User talk:Frabby

Archive 1 (created 04 January 2012)

Hunan

I'm glad that you found the wrong co-ordinates for Gotterdammerung. I was wondering if you could take a look in your atlas of the Inner Sphere for Hunan. It's placed on the map here to the northeast of New Avalon, but it's listed as being part of the Capellan confederation and as having been part of the Terran Hegemony. I think this must be wrong, but I have no way of checking it. If it's possible, could you take a look?

Follow up: The co-ordinates are listed as: (X: 333.04 Y: 333.04)

Thanks, --Workerbee 09:41, 30 May 2008 (CDT)

It is located in the triangle formed by New Aragon, St. Andre and Foochow, fairly exactly "north" of Zaurak and Kaifeng. The Atlas gives the coordinates as X: 73,04 Y: 96,76

Btw it is a known problem that the planet's X/Y coordinates are wrong. When the entries were auto-generated, the X-coordinate were erroneously put into both the X and Y slot. Nic is aware of this and it will hopefully be corrected in a future update. (See Category talk:Planets# Major Problem with Coords). Frabby 13:10, 30 May 2008 (CDT)

Thanks again. --Workerbee 15:24, 30 May 2008 (CDT)

Wouldn't that be (73.04, -96.76?), as Hunan is "south" of Terra? Since you've become the planetary coordinate guru, would you be able to check and make sure that the master file has as that data correct? I've already corrected Menkent, Blue Diamond, Gotterdammerung, and Hunan. Specifically, could you check out Sakhalin, Scituate, Cartago, and Chamdo? Thanks! --Scaletail 17:42, 1 June 2008 (CDT)

Yes, you are absolutely right: Hunan is at Y -96.76, sorry! Regarding the others:

• There are in fact two systems by the name of Sakhalin: One is a CapCon/Sarna Supremacy world at X: 62.33 Y: -142.92, the other a Lyran world at X: -24.25 Y: 153.09. The one on this wiki is the CapCon world, Sakhalin (LC) is missing as of yet. I had already noted it on the article some time ago (CC/SS world is spelled Sachalin in German material, but not in the original English sources).
• Scituate has X: 88.67 Y: -221.94 in my Atlas. The wiki apparently used a positive Y coord, as it is erroneously shown at approximately the same altitude as Mannedorf (which is Y: 228.98).
• Cartago placement seems to be correct (at X: 141.09 Y: -10.17)
• Chamdo placement also seems to be correct (at X: 10.43 Y: -153.61); however, in the immediate vicinity Yunnah seems to be slightly misplaced. The correct coordinates for Yunnah are X: 27.67 Y: -124.13. It should be halfway between Corey and Second Try but here it is erroneously shown on the same altitude as Tsinghai and Chamdo, at Y: -153.61.

Checking the big file? I am honored, but it is a daunting task. It will take time. (Add the fact that some names were actually translated into German, i.e. Second Try is named Zweitversuch (lit.: Second Try) in German. That one could be guessed, but it literally took me a year to figure that Rand is meant to be The Edge...

Oh, and then there is that issue with "missing planets". It grew to quite a collection on the CBT forum, and there are other cases. This wiki, for example, has Ferris (Outworld Alliance) but there seems to be another Ferris in the Oberon Confederation which as of yet is not mentioned here. Frabby 18:17, 1 June 2008 (CDT)

The file does have Sakhalin (LC) at the correct coordinates. It has Scituate at 88.67,221.94 so that is incorrect. Yunnah is a tad off at 27.64,-154.13. Both have been corrected. It is daunting, I agree... but something does need to be done about the planets that are not represented, especially the planets of the Marian Hegemony and Circinus Federation. I also feel like Clan planets should be added, as well as those in the Deep Periphery, but that's a whole separate issue. --Scaletail 18:46, 1 June 2008 (CDT)

Frabby, please review the discussion that developed after your opposition statement in regards to doing away with coordinates. The question needs to be settled as to from where these coordinates should reliably come. It's not as clear as simply providing printed canon coordinates.--Rev ^{(talk|contribs)} 14:56, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Review : Armed Forces of the Federated Commonwealth

I was reflecting on my work on Sarna up until now and asking myself : What would impress them at this point?
So - I redid the Armed Forces of the Federated Commonwealth.
I chose this one for several reasons : First, sentiment. I started following BTech with the Clan Invasion. Blood of Kerensky. TRO3050. To me, the FedCom was an appealing faction. They were the quintessential "good guys". The ones who might have a shot to stop the Clans if they got their acts together, as they did on Twycross. I NEVER liked the idea of the Lyran Alliance, or of an AFFC reduced back to House Davion. Second, none of the existing articles (AFFS/AFFC) reflected the actual UNITED AFFC. In my mind, that military had its own identity, if only temporarily. I feel, in fact, that identity is easier to pin down. Our articles on, say, the DCMS should reflect literally hundreds of years of history. A unit that was killed of centuries ago should be listed alongside one that was just formed in the latest publications. Since the AFFC had a beginning, middle and end, it was a story that could be told in its entirety.
Third, the greatest compliment Rev (or anyone) paid me for my Alpha Regiment article was that it set a standard for unit articles. I wanted to do the same for an entire military. The format I used is my submission for that new standard. I realize such things require discussion, and I don't want to step on anyone's toes. So I did this, to show what such an article COULD look like.
Fourth, I wanted to prove to myself that I could do this. I had a very clear idea of what a comprehensive AFFC article would look like. I feel I've met that, and applied the standards I set for myself.
So - that's all I have. Give it a look and tell me what you think. Thanks. ClanWolverine101 18:23, 26 December 2011 (PST)

