Difference between revisions of "User talk:Frabby"
 
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== Warrior House(s) ==
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:''[[User talk:Frabby/Archive1|Archive 1]]'' (created 04 January 2012)
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:''[[User talk:Frabby/Archive2|Archive 2]]'' (created 01 January 2013)
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:''[[User talk:Frabby/Archive3|Archive 3]]'' (created 03 January 2014)
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:''[[User talk:Frabby/Archive4|Archive 4]]'' (created 04 January 2018)
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:''[[User talk:Frabby/Archive5|Archive 5]]'' (created 07 January 2021)
  
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Why did you move Warrior Houses to Warrior House? Shouldn't the article title be plural, since it discusses all of them? --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:13, 8 December 2007 (CST)
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Feel free to leave a message. :)
  
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:I guess that was my first impression, too (admittedly I did not consciously think about it). However, when mentioned in other articles you can expect single Warrior Houses to be adressed and the link would then be used in singular form, i.e. [ [Warrior House]] [ [Imarra]]. I noticed that when updating my [[Kaifeng]] article.
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As of 07 Jan 2021, I archived all content on my talk page because I reckon there were no pending issues.
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:Btw I considered making Warrior Houses a Category but thought it pointless for only 8 entries. In the future the individual Houses may have individual entries, but for now I felt there just is not enough material to warrant this. If and when that happens, a singular title for the main article will be even more important. I am not against moving the article to plural form but then a redirect from the singular would be neccessary imho. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 19:20, 8 December 2007 (CST)
 
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::No matter which way you do it, you'll have a redirect. It was just my impression that the plural was more accurate. Any help you could contribute to the "Warrior Houses" section I created at [[Capellan Confederation Armed Forces]] would also be appreciated. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:39, 8 December 2007 (CST)
 
  
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Thanks for cleaning up the various Warrior House Re-directs! [[User:Alkemita|Alkemita]] 09:40, 12 March 2009 (PDT)
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== The Nellus Academy Incident ==
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Hi Frabby,<br>
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Have you read ''[[The Nellus Academy Incident]]''? I've just finished reading it, and there are a few details in it that are making the canon-processing part of my brain itch a little. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 16:49, 9 January 2021 (EST)
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:Read it via BattleCorps; I also have the PoD standing on my shelf. Was going to produce a proper article, but since it ultimately seems like a side story of little relevance it got pushed back. I think I know what itches your brain though. :) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 01:33, 10 January 2021 (EST)
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::I'm going to keep reading the author's books - it was a good YA SF read - but I singled out three things that felt anachronistic to me: sending messages to and from Nestor via the jump point of somewhere near Gienah without an HPG, the presence of a COM-2Dr ''Commando'' which is a Jihad-era refit according to TRO-3085 in a novel set in 3067 (with it being a well-known enough variant for FWL cadets to recognise) and the ending section where the four-hundred thousand tonne ''Monolith'' class JumpShip was accompanied by WarShips "more than twice its mass" which at the time, can only be the ''Fylgia'' and ''Yggdrasil'', which seemed a bit of a stretch... I'd been thinking of trying to write up the summary for the webpage, but I'm not sure how to reconcile novels being the highest level of canon with these odd details. [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 03:13, 10 January 2021 (EST)
  
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== DropShip ==
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== Fortune Charlie ==
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Hi Frabby, I have not re-read the books, but from what you say, I nevertheless thing temporarily we should keep the information there and link to Operation CERBERUS once done, otherwise this piece of lore would be easily forgotten (at least for me).--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 07:21, 12 January 2021 (EST)
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:Cerberus and its sub-commands is covered in quite some depth in the novella ''[[A Splinter of Hope]]''. If and when I get around to doing an article on Cerberus, Task Force Styx and Fortune Charlie within it will likely feature rather prominently. But I firmly believe Fortune Charlie should only be a redirect to the proper operation that it was a small part of. Calling Fortune Charlie a unit is at least misleading if not outright false, and as such I felt I couldn't just leave it there. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 04:57, 13 January 2021 (EST)
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::I read it yesterday, and it is true what you say. As members of "Fortune Charlie", only one unit is spoken by name, the others are considered an assorted mix of units, like Jihad era conglomerate of small mercenary commands by Devlin Stone.
  
