Sarna News: Bad 'Mechs - Rifleman

User talk:CungrVanck

Welcome[edit]

Welcome, CungrVanck, to BattleTechWiki!

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Again, welcome to Sarna's BattleTechWiki!

*******Be Bold*******

Branth article[edit]

I have deleted the "Branth (species)" article as per your request. Mind that, as a registered user, you should have a "move" button that allows you to transfer an article's content to a new name, automatically creating a redirect in the old article. Please do not simply blank pages; at the very least, insert a {{Deletion|(reason)}} tag so that the delete request can be seen easier by the admins.

PS Good edits so far! Have an All Purpose Award All Purpose Award, 1st ribbon (feel free to add this to your front page). Frabby 07:03, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Frabby! This is my first wiki experience and I still have a lot to learn. Double thanks for the award! CungrVanck 10:07, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Bountiful Delicacies[edit]

Good evening :) I saw that you'd marked "Bountiful delicacies" for deletion due to the mis-capitalised name; I set the original to a redirect so that it'll point to the right one, as it seemed to me that others might make the same mistake when looking for the article. I'm not sure if you know how to set up redirects? I notice that Frabby mentioned them above for you. You can create one by either hitting the button marked #R and then typing in the new name of the article where it prompts you to, or by typing in #REDIRECT[[Target page name]]. I didn't work that out myself until I saw someone do it in response to a comment I made, so I thought I'd pass the favour on... BrokenMnemonic 18:35, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks BrokenMnemonic! Actually, I had created a redirect in my attempts to fix the issue. Though that was completely by accident. I thought that deleting it would be a better solution. I will try to remember that this is the preferred method of correction. CungrVanck 20:28, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Company articles[edit]

Thought I'd share this with you: when I first log onto the site at any point in the day, I'm in vandal patrol mode. When you start a new article with something clearly corporate (ex: Dobless Information Services‎), my eyes whip right too it and then to the editor's name. I recognize who you are, get briefly confused and then remember that canon companies are your forte. Anyway, letting you know you often provide false returns on my vandal radar. Nonetheless, keep doing what you're doing. I enjoy reading your work.--Revanche (talk|contribs) 20:11, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up Revanche! I hope I am not causing you too many headaches with these updates. CungrVanck 15:20, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
Nah, not at all. I'm enjoying reading your write-ups, more than I do the canon descriptions.--Revanche (talk|contribs) 18:41, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Sarah Weaver[edit]

Very impressive article on Sarah Weaver, CungrVanck. I like the depth and the use of wikilinks, both red & blue (don't be shy about making redlinks). Two things:

  1. Check out the change I made to your first citation and then how I copied the first part of it for the 2nd citation. What that does is provide 1 inline reference in the References section, instead of a separate line everytime you use the exact same reference.
  2. If Era Report: 3052 was your only source (which is perfectly fine), make sure you cite each and every paragraph, so that when someone else adds additional info from another source, what information comes from where isn't lost. There's no reason that the end of every paragraph can't have the same citation. Not only is it perfectly fine, it's preferred.

Great job! Here's a Good Article Award for your efforts:

Good Article Award, 1st ribbon

--Revanche (talk|contribs) 13:54, 13 March 2012 (PDT)

Thanks again Revanche! Right now, I only have access to my .pdf documents as my collection is currently in boxes while I move. I will add more info and citations in the future.CungrVanck 14:13, 13 March 2012 (PDT)

Planet Additions[edit]

Hi CungrVanck,

I spotted that you've been making minor additions to planet articles by datamining sources like FM:SLDF - I really appreciate that, as there's a huge amount of detail about planets tucked away in sourcebooks as passing comments or minor details, and it's tracking and pulling together that sort of information that I think Sarna is really, really useful for. I'd like to give you an award as thanks!

