User talk:Dmon

Archives and Project List[edit]


Quintus Allard[edit]

Hi Dmon,

Why do we not consider the head of the espionage of House Davion as an spy?--Pserratv (talk) 08:22, 2 January 2020 (EST)

Because we have no known cases of him acting as a spy. He was a diplomat and then minister of intelligence, they are both roles as a goverment official and who he is and what he does would be matters of public record.--Dmon (talk) 08:32, 2 January 2020 (EST)

MechForce (Video Game)[edit]

Following your decision regarding Titans of Steel, do you feel MechForce (Video Game) should also be dumped? It doesn't appear to be a BT-related game, canon or fanon, and is far from a useful article, as it presently stands.--Revanche (talk|contribs) 11:20, 20 January 2020 (EST)

The article itself suffers pretty badly from the "data dump" that video game articles seem to aquire and as such needs a massive cleanup. I have a suspiccion that the article does belong here but possibly more in the way that we have articles about the Unseen and the ELH copyright case. From what I can tell the game was something similar to what MegaMek is today with the main difference being that CGL/Microsoft allow MegaMek to operate but FASA apparently at very least threatened the creator of MechForce with legal action.
I have a friend who is big into the retro games scene who I have asked to put some feelers out and see if he can dig anything up for us.--Dmon (talk) 11:35, 20 January 2020 (EST)
Excellent. Thank you.--Revanche (talk|contribs) 14:13, 20 January 2020 (EST)

Star Lord notes[edit]

Hiya, wanted to ask why you axed the Notes section in the Star Lord (novel) article? I agree that details on Dawn's future may not be relevant, but I thought the part about "Thomas Marik" in the book being almost certainly the double is worth mentioning. Frabby (talk) 04:59, 21 February 2020 (EST)

Hey Frabby, I removed the note about Dawn pretty much for the reason you stated. The part about using the head to test the DNA of Stefan Amaris VII is interesting but also utter speculation. "Thomas Marik" for the purposes of the story is Thomas Marik with no indication that he is acting in any capacity other than as the ruler of the FWL. In universe the other characters consider him to be Thomas Marik and the revelations about him being a plant are largely another decade off. As such I felt that the note had very little relevance to the book.--Dmon (talk) 09:34, 21 February 2020 (EST)


Thanks for the nomination!! What I would love would be to one day this year if possible write or reddo an article which I really feel is a very good improvement as and stand alone contribution. I have one in mind, complex and that might well spur some interesting "discussions". I'll just need to find the time. My daughter wAS BORN Premature this past year and its being hard, hapyilly hard, but nevertheless hard (the capital letters here are her doing as its helping me write :).--Pserratv (talk) 06:15, 22 February 2020 (EST)

My pleasure PS, you deserve all the nominations for all of the awards :-p. I am really bad at writing articles myself so I totally understand the desire to make a stand alone contribution like that. Kinda why I put so much time into digging out all of the noble families and titles. Over time I think it has started to become something useful to people.
I am so glad your daughter is doing well, my sisters youngest was a month premature so I understand some of the issues you must of faced. Even more respect my friend!--Dmon (talk) 06:45, 22 February 2020 (EST)

House Steiner Family Tree[edit]

My physical of House Steiner family tree from House Steiner and from House Steiner (The Lyran Commonwealth) are very different as we are seeing. Which is the good source?? I do not want to start changing without first asking.--Pserratv (talk) 13:02, 27 February 2020 (EST)

I think it might be a case of checking as many sources as we can and build a tree based on evidence from multiple sources where we can. So I think a good starting point is finding the differences as it will give us an idea just how much we need to check.--Dmon (talk) 13:07, 27 February 2020 (EST)
There's also a pretty clear guideline for cases of directly contradictory information, namely that later sources trump earlier sources - but only if they truly contradict each other, and only in the absence of other rulings or information. Frabby (talk) 16:36, 27 February 2020 (EST)
I started on the House Davion family tree and have run into the same problem right away. It's going to be a deep dive into several books to truly make sense of the inconsistencies. I agree with Frabby, though, newer sources supersede old unless specifically ruled otherwise.--Cache (talk) 10:44, 28 February 2020 (EST)
If you have scans of those family trees, I'd love to get copies of them... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 15:48, 28 February 2020 (EST)