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Wanted to tell you how I think you've /really/improved the article. Exellent job! --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 10:39, 9 December 2007 (CST)
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::Once you have full article though, we should redirect this page to the section that specifically explains what "Fortune Charlie" represents.--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 05:22, 13 January 2021 (EST)
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:Thanks for the flowers. However, to be honest I think the article (and others) still require a lot of work on their references. I often fail to provide references myself because sometimes I do remember certain bits and pieces of information but cannot recall where they are from, and most of the time do not have the novels or sourcebooks anymore. So unfortunately, somebody else will have to do that part of the work... [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 17:09, 18 December 2007 (CST)
 
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::Agree. It'll happen in time. (What would we do with our lives if this encyclopedia were comple?) --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 01:18, 19 December 2007 (CST)
 
  
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== MechWarrior I ==
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==Emblematic Mech==
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Hello
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I finally take the time to write the [[Essay: Emblematic 'Mechs]] like you advise me to do almost a month ago (I had a lot of works before :(). I don't really feel like it's a true essay. I just extracted and centralized information dispersed in other articles, without putting thought or arguments. After, I have no idea if there is a better way to categorize it and you have far more knowledge on that than I. I would be very grateful if you can look at it and tell me what you think of it.
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[[User:Dermenore|Dermenore]] ([[User talk:Dermenore|talk]]) 16:48, 21 January 2021 (EST)
  
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Great job on the MW I page, Frabby! I really liked how detailed you made it, especially given all of the links to the other elements. Great job and it definitely brought some old memories to the surface for me. :) Thanks! [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]] 15:55, 29 January 2008 (CST)
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==Images for individual starships==
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Hiya, I wanted to ask you to refrain from putting generic ship class images into articles about individual vessels, like in the ''[[Full Moon]]'' article. There is a less than 1% chance that this image is actually showing the ''Full Moon'' out of the 106 ''Potemkin''s ever built. Please only use images that are confirmed, or at least reasonably likely, to depict the specific vessel in question. I feel using generic images is like putting a regular ''Centurion'' image into the infobox of the ''Yen-Lo-Wang'' article just because ''Yen-Lo-Wang'' is a ''Centurion''. If there is no picture for a specific starship then so be it. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 15:07, 31 January 2021 (EST)
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::Frappy, do you know the long ODDS of individual Warship picture to be created? Likelness is 1% it will ever be made. That's crazy Frabby. Unless something special is made, i think that sort policy is bit going too far. --[[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] ([[User talk:Wrangler|talk]]) 19:36, 4 February 2021 (EST)
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:::::I'm afraid this where we have to '''"Agree, to disagree"'''.  This a Warship, not a person with thinking mind or a unique one-off vessel. You can't capture EVERYTHING. I think your being too specific. This my personal view. Specially with BattleTech, Warships are least love units aside from ProtoMechs by some element of our fandom/gamedom.  Warship is a Warship unless it's a variant.  Frabby, the thing is that Full Moon, is a Clan 3057 version. Technical Readout: 3057 Revised spells it out that Clans changed their ships in this specific case.  Mk39 looks like old Vincent from 2750. That's been established. Yet there now 2 kinds of McKennas. Completely different, like much of 2750 ships such as with Aegis specially, but again. 3057 Revised  spell out which one is which when it happened. I think your going too far with this. Mjolnir for instance looks same as the sister ship.  There no individual pictures of now destroyed second ship. As again, i think your being too picky.  I say again, "Agree, to disagree". Your one main editors now here, i'm just some body who helps out since i can't complete in editing and my work isn't as close to people who those who here daily. What you say goes, i personally thing your going too far on dead end subject. I will do as you say, i think your in wrong this. I don't want be banned. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] ([[User talk:Wrangler|talk]]) 15:44, 6 February 2021 (EST)
  
