come in some trouble, there is not cannon, stop at this time, when Frabby clear this, thanks.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 19:33, 4 November 2013 (PST) | + | Frabby, you raised a [[Category talk:Astronomical Features|point]] about the definition of [[:Category:Astronomical Features]] back in 2020. I know that idea may have grown dormant since then, but can you elabaorate (in [[Category talk:Astronomical Features]]) on the issues you see/recall from then and whether they still need attention now? --[[User:Dude RB|Dude RB]] ([[User talk:Dude RB|talk]]) 00:03, 5 July 2022 (EDT) |
| | + | :Thanks for the ping. I’ve replied over on the discussion page. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 12:18, 5 July 2022 (EDT) |
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| − | ::Okay, I removed it from the page and put a deletion tag on it. Sorry. -[[User:BobTheZombie|BobTheZombie]] ([[User talk:BobTheZombie|talk]]) 19:38, 4 November 2013 (PST)
| + | == Japanese Editions == |
| | | | |
| − | Answered on Bob's talk page. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 01:52, 5 November 2013 (PST)
| + | I seem to recall you collect foreign editions. I have done more detective work: [[Category_talk:Japanese_Editions]] --[[User:Talvin|Talvin]] ([[User talk:Talvin|talk]]) 13:25, 7 July 2022 (EDT) |
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| − | == Page Merge == | + | == ä == |
| − | Hi, Looking at these two units I think these pages should be merged: [[16th Battle (Clan Wolf)]] and [[16th Wolf Guards (Clan Wolf-in-Exile)]]. I wouldn't go ahead and just do this without admin approval so I was wondering what you thought? --[[User:Dark Jaguar|Dark Jaguar]] ([[User talk:Dark Jaguar|talk]]) 13:15, 10 November 2013 (PST)
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| − | :Answered here: [[Talk:16th Wolf Guards (Clan Wolf-in-Exile)]]. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 02:11, 11 November 2013 (PST)
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| − | ==The Art of BattleTech: A Game of Armored Combat (Japanese edition)==
| + | [[Glenmora (Individual Trutzburg-class äDropShip)]]--[[User:Talvin|Talvin]] ([[User talk:Talvin|talk]]) 08:31, 11 July 2022 (EDT) |
| − | Hy Frabby i have the book, come we in some trouble when i upload som unseen 'mech pics, and add the apocryphal image tag? If you are interested i give you my mediafire link for the book.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 17:51, 13 November 2013 (PST)
| + | :Oops. Fixed. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 16:35, 11 July 2022 (EDT) |
| − | :(Sorry for the late reply.) This is definitely interesting, although as a foreign language edition is wouldn't be canon (only apocryphal). But I don't see why you should get into trouble for uploading stuff if it falls under the Fair Use doctrine. Sarna BTW is a non-commercial community project and the unseen treaties don't apply to us. We only have to heed copyright laws, and Fair Use permits us to use copyrighted images to some extent. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 04:52, 23 November 2013 (PST) | |
| − | ::Here my link for you [https://www.mediafire.com/myfiles.php#b5baamu7oa4nx].