Character Articles[edit]

Hi Dmon,

I'm a bit slow these days, but I just noticed when digging out a minor character article I'd put in (to use as a template for the next) that where I've been listing people's professions (MechWarrior, military officer, etc) you've been swapping them instead to their most recent rank. I just wanted to check the reasoning, because I'm a little nonplussed - to me, a rank isn't a profession or an occupation. In my line of work, a General's profession isn't being a General, it's being an Army officer - being a General is just one particular moment in their overall career. In theory, where we've got people mentioned in multiple sources over the course of their career, if I'm to list their current rank as their profession, the articles run the risk of being out of date. Gavilán Camacho is a Major in the novel I'm data-mining at the moment, but I know from other articles on Sarna that he later becomes a Lieutenant Colonel, and then a full Colonel. To me, his profession is the same - he's a mercenary officer - but his rank changes with each source, so it makes more sense to me to keep his profession as mercenary officer. What're your thoughts? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 07:55, 2 March 2020 (EST)

Hey BM,
The short answer to the question is that I use the characters highers rank / position or what ever their career high point mostly out of personal preference. Longer answer is that the character infobox needs updating to include titles, ranks and positions because profession on it's own is borderline redundant when boiled down to things like Noble, Military officer, mercenary, politician and Mechwarrior. Due to the nature of the BT universe we could probably use the Mechwarrior profession on 95% of all character articles, I do not think that would be of any use to anybody. At the same time updating the infobox for every character article would be a titanic task and would likely be quite time consuming. So instead I have chosen to take the attitude that the content of the profession listing is a flexible thing.--Dmon (talk) 19:46, 2 March 2020 (EST)
I'm personally not all that bothered by so many MechWarriors appear on here (although, if we ever do actually generate an article for every character ever mentioned, there should be a fair number of nobles, pilots et al to go with them) … in part, I'm not bothered, because worrying about lots of 'Mech jocks being listed on a wiki that's predominantly all about 'Mechs feels a little like worrying that a wiki about plumbing mentions a lot of plumbers, tap-fitters and sanitation engineers... Wink.gif BrokenMnemonic (talk) 15:33, 6 March 2020 (EST)

Thanks for deleting what I detect from time to time[edit]

Just that.--Pserratv (talk) 06:07, 2 April 2020 (EDT)

The wiki is a team effort man, helping each other out is what it is all about! Wink.gif--Dmon (talk) 07:29, 2 April 2020 (EDT)

Planets Category[edit]

Hi Dmon - I just wanted to ask, is it worth asking Nic if he can run a bot to replace Category: Planets with Category: Systems in all the planets articles, rather than doing them all manually? It might save a bit of time... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 03:02, 3 April 2020 (EDT)

It certainly is. But then there's the faction categories which still go for "planet" instead of "system" - the idea of automating the process is one of the reasons I had raised the point. I don't see how we can automate the updating of some 157 sub-categories. Many (most?) of these will be smallish categories that could be done manually, but combined it's a big workload. And more importantly, there are significant overlaps, so when manually doing a system article you can fix all its categories. Not sure if that's easily possible with a bot. But that's for Nic to answer. Frabby (talk) 04:35, 3 April 2020 (EDT)
I was thinking about asking him but have realised that we likely have no way of getting a bot to do the planet redirects with roman numerals so it would partially render the change pointless. I am ok to do it manually as long as people don't mind me doing it at the rate of a few a day rather than trying to do it in one go and losing my sanity!--Dmon (talk) 06:45, 3 April 2020 (EDT)
Np, I'll check the double redirects as I've taken this as my personal control zone trying to avoid them. Good luck and patience.--Pserratv (talk) 10:16, 3 April 2020 (EDT)

