Sarna News: Bad 'Mechs - Clint

User talk:Raven 2C


Welcome, Raven 2C, to BattleTechWiki!

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*******Be Bold*******


Hi Raven,

I was poking around this morning, and I noticed that one of the things you're doing among the changes you've made in the various articles on primitive tech and components is bolding the page name throughout the articles. It's not obvious from the Manual of Style incorporated here from wikipedia, but I was picked up by Frabby for doing the same thing back when I started editing; apparently, the wikipedia convention is that the article or subject name should be bolded within the article text only the first time that it's used. I don't think it's a big thing but I thought I should mention it. BrokenMnemonic 08:04, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Ok. Thanks for telling me, just didn't know...--Raven 2C 17:08, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
No harm, no foul Smiley.gif It's just one of those things, and I don't want you discouraged from keeping up the good work. BrokenMnemonic 18:30, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Casual Edit award[edit]

Hi Raven 2C, I saw your copyedits to the Ignis page... and I very much appreciate your doing hard and unrewarding (but nonetheless important!) work like that. Have an award. Frabby 14:18, 19 December 2011 (PST)
Casual Edit Award, 1st ribbon

Oh, thanks! Is this supposed to be added to my user page or something?--Raven 2C 14:40, 19 December 2011 (PST)
Absolutely. I'll set this one up for you. Take a look at BattleTechWiki:Awards to see what others we have and which ones you can add automatically. Good job, by the way. --Revanche (talk|contribs) 14:49, 19 December 2011 (PST)


Hy, please don't edit created spam bot pages, the spambot can use your ip to provide more vandalism, the admins delete the pages and created account.--Doneve 18:27, 21 December 2011 (PST)

Ok. Again, just didn't know.--Raven 2C 15:52, 22 December 2011 (PST)

Hello and Thanks[edit]

Hey Raven2C, thanks for doing a careful proofing on Stephen McKenna and other articles like that. After I've stared at the letters for too long, I read what I know to be there, and not what is actually there sometimes. Fresh, sharp eyes make all the difference. Rebs (talk) 22:31, 30 December 2012 (PST)

Hi Rebs. Youre welcome. Just doing what I can, since I don't really have any source books, but I do have a passion for Battletech as well as making everything a bit neat. Happy New Year, btw!--Raven 2C (talk) 13:02, 31 December 2012 (PST)
Happy New Year to you as well, Raven. You are welcome to proofread anything I've done, I for one would really appreciate it in any instance. I'll be back writing as soon as family stuff permits serious dedication. Rebs (talk) 17:10, 1 January 2013 (PST)

Congratulations and Thank You[edit]

Saw your 1-year edit. Glad to have you with us.--Revanche (talk|contribs) 17:46, 4 May 2013 (PDT)

Hi!I am quite glad to be here; nice place and atmosphere--Raven 2C (talk) 17:57, 4 May 2013 (PDT)


I notice you have a lack of sources, come to aris forum, and we help you.--Doneve (talk) 19:09, 13 June 2013 (PDT)

Which aris forum? Not quite sure what you mean, sorry.--Raven 2C (talk) 16:19, 16 June 2013 (PDT)
How can i send you a pm.--Doneve (talk) 17:02, 18 June 2013 (PDT)
I'm registered on the bg.BT forums as Raven IIC. Does this help?--Raven 2C (talk) 18:01, 18 June 2013 (PDT)
Alright, will do. Though I prefer to keep my personal data private, that's why I tried to avoid the email method at first.
Yep this is the best way, sent me a test mail, i delete my email address from the talk, oh and no harm, i use your emails private, iam not a spammer or or, we are a family here on sarna.--Doneve (talk) 18:16, 18 June 2013 (PDT)
Test on its way, should be.--Raven 2C (talk) 18:32, 18 June 2013 (PDT)
Responded.--Doneve (talk) 18:44, 18 June 2013 (PDT)
I see all works well ;).--Doneve (talk) 16:27, 19 June 2013 (PDT)
Indeed. But most information was obtained from Solaris Skunk Werks; just needed clarification. Thanks again! ;)--Raven 2C (talk) 18:14, 19 June 2013 (PDT)