Frabby - any thoughts? ClanWolverine101 11:47, 3 January 2012 (PST)

I haven't forgotten you, but I just haven't come round to read the article beyond a cursory review yet. (Workload, down with flu for 3 weeks now, the usual excuses... :) ). Frabby 01:11, 4 January 2012 (PST)

I understand. I wanted to get some admin thoughts as Neuling expressed some.... concerns about the format. Thanks! ClanWolverine101 06:01, 10 January 2012 (PST)

Award

Hy Frabby i give you this award for your great Phoenix (novel) article, please add yourself to your user page i don't want to make editis on there, i have also the book in german and love the Mad Jumpin' Jacks merc unit, please post more from our german sources, there is i a lot of missing on sarna, i appriciate your work.--Doneve 17:24, 5 January 2012 (PST)

Thanks! :) I initially didn't even realize that Phoenix was not an US novel (with the cover from Wolf Pack and all that), and only your article about the Jacks made me scratch my head. Then, when I re-worked the list of novels, I saw for the first time that this wasn't translated from anywhere. Frabby 01:11, 6 January 2012 (PST)

Response

I maked it short, the publications handle the regiments differently. Take alook at the Era report 3052 p.149, the Historical War of 3039 p.141 or Fourth Succession War Volume 1 p.45. The commands are treated differently and have differnt battle histories. They share an common history but have also their unique expierence gahtered. That with the name can be changed with no great deal when its bother you.Neuling 10:35, 14 January 2012 (PST)

Rev

Hey Frabby - any word on Rev? ClanWolverine101 09:39, 15 January 2012 (PST)

Was curious myself and sent him an email. To quote his answer, "Needs of the Navy," as the saying goes. Real world events are soaking up a lot more of my time than I'd prefer. It's partly conditional and partly drama, but I myself am ok, just a bit over-tasked. Please express my apologies and appreciation for the concern. I'll get back as soon as I can. Frabby 00:48, 16 January 2012 (PST)

Good to know. ClanWolverine101 06:57, 18 January 2012 (PST)

Update of Composition

Hello Frappy, I had update all forces from 3025 with the corresponding material from the different sources. When you and the others user had difficults with my work I apoligize to you and others. The next steps will be 3040/3050/3054/3059-3064/3079. Further more I will include the material about the equipment and the where the mercs were contracted. I hope you understand my work better. Neuling 11:25, 15 January 2012 (PST)

A major sticking point, I think, is that potential BTW users from places like the BattleTech forum come over to look up something at Sarna, and find an incomplete, poorly written or poorly referenced article that doesn't help them for whatever they were searching for. Unfinished articles are a problem because they look sloppy, and make the entire wiki appear worthless to such casual visitors.

I realize that you have a different work approach: You work on broad projects with very many articles involved, and work them down one slice at a time, step by step. Which means dozens or hundreds of articles are in the middle of a re-write at the same time.

A suggestion: Perhaps it would help if you include {{inuse}} or {{underconstruction}}/{{WIP}} in the articles while you're working on them, to make it clear that there is work-in-progress going on. Frabby 11:36, 15 January 2012 (PST)

Thanks for clearing up this point.--Doneve 12:05, 15 January 2012 (PST)

Concerns

Frabby - Do me a favor and type "Objectiv Raids" into the search box. You will find dozens if not hundreds of articles edited by Neuling. Not only did he not spell it correctly, he didn't use italics, and the formatting is sometimes off as well. What concerns me more is that Neuling was told his edits were problematic, he expressed disregard for our concerns and is apparently continuing right along. So now Doneve, myself, or someone else needs to go clean it up. What concerns me even more than all of this is that this is not isolated. Virtually every change Neuling makes either disregards our format, has multiple errors, blatantly plagiarizes the books and/or other sites, completely disregards any aesthetic, etc. I could go on. None of this is the main problem. The problem is he doesn't care. He is convinced that throwing poorly-written, poorly-edited and poorly-cited material at the wiki makes it better. Most of us understand that it doesn't. But he doesn't listen. He doesn't learn. So I am formally asking the admins to look into the situation, and decide what measures should be taken. Because Neuling is not making Sarna better right now. He's giving ammunition to those in the BT community who consider our work to be crap. ClanWolverine101 07:24, 18 January 2012 (PST)

I agree full with ClanWolverines statement, i talked so often to him, give him links to the policies etc. but he don't follow anything, oh please take a look on this talk on Dmon's talk page, thanks.--Doneve 07:43, 18 January 2012 (PST)

We've had this discussion with him before, if memory serves. --Mbear^(talk) 11:52, 18 January 2012 (PST)

Have I made you admins angry?