Casual Edit Award, 1st ribbon BrokenMnemonic (talk) 01:23, 9 April 2016 (PDT)

Thank you for the recognition, BrokenMnemonic! When starting this little project, I imagined what I would like to know about a world if I was running a game on it. So weather, SLDF installations, species, cities, history etc are high on my list to add. Can never have enough adventure hooks! Its also a small bite size project that easier for me to complete. CungrVanck (talk) 05:35, 11 April 2016 (PDT)
Hi CungrVanck,
I really like the work that you're doing adding in all the detail from FM:SLDF, but there's a small issue with some of the articles - you're breaking the new article format a bit. You're adding the text into the top bit of the article, which is where the system description and system history articles, which isn't where planet-specific detail goes. If you look further down the planet article of any planet that's listed as being in phase 5 of the Planets Project (the number's in the header at the top of the article) you should see sections marked Planetary History, Geography, and Planetary Locations (for example). Those are for planet-specific details - Geography is for natural things (continents, rivers, mountains, climate, atmosphere, etc) whereas Planetary Locations is for man-made things (cities, DropPorts, fortresses, etc). Generally, the things that go in System History are things like space battles in the system, things relating to space stations, recharge stations, asteroids and so on.
I know it probably seems a bit pedantic, but there's been a rolling project for the last 4-5 years trying to get all of the articles updated to the new format, and once they're in that format, keeping them consistent, so that the wiki looks more professional and organised. Where possible, I've kept the template in every article, and fields that aren't used when the article is updated get commented out, sot hat anyone adding detail later can add those sections back in - I'm happy to explain how the comment feature works, if that'd help? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 17:10, 16 January 2017 (EST)
Morning BrokenMnemonic. Sorry for format breaking. It's not my intention to cause issues. In my data mining adventures, I have come across several formats and layouts so focused on getting info into the site over placement. I will try to be more attentive in the future. That said, is there a location where I can enter input regarding article layout for Phase 6? Thanks! CungrVanck CungrVanck (talk) 11:42, 17 January 2017 (EST)
No need to apologise Smiley.gif You're doing really good work. The talk page for the article format is here BattleTechWiki_talk:Planet_Article_Overhaul - it's one of the pages associated with the Planets Project. There's also an article linked from the planets project page that explains the category definitions for each phase of the planets project. Hope that helps! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 16:45, 17 January 2017 (EST)
I keep logging in each morning and seeing more and more edits by you as you work through FM:SLDF - you've definitely earned another Casual Edit Award for the way you're datamining your way through that sourcebook. Keep it up! Cheesy.gif
Casual Edit Award, 2nd ribbon BrokenMnemonic (talk) 02:37, 2 March 2017 (EST)
Thanks! Just another day in the mines!CungrVanck (talk) 14:14, 6 March 2017 (EST)

Category issues[edit]

I see from your edit summary that you're having issues with categories. Well I've noticed that too, with another article, and raised the issue with Nic on his talk page: User talk:Nicjansma#Problem with Categories. Perhaps you want to add your problem description. Frabby (talk) 15:22, 17 January 2017 (EST)

Award for doing the dog work.[edit]

Good evening CV,

All Purpose Award, 2nd ribbon

I just wanted to give you an award for the datamining work you have been doing from FM:3145, One small caveat is that I do not believe we need the unit strengths listed in the planet articles, but the dog work of actually updating the military deployments on all the planets in the first place deserves an award as in of itself it is one of those boring jobs that needs keeping on top of.--Dmon (talk) 18:38, 23 August 2019 (EDT)

Good morning Dmon. Thanks for the recognition. The dog work is the best project for me, as you can see from my edit history, I sometimes am away for months due to life. As for the unit strengths being referenced, that's an easy fix. Have a great weekend! Back to the mines! CungrVanck (talk) 14:11, 24 August 2019 (EDT)

Thule[edit]

Hey CV,

Good work on the Thule article, I did some minor changes to the article to bring it in line with something I am doing across the wiki. I am creating planet specific redirects, so Thule II will redirect to part of the article rather than the whole article. As a result I am shuffling the planet specific sections to be under the planet section. It does not really do much to single world systems but multi-world articles it will hopefully break them up a bit.--Dmon (talk) 21:19, 7 October 2020 (EDT)

Good afternoon Dmon. Thanks for the compliment! Its funny you posted this as I was just thinking if there was any info on Thule I. Looks like you made some other changes as well regarding Era headlines as well. I will endeavor to follow this preferred layout as previously I listed everything under their corresponding Eras. Heading back to the Thule article in an attempt to clean up some of the verbiage.--CungrVanck (talk) 13:54, 8 October 2020 (EDT)

Ripple[edit]

You're my hero for today. You're the first person to improve an article listed in the "Needs Improvement?" column, and are helping me validate the existence of that column. Thank you. --Revanche (talk|contribs) 21:13, 30 May 2021 (EDT)