Hy Raven 2C, i see you fix some things on 'Mech pages, but the change from defense to defence is not logical to me.--Doneve (talk) 17:02, 17 August 2013 (PDT)

Hi, Doneve. "Defense" and "defence" I probably should change, as I have checked, and "defense" would be a more appropriate version to use. "Defence" i suppose is more of a word for sports. Thanks for pointing that out :) --Raven 2C (talk) 18:55, 17 August 2013 (PDT)
Just fixed recent articles that had these changes. --Raven 2C (talk) 19:01, 17 August 2013 (PDT)
No problem dude, but it was a eye catcher to me, you know english is my second language, not perfect in writing but iam good in reading, and thanks for fixing.--Doneve (talk) 22:14, 17 August 2013 (PDT)
I have to keep making sure I use "defense" rather than "defence" - being British, I'm used to defence (as in, Ministry of Defence) but I was told by Rev that Sarna uses US English, and I gather in the US it's "defense". I have to keep remembering to strip the "u"'s out of things like favour, colour and armour, too. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 06:10, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
BM, I have about the same issue, although I am not British, but I sometimes feel like that is the way to write. In addition, Linux uses SpellCheck with the "English (United Kingdom)" setting by default, so it throws me off a bit sometimes. Will have to change that.--Raven 2C (talk) 07:49, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
I'm sure that you could download an "American" spell check and make your lives much easier... -BobTheZombie (talk) 18:05, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
Evening, gentlemen: don't stress out about these things. A fair portion of us are American, but I suspect a near-equal amount are from elsewhere. Feel free to write in the vernacular that makes this easiest for you, but realize ('realise' may be better Wink.gif) that someone else may come along and change it to American English. Don't see it as a reflection on you, but as some editors seeking to bring the article into line with the publishers of BattleTech. Similarly, to my American colleagues, feel free to change these 'mis-spellings', but be aware the words (however they are spelled (spelt?)) are perfectly fine to have here and the editors themselves do not need to be 'corrected'. That's my two hundredths of a c-bill.
Keep up the good work.--Revanche (talk|contribs) 18:30, 18 August 2013 (PDT)

Writing Styles of Articles[edit]

Hi Raven 2C. About those changes you made recently, changing things to present sense. All articles on are written from prespective of being written from the future. Thus everyting seems to be "past" tense. -- Wrangler (talk) 15:32, 18 August 2013 (PDT)

Wrangler, that's not completely true. While events that happened at a specific point in time (Fourth Succession War, development of a given piece of equipment, career of a character) are written in past tense, things that are not associated with a given point in time such as 'Mech articles are written in present tense. Frabby (talk) 15:38, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
Yes, I agree with Frabby. Unless the article is about something (that something being a vehicle or equipment) that has gone extinct, it could probably be written in present tense. However, maybe if the object in question has a history in its description, maybe that should be written in past tense. --Raven 2C (talk)
I used to put everything in past tense, but now have been doing present tense for vehicles, mechs, weapons, etc. ... but usually I use past tense when the subject is in question. Just my two cents. -BobTheZombie (talk) 17:45, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
Well, i was trained by Rev as to write this particular way. Reason being to maintain it was due to the fact, we maybe right now writing about units new for 3145. What about next TRO in set in completely different year? 3145 isn't going be forever the articles should be written to reflect that. However it appears I'm minority in this. Sorry in troubling you. -- Wrangler (talk) 17:54, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
I'm actually fine with these discussions, as they help me understand a bit more about how things should be, when to do what, etc.--Raven 2C (talk)
Hey, Wrangler: you aren't wrong but I think you and I are now in the minority (as you said) on this. Maybe the best way to view it is: historical articles are in the past, while equipment articles are always in the present, as they may 'still' exist. Afterall, even the Mackie may be operational somewhere. --Revanche (talk|contribs) 18:33, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
Hello, Revanche. Thanks for adding to our discussion. Is there way, do we actually have a clear writing guideline written down somewhere? I know nuthing forever, things must change. I don't want mislead Raven 2C into thinking its something I came up with on my own. -- Wrangler (talk) 18:57, 18 August 2013 (PDT)