I read the messages above and read to my suprise that clanwolverine consider my work a mess as a hole. I agree with you that my work was in the past not so good but please regard my work now. I listen to you and change my work like the references. I talk to you more often (If I wrong about it correct me please). My writting style has im proved and please tell me which of my work is considered plagarism and I will take it offline immedatly. I have no idea how I can calm the situation. Please response. Tnx Neuling 09:30, 18 January 2012 (PST)

My offer stands to delete all my contributions with the goal to protect the site when necessary. I wrote the messages to several admins to get a clear view about my situation and to take consequenzes when needed.Neuling 11:24, 18 January 2012 (PST)

Neuling, your offer is a classy one. To answer your question, no you haven't made me (as an admin) angry.

I would say I'm disappointed in your work. You provided a great deal of material, but it has consistently been poorly formatted and in many cases it disregarded the existing standards. This in turn made more work for other contributors. Other contributions you've made have been restatements of existing content that really don't add much to the wiki (e.g. the list of variants you were putting together earlier). It's disappointing because I think you could offer a lot of material to the site if only you could get it formatted correctly. --Mbear^(talk) 11:59, 18 January 2012 (PST)

It will take some time to remove all my contributions from that site but then you have a clean site wihtou the concern to get accused from outsiders to plagaris. I will start tomorrow and hopefully at the end of the months my material remove is done. With best regard Neuling 12:01, 18 January 2012 (PST)

Neuling - I am not an admin. But these problems we are speaking of are not in the past. They are current. The "Objectiv Raids" issue was no older than yesterday. I appreciate you correcting most of those, but there it is. Also : What the heck is this "manufacturing places" section in the Griffin article? While I might agree that this information is relevant and viable, the format and aesthetic are both poor. You did not, as far as I can tell, start a discussion on properly presenting this material. You simply threw the information up there, and then took it for granted that other people would clean it up for you. That is why Doneve and I (and others) are frustrated. Please clean it up. Thank you. ClanWolverine101 12:21, 18 January 2012 (PST)

Your right made the changes yesterday, not in the past. It was never my goal to throw information at the site and led other do the cleaning or formating. Again I apolizye to you and as I wrote above I will remove the content which is considered not worthy for that side. All other user talk alot to me and I don't listen to your advices. As a person with respect for the work of the community will delete my contribution, but that will take time and in the end I will request that my account will be delete after the purification of the site. You ask what the thought was behind the manufacturing places. I will try a last example before I redonve my work. Neuling 12:33, 18 January 2012 (PST)

Neuling, this isn't against you personally. It is against poor articles. People aren't upset because you are editing/writing articles, they are upset because your writing/editing is substandard. It's a bit like splashing paint at a canvas to start off, and then expecting somebody else to paint a picture.

Therefore, this is not about removing your articles, but about improving your work.
A few serious questions for you:

• Why do you not check your spelling and grammar before you edit or upload an article? 1st
• Why do you not follow the established format in your editing? 2nd
• Why do you upload incomplete articles? 3rd
• Why do people feel you plagiarize information? 4th
• What can be done to alleviate the aforementioned problems? 5th

Frabby 13:33, 18 January 2012 (PST)

1st - That was a point which was not on my mind. But should I ever again write articles for english related site I will follow your thought and perhaps I can do it this time better.

2nd - I was to enthusiatic and aknowledge to late that I must follow the common formating to be accepted by the rest of the community.

3rd - My thought was to start an article and feed it over the time with material like I had it done with many mercanery related articles which will be delete over the next few days. Often I was the only editor how put valuable information ,in my thought, at the site and find it difficult to discuss every time the need for the artcle. For excample: I created the page Brions Legion - regiments multiple times and find it a short time later flaged for deletion or that the content should be merged with the brigade page.

4th - That is a point which I hard to understand for me, because for the academie overview I used only the availble information and put it in to new shape. I doens't copy the content from the Classic Battletech Companion. The tables showed only an overview. I think even that format was considered plagarism by some users.

5th - I had only one solution: remove all my contributions, leave the side for good and use the site only for future reference as guest. Neuling 13:55, 18 January 2012 (PST)

Please don't stop contributing on sarna, but follow some concerns, we are glad to have you here, but when you stard a huge project stard at first a talk, we help you to put your content in the right formating but you must work with us, also don't stop your efforts on the wiki.--Doneve 14:02, 18 January 2012 (PST)

I will regard my decision.Neuling 14:11, 18 January 2012 (PST)