Good morning Revanche Glad I could assist! When I saw the "Need Improvement?" section, I was wondering if that was new or not.CungrVanck (talk) 07:08, 1 June 2021 (EDT)
Brand-spankin' new. The intention is to add a new article every week, so I'm glad you hit that one before it fell off.--Revanche (talk|contribs) 07:53, 1 June 2021 (EDT)

Richthofen[edit]

Morning, CungrVanck. I just wanted to tell you why I changed your link. I noticed that other non-Bloodnamed Clan characters (with only a single name) are wikilinked with just that name (rather than having the Clan appended). Durn is an example of this, as is Paul. And, yes, red-links are a good thing to have here, so good on ya.--Revanche (talk|contribs) 08:29, 2 June 2021 (EDT)

Would you like me to move Hewe (Nova Cat) to Hewe?--Revanche (talk|contribs) 08:31, 2 June 2021 (EDT)
If that is the correct way, then yes please move the article Revanche. Though I raise this question, what if we have another Clan character appear with the same name in another piece of fiction? Hypothetically, we could have over a dozen articles for a Clan character named Richard.CungrVanck (talk) 08:36, 2 June 2021 (EDT)
Then we'd probably rename all of them into something that fit their situation (such as we have with the various Davions and Camerons that share names). I think the reason the character team went the way they did (single name vice added clan) is because some of the non-Bloodnamed characters have switched clans over time. When conflicts (of naming) come up, we use exceptions to the common naming rules to resolve them. Does that help?--Revanche (talk|contribs) 08:43, 2 June 2021 (EDT)
Yes, that does help. And I see you have already changed the other article, Volls, that I worked on this morning. Thanks again! CungrVanck (talk) 08:54, 2 June 2021 (EDT)

Reference placement[edit]

Hey CungrVanck,

Just a quick one, Is there a reason you are citing a reference on a characters name? It seems to be a slightly strange stylistic choice from my end.--Dmon (talk) 12:51, 3 June 2021 (EDT)

No, specific reason other than to say where I found the name. I assume the names won't appear anywhere else, but if they did, I would need to reference where they first appeared. That said, if that does not meet our quality standards, then will gladly change them.CungrVanck (talk) 13:03, 3 June 2021 (EDT)
It is not wrong as such, it just looks wrong to my eye having the citation in that part of the infobox, if that makes sense.--Dmon (talk) 13:06, 3 June 2021 (EDT)
Well, it if doesn't look correct, its an easy fix. I will go back and remove the reference. I see you already got one of them.CungrVanck (talk) 13:10, 3 June 2021 (EDT)
All removed Dmon.CungrVanck (talk) 13:30, 3 June 2021 (EDT)

"Passion" Project[edit]

Morning, CungrVanck. Personal question for you: what would you say your passion area is on Sarna? What do you think you prefer doing here the most?--Revanche (talk|contribs) 13:14, 12 June 2021 (EDT)

Evening, Revanche. Honestly, I just like adding information to the wiki when I can. A new article here, a clean up of one there, an upload of a new image or digging through all the materials to put everything I can find down for one planet. The effort helps me learn new things about the Lore and its kinda relaxing mentally. It's like working on a puzzle or brain teaser for me. I would love to help out on the larger projects, but my schedule is kinda hectic most days. I don't want to promise anything I may not be able to fulfill. So I add what I can and hope it helps the fan community and potentially any BattleTech writers who need information as they add to the Lore down the road.CungrVanck (talk) 19:50, 12 June 2021 (EDT)
Are you on the Discord server? I'd like to talk with you privately about what I'm thinking (taking into consideration what you've indicated here).--Revanche (talk|contribs) 21:01, 12 June 2021 (EDT)
Yes, I am on the Sarna Discord server. I am under the same name there. Look forward to hearing from you.CungrVanck (talk) 05:52, 13 June 2021 (EDT)

Character InfoBox[edit]

Hey CV,

Just noticed that the new character articles you are creating (thank you for doing a minor character deepdive by the way), You are using a depreciated version of the character infobox. The current version has a few more options, namely a section specifically for Rank, meaning a characters profession can indicate their service branch.