Vehicles Timetable and Aerospace Fighter Timetable[edit]

Hy Raven 2C, i have a question to you! Have you any experience in semantic wiki codeing. I want to create a Vehicles Timetable and Aerospace Fighter Timetable as the layout like the BattleMech Timetable.--Doneve (talk) 09:23, 20 August 2013 (PDT)

Hi, Doneve. I have no experience in such work, but it would be nice to get some experience (if possible).--Raven 2C (talk) 09:26, 20 August 2013 (PDT)
Ok, I talk to Mbear and hope he can help us.--Doneve (talk) 09:36, 20 August 2013 (PDT)
Hy, i created my first semantic wiki timetable, please take a look, Combat Vehicle Timetable, the page works as the same the BattleMech Timetable to add the production year row and mul link row to the infox.--Doneve (talk) 08:51, 21 August 2013 (PDT)
Ugh the Vehicle and Fighter timetable work not correctly, i must talk to Seth.--Doneve (talk) 12:57, 21 August 2013 (PDT)
Ok. They look good, btw. I'll get started as soon as the rest of the 'Mechs are done.--Raven 2C (talk) 12:58, 21 August 2013 (PDT)
Hy again, i must update the combat vehicle infobox, now it works yuhu, take a look on the AC/2 Carrier page and klick on the production year link.--Doneve (talk) 13:02, 21 August 2013 (PDT)
Aha, so that's how it works (production year updating). Was there in plain sight.--Raven 2C (talk) 13:07, 21 August 2013 (PDT)
Is the table supposed to be updated after a certain amount of time passes? I've added production years to two vehicles, and they don't show up on the table.--Raven 2C (talk) 17:40, 21 August 2013 (PDT)
The semantic code need a little bit to update the data base, but you can click to the reload button right on the top of the page, all works.--Doneve (talk) 17:50, 21 August 2013 (PDT)
Right, I see now. Thanks.--Raven 2C (talk) 17:53, 21 August 2013 (PDT)
Oh i see your Axman update to the variants this don't work at this time in any Timetable page, but i hope i can fix this in next time.--Doneve (talk) 17:55, 21 August 2013 (PDT)

MUL URLs[edit]

Afternoon, Raven. Can you school me on something? What is the difference between the URL that was on the Titan (Dropship) page and the one you put in (besides the dropping of the /MUL)? I followed both and they both took me to (what appears to be) identical pages. As a test of the search function on MasterUnitList, I received a third URL [1]. Maybe you don't know, but I thought since you made the change, you might know a bit of the why. Thanks. --Revanche (talk|contribs) 13:41, 2 September 2013 (PDT)

Good afternoon to you, as well. In regards to this link matter, there shouldn't be anything different, as I only separated the "MUL" from the end of link. With this "MUL" the link would still work, but that text was for the text that followed. Apparently, when removing the ending text (vehicle name and model [or year, in this case]) from an MUL link, nothing is changed. Hope this helps.--Raven 2C (talk) 15:30, 2 September 2013 (PDT)
Thanks. --Revanche (talk|contribs) 16:54, 2 September 2013 (PDT)

Raven II[edit]

Hy, would you uploade the image in next time, or i uploade it.--Doneve (talk) 15:15, 15 September 2013 (PDT)

Hi Doneve. I've got the image.--Raven 2C (talk) 15:24, 15 September 2013 (PDT)

Comsys & T&T[edit]

Hello again, thanks for involving to add comsys and t&t systems, the focus is at this time on the comsys, i know there is a lot to do, but i bring the page up to work with semantic wiki stuff.--Doneve (talk) 15:47, 15 September 2013 (PDT)

I'm going to be a bit busy during the week, but I'll definitely try to add/fix anything I come across relating to this.--Raven 2C (talk) 15:51, 15 September 2013 (PDT)

All Purpose Award[edit]

Hey Raven 2C, I don't think that we've met yet, but I want to give you an award; here is an all purpose award All Purpose Award, 1st ribbon for your many solid grammatical edits (and some edits of my edits Wink.gif ) as of late. I like the work you're doing and truly hope you are in it for the long haul. I guess you can put the award on your user page yourself... -BobTheZombie (talk) 21:43, 15 September 2013 (PDT)