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== Planets and their coordinates ==
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==Developer Insights==
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Thanks for the help on the planets. It's a bit of work and you're doing a great job adding in the extra data! [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]] 20:13, 26 October 2007 (CDT)
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I read a [https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/recognition-guide-ilclan-discussion-part-2/msg1698319/#msg1698319 post on the official forum] that had great insight into the changes to the Tukayyid "C" 'Mech record sheets. I feel like that would be great information to archive here in some way, but I'm not sure how. A link in the 'Mech article notes might work, but the BT forum are far from permanent. Any ideas or opinions?--[[User:Cache|Cache]] ([[User talk:Cache|talk]]) 14:32, 18 February 2021 (EST)
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:Glad it's appreciated! But I have a number of points: Some of the source material is ambigous Canon, how do we treat that? (For example, data from roleplaying scenarios like the stuff I have on Suk II) Also, the X/Y coordinates of systems are obviously wrong. Are these based on the 3031 Atlas of the Inner Sphere (which I have here, in German)? If so I could start to correct the coordinates. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 05:09, 27 October 2007 (CDT)
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:It's probably gonna be important when trying to explain that, and why, the "C" configurations were retconned to what was now established. As a first thought, perhaps copy that post into an Essay type article and link to that in the 'Mech articles whenever a "C" variant is discussed.
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::I've noted to [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] that the coordinates were incorrect. The entries were autogenerated and obviously there was an error when it posted the entries. I believe the info came from the Inner Sphere Cartography Service maps (which are correct except for two planets) and '''that''' data was based on the 1987/88 House Books. I think the plan is that he'll correct it using some script when he has time to deal with it since it's every planet that's wrong. To your other point, I would tend to think that if the information was published by FASA/WizKids/FanPro it's canon, even if it's from a scenario pack (like the Black Widows Company book). I guess it's up to you as to whether you're willing to go through all of the planets and fix the coordinates - it seems a Herculean task and would probably be easier to wait for Nic to do it automagically. :) [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]] 12:10, 27 October 2007 (CDT)
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:In the past I used to archive such information on the pertinent talk page; but this is different as it is not exactly a ruling, and also much longer. So I think it needs to be treated differently. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 14:46, 18 February 2021 (EST)
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::::Hi Frabby, sorry to jump in and resurrect a old conversation. I noticed there a missing planet that is alive.  Von Strang's World, was a world that Clan Jade Falcon currently holds, its on Periphery border of their Occuaptional Zone.  It was invaded 3071 by [[Clan Ice Hellion]], during their little attempt to hijack Falcon's worlds. Was the planet not original published somewhere, that its was left out of Sarna's planet list? Its slight north of both [[Botany Bay]] & [[Last Chance]]. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 19:10, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
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::I like the "essay" idea. I have PM'd the author for permission to copy.--[[User:Cache|Cache]] ([[User talk:Cache|talk]]) 19:51, 18 February 2021 (EST)
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:::::Yeah, BTW was set up with an obsolete version of the [http://www.isatlas.teamspam.net/ Teamspam IS Atlas]. A number of worlds are misplaced and lots are missing altogether. Von Strang's World is actually one of the better known periphery worlds even though it's missing here as of yet. Sooner or later we'll have to redo the maps anyways. In the meantime, I have this project over at CBT forum seeking [http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=34841.0 Unnamed, lost or misnamed planets].  [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 19:40, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
 
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::::::::Would be out of the question to setup a place holder page for the planet? I believe there enough basic information on it justify a planet page for it, with exception of actual numbers on where it is.  I actually thinking Coordinates in future publication is likely a thing of the past. Way I see the Writers are trying streamline things and avoid having be errant for them, don't think we'll get new Coordinates or planet data like there were in the old books. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 11:16, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 
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:::::::::By all means, go ahead! I plan to add each and every one of those unmapped, lost or misnamed planets to BTW eventually, provided that nobody else does it first, but I really don't claim them for myself and help is appreciated. As for the coordiantes, there are maps in canonical sources from which you can guesstimate the coordinates with reasonable accuracy (which is the case for most periphery systems anyways); it is suggested that if you estimate the coordinates, this should be indicated in a footnote when presenting the data in the article. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 01:01, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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== Hunan ==
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==Sam Lewis in Wolves on the Border==
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Hey Frabby,
  