This is the current one as of April 2020, Template:InfoBoxCharacter.--Dmon (talk) 07:39, 20 June 2021 (EDT)

Thanks for pointing that out Dmon. Didn't catch that it was different from what I was using earlier. Will make corrections.CungrVanck (talk) 08:17, 20 June 2021 (EDT)
Easy mistake to make, especially since there are a good number of articles still using the older ones. I upgrade them when I find them but I ain't got the willpower to go through and upgrade the few thousand character articles in one go.--Dmon (talk) 08:35, 20 June 2021 (EDT)

Battle articles[edit]

Hey CV, I have seen that you are datamining TRO3025 and TRO2750. Don't forget the articles in Category:Third Succession War Era Military Operations. I imagine they are a mutch better place for stuff about specific fights than the planet article or the 'Mech article.--Dmon (talk) 10:37, 31 December 2021 (EST)

Weird question...[edit]

Hey CungrVanck,

Weird question but why are you changing the system article section steps from the standard two across the wiki to one? The Help:CreateSystemArticle has two.

Looking through your edit history up until November last year you where following the normal standard and then inexplicably in December you edited Sevren down to one step and have done so on every planet you have worked on since???--Dmon (talk) 19:34, 18 March 2022 (EDT)

Good morning. While my memory is fuzzy on it, I noticed on the Sevren article that the more steps you use on lower categories the smaller the section headers become. So I tried using one as the first headers instead of two which seemed to help resolve the problem. As it worked and I was unware of the two symbol standard, I think I just ran with it as I use past examples of existing articles to help guide me on future ones. So my fault on that one. I will make sure to use the standard going forward and then will correct the ones I have entered incorrectly.CungrVanck (talk) 06:27, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
Thank you for going back and fixing. Have an award for my appreciation. All Purpose Award, 3rd ribbon --Dmon (talk) 08:16, 21 March 2022 (EDT)
And thank you for the award! Now let me see what others awards I can shoot for.CungrVanck (talk) 12:20, 21 March 2022 (EDT)

Unblooded Clan Characters[edit]

CungrVanck,

In relation to all the Clan Wolf Sourcebook characters you are currently adding, I note a little while ago we tried to agree some guidelines on how to disambiguate the article names for unblooded Clan characters, which we incorporated here - Policy:Article_Naming#Clan_Characters. Hopefully this might help with the remainder of your work on that sourcebook.--HF22 (talk) 06:01, 1 September 2022 (EDT)