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| − | :::Can you help which 'Mech name is it in BT, there no names on the images, i know a handfull of this but not all.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 14:49, 24 November 2013 (PST)
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| − | ==Bibliography== | + | == 25th Anniversary Introductory Box Set and BattleTech Einsteigerbox == |
| − | Frabby when you add ref. notes please update the bibliography section, thanks.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 15:04, 22 November 2013 (PST)
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| − | :Thanks for the reminder. Though honestly, a Bibliography entry is only warranted if the source named actually has something to say about the subject. There are some cases where I may have to quote or reference another source that only indirectly pertains to the article; in such a case I usually put a link into the reference but don't place the source in the Bibliography section as that would be misleading. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 04:50, 23 November 2013 (PST)
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| − | :I understand you, but i think the biblio must updated when a ref. not is added. But this my personal feeling.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 17:12, 24 November 2013 (PST)
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| − | ::For what it's worth, I think that if the source is being cited indirectly, I think the explanation for citing it belongs in the Notes section - I've done that myself a few times where I've been using a process of elimination to prove something in the absence of direct statements.[[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 03:54, 26 November 2013 (PST)
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| − | ==Individual Ship Articles==
| + | Hello Frabby. I saw your removal of the German edition information from [[25th Anniversary Introductory Box Set]] and the note on the edit. I am curious to get your vantage point on this. While the 2012 ''BattleTech Einsteigerbox'' did not adopt a German version of the title, it does appears that its cover and the components are a port over of those in the 25th Anniversary Introductory Box Set, using the component list from [https://web.archive.org/web/20160813065958/http://www.ulisses-spiele.de/sortiment/tabletop/battletech/produkte/36/battletech-einsteigerbox/ the archived product page from Ulisses-Spiele].) Some of the contained booklets have page counts off by four, but the descriptions of the maps and the 'Mechs, including the premium 'Mechs, seem to align. Even in the lower right hand corner of the cover [[:File:BattleTech Einsteigerbox-cover.jpg]] there is a note that reads '25 jahriges jubilaum kampfkollosse des 4 jahrtausends' (trans. 25th anniversary of the battle colossi of the 4th millennium) so it also seems to be acknowledging the 25th anniversary of BattleTech. It would seem proper to classify this as a German version of the ''25th Anniversary Introductory Box Set'' even though the title is vastly different. Is there something that I am missing or overlooking (whether in terms of interpretation or historical context)? An error on my part is quite possible, especially as German is not a language I am fluent in. I would be curious to get a proper understanding one way or the other. --[[User:Dude RB|Dude RB]] ([[User talk:Dude RB|talk]]) 19:47, 9 January 2023 (EST) |
| − | Hi Frabby, I've tried writing my first help article, which is about writing articles for individual vessels. I used the format for the "write a new DropShip article" page as a template, and I tried to incorporate everything that'd come up in discussion between thee and me while the first few hundred articles were being written. I've posted the article, but it's a bit longer than most because I've tried to provide guidance on things like naming the articles and populating the article, which means it may not actually be fit for purpose. Could you take a look and let me know what you think, please? [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 03:54, 26 November 2013 (PST)
| + | :Need to research this a little more. The Anniversary Box and subsequent Introduction Box are very similar, that makes it difficult to decide which (if indeed any particular one) of them the German box is based on. It can't really be both though. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 11:51, 14 January 2023 (EST) |
| − | :I'm pretty impressed with it. It's a good guideline and I don't think it's too long - it simply has to cover a lot of ground, and does that well. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 04:29, 28 November 2013 (PST) | + | ::One thing to note is that there are (at least) two different versions of the ''BattleTech Einsteigerbox''. One released in 2012. And one released in 2014. Ulisses-Spielle calls the latter ''BattleTech Einsteigerbox (Neuauflage)''. See [https://web.archive.org/web/20160813065958/http://www.ulisses-spiele.de/sortiment/tabletop/battletech/produkte/36/battletech-einsteigerbox/ BattleTech Einsteigerbox] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20140910183509/http://www.ulisses-spiele.de/produkte/954/battletech-einsteigerbox-neuauflage/ BattleTech Einsteigerbox (Neuauflage)] for a comparison. In fact at the bottom of the web-listing for the older one is a link to the entry for the newer one. --[[User:Dude RB|Dude RB]] ([[User talk:Dude RB|talk]]) 12:59, 14 January 2023 (EST) |
| | + | After looking into this I fully agree with you and have re-inserted the German edition parts into the 25th Anniversary Box article. Thanks for calling me out on this mistake. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 05:55, 19 January 2023 (EST) |