Clan Engines[edit]

I have been thinking on how to tackle Clan Engines. Most of the time they are not branded, so for example 305 XL, but there are a few cases were they are branded... and of course without any kind of rule or logic that I can see. How would you do this for the Engines project.--Pserratv (talk) 07:42, 15 May 2020 (EDT)

Hey PS, at the moment I think any unbranded engine Clan or IS would be ok to simply link to for example 250 Extralight Fusion Engine rather than the branded Magna 250 XL sub-section. At some point I do intend to create an engine specific infobox that will have details of IS and Clan versions. I just need to sit down and figure out the best way to make it work.--Dmon (talk) 08:21, 15 May 2020 (EDT)

Ciro Ramirez[edit]

I do not own the english version of the Lethal Heritage books, but being spanish I know how we organize our surnames. Ciro Oquendo y Ramirez is indeed a full name, usually meaning Ciro's father's surname is Oquendo and Ramirez being the mother's first surname. I know he is in the 1st Somerset Strikers (sourcebook) named as Ciro Ramirez... but I can tell you that is not the spanish way to build the surnames.--Pserratv (talk) 13:32, 16 May 2020 (EDT)

I did not know surnames where handled differently in spain, so thank you for correcting me. 1st Somerset Strikers does list his full name as Ciro Oquendo y Ramirez in the text of the profile if not the main title. But this does mean that the name becomes quite long and distorts the infobox a bit. So what would be the correct way to shorten a name in spain?--Dmon (talk) 13:39, 16 May 2020 (EDT)
We do not shorten them to be sincere now, but nobles of the past usually highlighted their first surname as in Medieval ages, the male's surname was the most important. The spanish version of the book names Ciro as Ciro Oquendo when reducing his name.
Historically speaking, if the woman was of noble born and her family had money and titles, surnames were linked by the "y" or "-", but this is not even happening now. Indeed now, when your first son/daughter is born you can select the order of his surname. By default is 1st father and then 1st mother, but you can order them the other way around.
Everybody in Spain, and also central and south america has the two surnames.--Pserratv (talk) 14:13, 16 May 2020 (EDT)
Cool info, thanks Pere. May be worth getting an official answer on the BT Forum's Ask The Line Developer section. Frabby (talk) 14:33, 16 May 2020 (EDT)
A ok, so it is essentially the same thing as the British hyphenated name but reversed, the "traditional" way it is handled in england is the womans name first and the males afterwards and any shortened version would just use the male's name as it is mostly taken in order to preserve a family name which would have become extinct due to the absence of male descendants bearing the name, connected to the inheritance of a family estate. Outside nobility such names are unusual.
Also just checked Lethal Heritage and Ciro's name is shortened to Oquendo in the english version too.--Dmon (talk) 15:10, 16 May 2020 (EDT)
Checking his biography, it is a Ramirez who got the medal from Kerenky, so he and his famili would like to make that relevant.Pserratv (talk) 18:13, 16 May 2020 (EDT)

Moratorium Policy[edit]

Regarding the Moratorium Policy, shell entries can be created as long as no narrative information is included, correct? An example being Marotta Kerensky right after the publication of Divided We Fall. Thanks. --Ebakunin (talk|contribs) 20:00, 26 May 2020 (EDT)

The policy itself does not actually say anything about shell aricles beyond creating an article for the product itself. Up until now I had not actually realised that this is not specifically outlined in the policy. I tend not to create them myself for fear of giving the wrong impression to editors who might go onto violate the Moratorium Policy by mistake, but that is just my personal take on this aspect.--Dmon (talk) 20:18, 26 May 2020 (EDT)
Fwiw, I never considered shell articles a problem and even think they're good to have, to show users that yes, we're aware of this issue but refrain from covering it in detail just for a bit. Keep in mind that the Moratorium policy is a self-imposed policy with the goal of not spoiling info from new commercial releases, nothing more, nothing less. Shell articles don't spoil anything. Frabby (talk) 00:58, 27 May 2020 (EDT)