Hello there. Many thanks for this award! I can't promise I'll keep the work up for very long (school and work stuff in the way), but I'll definitely try to keep things going.--Raven 2C (talk) 15:23, 16 September 2013 (PDT)
Same here; I've been so busy recently and am glad just to get to work on Sarna again. -BobTheZombie (talk) 15:40, 16 September 2013 (PDT)


Hy Raven, when you add redirects please add it to the component name and not as you do on the targeting-tracking page, as example look to the Yinghuochong page, what i do with the comsys or better to the Nisos, i added at firt a link to the comsys then update the comsys page and set up the redirect to the name.--Doneve (talk) 17:57, 27 September 2013 (PDT)

Hello! Thanks for telling me; I will keep your method in mind Wink.gif. It sounds easier. The T&T page is different, though, since there are no components but first letters.--Raven 2C (talk) 18:14, 27 September 2013 (PDT)


Hi Raven, nice to see you again Smiley.gif I just dug out a copy of Record Sheets: 3055 UU, and the Linebacker-F configuration is on page 155. I don't know if this is significant, but the 3 tons of SRM ammo are all marked as (SRM 6 Narc) ammo by default. Hope that helps. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 10:44, 30 July 2014 (PDT)

Hi BM! Smiley.gif Thanks for the page number, and the ammo type. The strange thing, though, is that Solaris Skunk Werks shows regular SRM ammo for the SRM-6s, but I'll change that as I trust the actual copy than an indirect version. Thanks again!--Raven 2C (talk) 11:01, 30 July 2014 (PDT)
Not a problem - it's nice to be able to help out. I'd suggest that calculating the BV2 for the Linebacker-F manually would help clarify if the ammo cost has been included, but BV2 seems like a mix of government finance crossed with voodoo and numerology. DriveThruRPG seems to think I have the most up to date copy of the record sheets, so I'd definitely count it as a primary source, rather than SSW - no offence to SSW. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 11:06, 30 July 2014 (PDT)

Video Game Project[edit]

Hello again, I noticed you were interested in improving the video game coverage here, and wondered if you wanted to start out by helping me out with the stats of various games. Before that, I think we should figure out who has which games so we can decide who will do what. The first step would be to put down which ones you have here, then we can start making subpages of each of the games for equipment, mechs, vehicles, (possibly characters), etc. and adding info directly from what the games/manuals say. Finally, we can cite other web sites as references to cross check and make sure that they're right. How does that sound to you? We should also go through and make sure the layout and depth of all the game articles are consistent, as well as any info needed there.

p.s. If you know anyone else who'd have more games/also be willing to help then direct them to the "Project page" I made. Thanks! -BobTheZombie (talk) 14:12, 15 August 2014 (PDT)

Hey, Bob! I'll post on your page what I have available, and I was actually thinking of carrying out this work in roughly the same manner (the characters part might be a bit tricky, though). Also, there are a couple of mods for MC2 around, that could be considered for listing on your page.--Raven 2C (talk) 14:41, 15 August 2014 (PDT)
Yeah, we can wait with the characters, those equipment stats should be enough to do for now. Also, feel free to add any of those mods (MC2, MW4, etc.) to the list under their respective game with consistent formatting. Also, if you want to start adding info, go ahead; as for the page name, I think it goes like Video Game Name/Equipment, etc. I just started wondering if we should combine the originally separate "Mech" and "Vehicle" subpages into one "Unit" subpage, but we can wait with that. I'd say you might as well start whenever you want, and I'll likely start off doing MCG as you don't have that one. Be sure to use the game itself as the primary reference, then back it up with info from a web site. Also, I have a template you can use on my Sandbox page. Thanks for teaming up with me on this! -BobTheZombie (talk) 20:30, 15 August 2014 (PDT)
Another thought, just plan on adding a page for the main game (i.e. MW4, MW3, MC2, etc.) and we can include whether it was an expansion item in text under (or above) the table. That will save on a lot of redundancies. That also brings up the question of if explanatory text should go above or below the chart. -BobTheZombie (talk) 22:15, 15 August 2014 (PDT)
Alright, I'll try to get started on MC2 (OmnniTech mod). There really isn't a reference site for it, however, so I'll be using data directly from the game files. Also, I don't know if you've seen this yet, but there is a MechCommander Resource Section already made. Maybe you could merge it with the one you're working on?--Raven 2C (talk) 10:45, 16 August 2014 (PDT)
Okay, be sure to just have it all included in a MC2 Subpage and explain under each weapon which game has those stats, then make a second table (or third, etc. for all different variations of a weapon) if there are variations and explain that in text below. Also, yes, I noticed the existing info; I will be checking that with the in-game info as well as lots of moving stuff around and reorganizing. They only had the original (not the expansion), so I'll add that too. Thanks for pointing it out! -BobTheZombie (talk) 11:41, 16 August 2014 (PDT)
I have something working very well here, and you can use it as a template if you want. Keep trying things until it looks right and makes logical sense when you step back and look at it. Combining tables may help a lot; I'll need to tinker around and see if I can get the MCG one a little more streamlined. -BobTheZombie (talk) 14:29, 16 August 2014 (PDT)