| | + | :Thanks for the update and the independent confirmation. It is definitely good to have another set of eyes to help confirm or correct. --[[User:Dude RB|Dude RB]] ([[User talk:Dude RB|talk]]) 19:20, 20 January 2023 (EST) |
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| − | == Award == | + | ==Disambig (cont.)== |
| − | Hi, I am a long time user (viewer) of this site for information that I can not get elsewhere. I have noticed you are one of the few to actively add useful information to the site. I particularly like your articles on obscure (from my point of view) BT stories and the synopsis you provide. I have seen the awards page and I believe I'm eligible to do nominate you for an award, as a thank you from an appreciative user. [[File:SubAdd 1bol.jpg|Substantial Addition Award, 2nd ribbon]] --[[User:Insidiator|Insidiator]] ([[User talk:Insidiator|talk]]) 08:36, 27 November 2013 (PST) | + | Hi Frabby, I'm not sure if you read my last reply in my talk page's Disambig discussion. Have you given any more thought to matter? --[[User:Csdavis715|Csdavis715]] ([[User talk:Csdavis715|talk]]) 09:08, 22 September 2023 (EDT) |
| − | :Thank you very much. Obscure BT products are indeed a pet project of mine, and I'm particularly happy to see I'm not the only person interested in them. As for BattleCorps stories, I'm also hoping to promote the site a little. There are some truly great stories there, and if you're into BT fiction then there is no way around BattleCorps. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 04:34, 28 November 2013 (PST) | + | :Just checking in. As of this moment we are at 1,252 disambig pages and still climbing. I've finished going through all Clan characters and bloodnames currently in the database and have moved on to systems. Deadfire has helped me eliminate several hundred "structural" redirects to improve the search and autocomplete functions. Continuing to add disambig/seeother notes on non-Clan pages as previously discussed. Do you feel things are working and progressing to your satisfaction? [[User:Csdavis715|Csdavis715]] ([[User talk:Csdavis715|talk]]) 07:23, 9 November 2023 (EST) |
| − | == Request ==
| + | ::You're putting much more work into this than I ever did, honestly. I'm totally fine with it. In individual cases I might disagree regarding the disambig/seeother tag at the page header but if and when I run across something and actually find the time to lean into it, I'll ping you. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 07:52, 9 November 2023 (EST) |
| − | Hello Frabby, I discover that many technologies have an Prototype Date but I have no clue which is the best way to show it. I think an additional row at the technology infobox is helpful. Further more some technolgies were lost and later reintroduced. What is your opinion about that. [[User:Neuling|Neuling]] ([[User talk:Neuling|talk]]) 07:12, 28 November 2013 (PST)
| + | :::Appreciate it. If you feel the wording of the tag can be improved, of course please make whatever adjustments you feel is appropriate. Sometimes it's not always clear and I'm just doing a quick scan of the article for key words to put in. [[User:Csdavis715|Csdavis715]] ([[User talk:Csdavis715|talk]]) 08:06, 9 November 2023 (EST) |
| − | :I'd be quite interested in seeing prototype dates listed in the infoboxes, as it seems like useful information to track - if the decision is that it's a good idea, I think I can add the line to the infobox as needed. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 09:15, 28 November 2013 (PST) | + | ::Following up on something. Going through the DropShips and WarShips looking for same-named ships, I didn't realize just how many ships were needlessly disambiguated. I didn't count but there's maybe 100? My feelings on this have changed since you first mentioned it last August. Some of them make sense and understandable to leave as is, but if given the opportunity one day I'd be happy to move 90% of them back to their appropriate, simplified links, along with text replacements to rid the wiki of redirects that we don't need, decluttering the search function a little. [[User:Csdavis715|Csdavis715]] ([[User talk:Csdavis715|talk]]) 01:07, 4 March 2024 (EST) |
| − | ::A very good idea Neuling, but we must update some infoboxes we dont have a stand alone technology infobox.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 14:07, 28 November 2013 (PST) | + | :Oh, you're really preaching to the choir here. Apparently, someone got the notion that all ship names should be disambiguated to "name (class, type)". That wasn't my idea and I never liked it. You are very welcome to purge unneccessary redirects and disambiguations! A word of caution though, there are some edge cases where a ship was renamed and one of its earlier names may be a redirect that requires disambiguation (we do try to track previous names by redirecting these names to the vessel's latest established name). [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 01:37, 4 March 2024 (EST) |
| − | :::I agree that the information should be in the article, but I'm not sure if it has to be in the infobox. In any case, I reckon you could put all this information into a single field, e.g. "Introduced 2750 (prototyped 2745); lostech by ca. 2850; rediscovered by NAIS 3055". Or something like that. I would like all of this information to be in one place, not spread out all over an infobox. But maybe that's just me. Is there even an InfoBoxTechnology as of yet? [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 15:29, 28 November 2013 (PST) | + | ::When the time comes, I'll be thorough during my checks. :) [[User:Csdavis715|Csdavis715]] ([[User talk:Csdavis715|talk]]) 02:21, 4 March 2024 (EST) |