Moratoriums on 'Mechs[edit]

Divided We Fall includes the complete technical readout of the brand new Dominator 'Mech. Are those specs also covered by the moratorium policy? Thanks. --Ebakunin (talk|contribs) 17:09, 31 May 2020 (EDT)

There will be people out there who would buy the book just for those stats so I would say the stats are very much under the moratorium.--Dmon (talk) 17:46, 31 May 2020 (EDT)

First names vs. Last Names?[edit]

Dmon - Did they change the policy regarding using a character's first name as opposed to their last name? Thanks. ClanWolverine101 (talk) 17:14, 31 May 2020 (EDT)

I didn't actually know it was a policy, most of the time I have just been doing what feels best as I am writing. I am a pretty weak article writer, I just stitch together little factoids and it can feel a bit odd repeating their name in every one.--Dmon (talk) 17:50, 31 May 2020 (EDT)
For what its worth, i like most of your writing. I was just asking because when i read your articles, it seems to be a lot of first names, which isn't standard on other wikis. ClanWolverine101 (talk) 18:35, 31 May 2020 (EDT)
I shall try to mix it up a bit better in future! Wink.gif--Dmon (talk) 19:52, 31 May 2020 (EDT)

Minsk silhouette Replacement Image[edit]

Hi Dmon, sorry bother you about minor issue. A new editor uploaded Matt Plog's art for the forth coming Minsk to be featured in Technical Readout: Golden Century. Problem is he uploaded over the Silhouette of the Minsk, which as far i'm aware not the place to put it. I hate delete a "new" editors work, would you be able talk to him/her about that's not how we do it. Silhouette was canon allowable image until the image was legally open to use. We've lost / ticked off players by undoing new-editor like moves. I'm nearly semi-retired (let's face it i can't keep up with all rapid-fire editing done now) so it's best for active editor to talk to this person. -- Wrangler (talk) 22:31, 19 June 2020 (EDT) ‎

Realistically speaking, that is not the silhouette of the Minsk. That is the silhouette of the nuSeen Warhammer that was used to represent the Minsk. The real issue is that the artwork currently falls under the moratorium period and needs to be taken down.--Cache (talk) 16:07, 20 June 2020 (EDT)
Of course, after reverting the image, I realize that I was mistaken on the moratorium violation. The image was given out as a free preview on the BT forum, so it does not fall under moratorium. As for the silhouette, do we need to get tied up in labeling a placeholder image as a canon silhouette? Or can we just rename the image to reflect the new artwork?--Cache (talk) 16:18, 20 June 2020 (EDT)
Sorry I have taken all day to get back on this. The image is not under Moratorium but it does need to be named correctly, meaning I do still need to have a word with the initial uploader to let them know we are not deleting their work. I do not think we need to worry about labeling the place holder but I am going to do a fresh upload of the Minsk artwork as the silhouette file has no real relation to the Minsk file. --Dmon (talk) 16:26, 20 June 2020 (EDT)
The Silhouette was used for the Minsk from the Turning Points: Tokasha, which was valid canon image(at the time) so it could use for it. I was aware it was NuSeen Warhammer, but it was the image which was being used at the time as "sneak preview" for the Minsk. I'm not internally sure the NuSeen Warhammer had officially come out at that moment in time. The image can be changed or removed since it will not be needed anymore since I was the one whom uploaded it as the Minsk Silhouette in the first place. The silhouette could be still in use for other things if the Classic Warhammer image isn't entirely wiped out. -- Wrangler (talk) 08:21, 22 June 2020 (EDT)

First Strike Pilots[edit]

Dmon - Quick question - do you think the pilots in the First Strike book are worthy of their own articles? Thanks. ClanWolverine101 (talk) 22:16, 2 July 2020 (EDT)