MC2 Base Game Weapons Table[edit]

Sorting is cool, but what's more important to me is having that blank line between each weapon type. The sorting appears to break that. Any ideas? It doesn't have to be blank lines. It could also be a bolded border, or make the row background color a little different for each weapon type. I know how to change row background colors on an HTML table, but not using a wikitable. --Trifler (talk) 01:05, 5 October 2014 (PDT)

Hi Trifler! I'll see to this matter. I've done a bit of research and will start experimenting. Maybe there could be a border color for each weapon type? I'll give it a try... --Raven 2C (talk) 08:31, 5 October 2014 (PDT)
You can ask Mbear about how to do it because he knows all about tables. -BobTheZombie (talk) 10:29, 5 October 2014 (PDT)
Actually I think I just figured out how to set background colors for rows. Thanks though! --Trifler (talk) 00:05, 6 October 2014 (PDT)
Alright, cool! I was going to look for something a bit less repetitive - more modular - but that works just fine!--Raven 2C (talk) 15:44, 6 October 2014 (PDT)

More Video Game Discussion[edit]

I tried adding a line at the top of pages to more easily point people to the video game versions; it's under discussion here about what to do with those lines. Please chip in if you can. -BobTheZombie (talk) 19:19, 21 October 2014 (PDT)


Thanks. The article wasn't one my better efforts, i was little under time constraint at the time to finish it up. The Chain saw is diffidently in there. I goofed and forgot to add it to the equipment list in the infobox. Sorry that you had clean up my mess. -- Wrangler (talk) 17:30, 8 December 2014 (PST)

Hi Wrangler! It's all ok, honestly. In fact, it offered a bit of a refresher to making edits on the wiki! No need to be sorry; everyone makes errors! Smiley.gif --Raven 2C (talk) 20:04, 8 December 2014 (PST)

MechCommander 2 Stuff[edit]

Hi Raven. When you get a chance, I'd like a couple of people to please take a look at the stuff I added to the MechCommander 2 BattleMechs and Vehicles pages and let me know if they understand and agree with the text beneath the tables, etc. Some of it was difficult to explain and I'm not sure if readers will understand it as I intended it. Thanks. --Trifler (talk) 23:52, 8 December 2014 (PST)

Swarm LRMs[edit]

I noticed the section you put on the page, and perhaps it should be changed to "Notes" and talk about how it's included in the MC2 because I think that MC2 is the only game with that weapon in it. Just a thought.