Good morning. Thank you for sharing that as I was unaware of the formal guidelines. It will be most helpful as I have currently found three Clan Wolf MechWarriors named Bishop who piloted Timber Wolf 'Mechs in Operation Revival. I expect I'll find a few more as I am only 40% through the pilot names in the Wolf Clan Sourcebook.CungrVanck (talk) 07:45, 1 September 2022 (EDT)
First off, thanks for your continuing effort re: the phone book listings for Wolf Clan Sourcebook and (probably later on) Jade Falcon Clan Sourcebook. If I still had access to both, I'd be trying to create new articles to help you out! :)
Point 1 Concern about title disambiguation: Hi, noticed that there were more Bloodnameless entries from Clan Wolf sourcebook todayish (September 21, 2022) that were using "xx (Clan Wolf)" or "xx (CW)" for article title disambiguation rather than using phenotype/unit for article disambiguation.
I've noticed it for the following characters exclusively from the Wolf Clan sourcebook.
  • Dena/Dena (Clan Wolf)
  • Dena Shaw/Dena Shaw (CW)
  • Bovvin/Bovvin (Clan Wolf)
  • Puja/Puja (Clan Wolf)
  • Thilla/Thilla (Clan Wolf)
  • Skylar/Skylar (Clan Wolf)
  • Moder/Moder (Clan Wolf)
  • others
I've provided suggestions in discussions for what to rename Dena articles, Dena Shaw articles, and Bovvin articles, but those discussions take a while to reference and type out.
Open question regarding Point 1: Is it useful for me to call out all the articles that need to be renamed (since I can't rename them myself), along with the suggested article names, or is that effort by myself unnecessary?
Point 2 Kudos for disambiguation articles: I saw that a few articles have been set up for the most egregious warriors that share the same name (like Zasser (disambiguation)), which is an excellent way to internally keep track of each warrior with the same name as you are adding new articles. Since I can create new articles (including disambiguation articles), I'll try to assist with the creation of disambiguation articles, like "Gell (disambiguation)"
75.23.228.139 12:50, 21 September 2022 (EDT)
Good afternoon! Pleasure to hear from you and thanks for the compliments. This project has gotten a bit more complicated than I expected when I got into it and I appreciate all advice and input.
In regards to Point 1, I was unaware of the official naming conventions when I started this so some of these you listed were when I was unaware. Case in point, the Dena Shaw (CW) item. I should not have done that, but I do not have the ability to change article names either. Just your humble data miner :) Now as for using the character's name and then character's name plus Clan name, I think there is some confusion on my part. Per the formal rules, we just use the character name and nothing else for the first mention. When a second character appears with the same name, do I use the (Clan Name) format or do I skip directly to the phenotype label? I think that is the hang up I am having.
Just to quickly interject. I think all Senior Editors got the ability to rename pages, by using the move tab at the top of each page, so you should be able to do it CungrVanck, if you are comfortable doing so. Otherwise if anyone has a list of pages which need to be renamed I am happy to process them. --HF22 (talk) 01:31, 22 September 2022 (EDT)
Good morning HF22! After your message, I checked and I do indeed have the ability to rename pages! No one told me I could do that. I have fixed the most obvious error, but will hold off on others until I continue on through the phone book. Once I have a full idea of just whom we have listed, the changes may be easier to organize. Thanks for the info and I appreciate any feedback you may have!CungrVanck (talk) 09:12, 22 September 2022 (EDT)
Now that being said, considering I am only half way through the Wolf Clan phone book and the same people wrote the Jade Falcon sourcebook, I fully expect to find similar amounts of the same names in that book. So would I start with Zasser (Jade Falcon) and then skip directly to the Zasser (Unit name)? Leaving aside any potential characters from the other Clans from books of the time. Could get a bit messy there, but we will power through.
In regards to Point 2, Thanks again. I am using the rule of 3 on those disambiguation pages. I do not create one until there are three articles with similar names. So far I think I may have created half a dozen at most. Nothing too extensive there right now.
I appreciate any additional feedback you may have.CungrVanck (talk) 13:35, 21 September 2022 (EDT)
Re: Point 1, inability to change article names
Yikes, I thought that permission was reserved for users that had profiles, but based on your statement that you, having a profile, cannot change article names. This inability makes your phone book logging task along with the Clan unblooded disambiguation task very difficult since your profile only has permissions to set article names at the time of article creation (like me), but you won't know if an article needs to go down the disambiguation hierarchy until you are done logging the entire phone book.
Might be worth asking one of the mods/admins if your profile can be given access to change article names, given the unsorted phone book nature of the xx Clan Sourcebooks, and given the need to disambiguate articles with similar names while going down that list. Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure who could grant that kind of access, and that assumes that they'd be willing to do so.
There is an alternative to that access that I can see:
1. Someone comes up with an easy way to identify lists of articles that need to be named after the articles have been created, and then gives that list to someone who can change article names. This is basically what I did circa late August 2022 (identified any Clan Wolf warrior article with surname of Wolf) and HF22 was the one who actually made the appropriate changes. However, that gets cumbersome really fast.
Maybe there's another way to resolve this issue of being able to disambiguate entries on an (partially) unsorted list after the fact, such as creating a database of the phone book entries (with fields for "name", "faction affiliation", "phenotype", and "unit"), so that we could find the conflicts before creating the article(s). However, creation of a database before creating articles to avoid collision seems a bit overkill. :(
Regarding whether it is a useful exercise for me to identify articles that need to be renamed, I would assume that it is still useful, but I'm not sure how to present it in a way to an admin so that it is easy for them to make the article changes.
75.23.228.139 14:06, 21 September 2022 (EDT)

In a related topic, I think the issue of having to clarify disambiguation policies (and having to come up with creative ways to identify potential collisions) is an excellent problem for a BattleTech wiki to have, because it means that BattleTech has a rich enough background that there could be vastly different topics that all have the same name (like Lee (disambiguation)), which was the whole point of having a BattleTech wiki in the first place.

This topic is getting a little complex to be on one person's talk page, even if this topic primarily impacts the effort of one person. Wouldn't be surprised if this discussion gets moved to a policy page.

Thanks again for the work you've put into documenting the Clan phone books.

75.23.228.139 14:19, 21 September 2022 (EDT)

And thank you for the assistance! As for obtaining access to change article names, I may know someone. Let me drop a line and find out. By the way, are you on the Sarna Discord? If so, what is your handle there? Ah...I see you now. Message sent! CungrVanck (talk) 14:25, 21 September 2022 (EDT)
No, I'm not on the Sarna Discord, so I wouldn't have a handle there. 75.23.228.139 15:00, 21 September 2022 (EDT)