I do. Something I have learned over my time on the wiki is that the writers of the BT universe spend an enormous amount of effort filling every product with tiny links to the rest of the universe. With the number of characters in First Strike I am almost certain at least some of them will show up in other products.--Dmon (talk) 22:33, 2 July 2020 (EDT)
Fair enough. Thanks. ClanWolverine101 (talk) 22:39, 2 July 2020 (EDT)
Even if they do not. Going through the book I also managed to pin down the death of Colonel Bartholomew Alcàla and close the gap we had in the table of commaning officer of the 1st Free Worlds Guards and add some place names to planet articles so I think the effort is worth it.--Dmon (talk) 22:44, 2 July 2020 (EDT)

Zibler's House undos[edit]

I saw you reverted my changes. Can I ask why? The brother added has the 3 of them market as his family (siblings), so if it is a mistake in the original one, we should correct it right?--Pserratv (talk) 14:57, 18 July 2020 (EDT)

What brother? Heather is the mother.--Dmon (talk) 15:03, 18 July 2020 (EDT)
I'm very tired... 16h working and at least 3 more to go...--Pserratv (talk) 16:55, 18 July 2020 (EDT)
I know the feeling man, In my old job I did 3 years of 70hr working weeks. I didn't know what felt like not to be tired.--Dmon (talk) 17:44, 18 July 2020 (EDT)
This has been my latest months, from Monday to Sunday... --Pserratv (talk) 17:53, 18 July 2020 (EDT)
Sad times man.--Dmon (talk) 18:03, 18 July 2020 (EDT)
I miss being with my family, I miss my friends and I miss writing here.--Pserratv (talk) 18:26, 18 July 2020 (EDT)

Delete pages[edit]

Hi Dmon, can you delete this unused and/or wrong categories:

I would say we should also delete as it no longer fits the Wiki:

This is of course a suggestion.--Pserratv (talk) 10:53, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

Thanks!!--Pserratv (talk) 13:05, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

Category Uncategorized files[edit]

Should we create a "Category" for the Maps?? To clean this category?--Pserratv (talk) 11:04, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

I am not sure how the bot works so I am not sure if there would be a knock on effect when the planets team next update the images.--Dmon (talk) 13:00, 19 July 2020 (EDT)
Nothing then, I'll try to sort out from here not planet maps and that is all.--Pserratv (talk) 13:04, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

Article Naming for battles[edit]

I noticed that you recently moved several articles for battles to include the year of the engagement. (For example, Battle of Wolcott to Battle of Wolcott (3050).) The relevant policy seems to indicate that the year should be included only when there were multiple battles at the same location. Am I missing something here? I ask because I recently split off a new article for the Battle of Huntress, and I anticipate working on the Battle of Trafalgar in the near future, and I want to be consistent with current policy. Tosta Dojen (talk) 15:03, 25 July 2020 (EDT)

Hey TD,
In truth I should probably update the wording of the policy. I tend to put the date in as standard because given the nature of the BTU (the setting of a war game) it is fairly safe to assume most planets have seen more than one military action.--Dmon (talk) 17:09, 25 July 2020 (EDT)
If it's up for discussion, I think the policy is better as it stands. While you're correct that naming conflicts will come up frequently, that's adequately handled by including the date when the name is otherwise ambiguous. I don't think it's a good reason to include the date by default when there's no actual conflict. It seems jarring to me to refer to the "Battle of Trafalgar (3059)" or the "Battle of the Kyoto Zen Arcology Project (3072)" when there are no other battles with those names. Tosta Dojen (talk) 12:20, 26 July 2020 (EDT)
Everything is up for discussion and review, continued refinement is a good thing. In this case though I do not really feel that strongly about changing the policy it is just an idea. Project Battles has been on the backburner for about a year and is currently little more than a list mostly lifted from TRO:3025, a list somebody put together of Wolf's Dragoons battles and the skeleton of a category system.--Dmon (talk) 13:23, 26 July 2020 (EDT)
I'll keep my current initiatives as they are, then. I've added Policy:Article Naming to my watchlist, so if there's a discussion over there about implementing your proposed change, I'll weigh in. Tosta Dojen (talk) 14:14, 26 July 2020 (EDT)