P.S. Thank you very much for your continued help with this Video Game coverage; you don't know how much I appreciate it Smiley.gif -BobTheZombie (talk) 15:03, 10 July 2015 (PDT)

Hello! Yes, I suppose I will change as you suggest; again, that was a rather strange one, and there will be more when we get to other games (e.g. MW4 Mercs Wink.gif).
And it's been a pleasure working with you on the Game Coverage!--Raven 2C (talk) 15:16, 10 July 2015 (PDT)
MW4 is going to be a pain because there is MW4:Vengeance, MW4:Black Knight, MW4:Mercs, and Mek Tek. I think we should avoid that one for now, at least until we know how we're going to attack it...
Also, if you get done with your current MC2 work, feel free to follow after my template for adding Apocryphal Mech variants to their pages (example). I'm currently adding shortcuts for their weapons so I can more easily link to them as I add the specific Mech stats for MCG. I then add the specific Mech variant(s) to the Mech pages. -BobTheZombie (talk) 15:30, 10 July 2015 (PDT)
I'll try to help out with the Apocryphal work as soon as the MC2 documentation is complete; there still is Wolfman's mod to incorporate, too, btw (xP).--Raven 2C (talk) 15:36, 10 July 2015 (PDT)

Combined Proofreading Efforts[edit]

I came up with an idea on WarDog Mike's user talk page to go through and proofread/reformat the most visited pages, because they should be at the top of our priorities (mostly because they're the first impression people get of Sarna), but some of them are pretty shabby. I know you guys (and myself included) like to float around proofreading whatever page you stumble upon instead of being told which ones to do, but I think that you, me and the other active proofreaders need to go through this list and make sure that these pages are up to par on grammar, formatting, linkage, and all that jazz. I don't know what you are busy with project-wise or how much free time you have, but it's an idea. What do you think? -BobTheZombie (talk) 14:00, 30 November 2015 (PST)

Oh, yes, of course! I would definitely be interested in a project like that!--Raven 2C (talk) 19:11, 30 November 2015 (PST)
None of the other editors have responded yet, but I expect they will when they check the site again. Before we get the ball completely rolling, feel free to work on whatever you want in the meantime. Thanks for your enthusiasm! -BobTheZombie (talk) 22:11, 1 December 2015 (PST)
Sorry for my delay in getting back to you guys on this idea; I started a page here. Let's get started! -BobTheZombie (talk) 17:50, 28 December 2015 (PST)
Cool! Already on it, though my progress may be slow, especially at this time of the year... --Raven 2C (talk) 18:11, 28 December 2015 (PST)

Granularity and Focus[edit]

Hey R2C, I was just looking over your work on the MechWarrior: Living Legends article and have some concerns about the granularity and focus of the article. As strange as it sounds, I feel the article is too video game focused. I know the article is about a video game but this is not a video game wiki (I see you have your own dedicated video game wiki for MW:LL), this is a wiki dedicated to the BattleTech Universe. A prime example of what I mean is this:

"March 10th saw the release of a hotfix in the form of update 0.9.3, which reverted the network-related changes from 0.9.2 back to those of 0.9.1, fixing networking stability issues like warping."

To me this reads very much like it is taken from "patch notes" and I find it extremely questionable why this information would be of value to a casual reader on the BattleTech wiki.

If anything... As somebody who has never played MW:LL, I browsed the article and assume, based on it being originally built on the Doom 3 engine that the game is an First Person Shooter, but I am not actually sure.

Consider catering your sales pitch to the audience, Car sales people do not sell cars to little old grannies by talking about how fast a car is, that is how they get the petrol heads, they tell them how comfortable and ecenomical it is instead. Maybe more BattleTech and less video game.--Dmon (talk) 05:44, 30 July 2019 (EDT)

I've begun work on rewriting the sections to some extent. I do tend to get carried away, especially when there's nobody else working on the same thing, so thanks for letting me know.--Raven 2C (talk) 12:21, 30 July 2019 (EDT)

New art for MekTek stuff[edit]

Hey Raven 2C,

What is the source for the new artwork for the MekTek stuff? I didn't know any line art existed.--Dmon (talk) 21:48, 20 January 2020 (EST)

I pulled these off of MekTek's official Discord server ( They were posted by one of their former alphatesters, who in turn got them from one of the modellers from back in MekTek's heyday - who is no longer around. Supposedly, the modeller in question went by the Internet handle of Insidious, but I haven't been able to find much about him.--Raven 2C (talk) 00:39, 21 January 2020 (EST)
Thanks, they are pretty damn good.--Dmon (talk) 05:54, 21 January 2020 (EST)