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I'm glad that you found the wrong co-ordinates for Gotterdammerung. I was wondering if you could take a look in your atlas of the Inner Sphere for [[Hunan]]. It's placed on the map here to the northeast of New Avalon, but it's listed as being part of the Capellan confederation and as having been part of the Terran Hegemony. I think this must be wrong, but I have no way of checking it. If it's possible, could you take a look?
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I have just done a search in my ebook copy of [[Wolves on the Border]] for [[Sam Lewis (Scientist)|Sam Lewis]]. I can't find any mention of him in the book.--[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] ([[User talk:Dmon|talk]]) 09:18, 4 March 2021 (EST)
  
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Follow up: The co-ordinates are listed as: (X: 333.04 Y: 333.04)
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:Checked my print books, and ayup, you're right: It's one Prof. McGuffin (!!) who was mentioned along Dr. Banzai for the Jump Stabilizer. Seems I plainly misremembered. The reference to Professor-General Sam Lewis was in [[Warrior: Coupe]] instead, according to his article here. Might as well have looked there first. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 11:00, 4 March 2021 (EST)
  
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Thanks, --[[User:Workerbee|Workerbee]] 09:41, 30 May 2008 (CDT)
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== Image Categories ==
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:It is located in the triangle formed by [[New Aragon]], [[St. Andre]] and [[Foochow]], fairly exactly "north" of [[Zaurak]] and [[Kaifeng]]. The Atlas gives the coordinates as X: 73,04 Y: 96,76
 
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:Btw it is a known problem that the planet's X/Y coordinates are wrong. When the entries were auto-generated, the X-coordinate were erroneously put into both the X and Y slot. Nic is aware of this and it will hopefully be corrected in a future update. (See [[Category talk:Planets# Major Problem with Coords]]). [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 13:10, 30 May 2008 (CDT)
 
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Thanks again. --[[User:Workerbee|Workerbee]] 15:24, 30 May 2008 (CDT)
 
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::Wouldn't that be (73.04, '''-'''96.76?), as Hunan is "south" of Terra? Since you've become the planetary coordinate guru, would you be able to check and make sure that the [http://cf.sarna.net/data/planets/iscs/planall.zip master file] has as that data correct? I've already corrected Menkent, Blue Diamond, Gotterdammerung, and Hunan. Specifically, could you check out [[Sakhalin]], [[Scituate]], [[Cartago]], and [[Chamdo]]? Thanks! --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 17:42, 1 June 2008 (CDT)
 
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Yes, you are absolutely right: Hunan is at Y -96.76, sorry! Regarding the others:
 
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*There are in fact two systems by the name of Sakhalin: One is a CapCon/Sarna Supremacy world at X: 62.33 Y: -142.92, the other a Lyran world at X: -24.25 Y: 153.09. The one on this wiki is the CapCon world, Sakhalin (LC) is missing as of yet. I had already noted it on the article some time ago (CC/SS world is spelled Sachalin in German material, but not in the original English sources).
 
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*Scituate has X: 88.67 Y: -221.94 in my Atlas. The wiki apparently used a positive Y coord, as it is erroneously shown at approximately the same altitude as Mannedorf (which is Y: 228.98).
 
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*Cartago placement seems to be correct (at X: 141.09 Y: -10.17)
 
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*Chamdo placement also seems to be correct (at X: 10.43 Y: -153.61); however, in the immediate vicinity [[Yunnah]] seems to be slightly misplaced. The correct coordinates for Yunnah are X: 27.67 Y: -124.13. It ''should'' be halfway between [[Corey]] and [[Second Try]] but here it is erroneously shown on the same altitude as [[Tsinghai]] and Chamdo, at Y: -153.61.
 
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Checking the big file? I am honored, but it is a daunting task. It will take time. (Add the fact that some names were actually ''translated'' into German, i.e. ''Second Try'' is named ''Zweitversuch'' (lit.: Second Try) in German. That one could be guessed, but it literally took me a year to figure that ''Rand'' is meant to be ''The Edge''...
 
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Oh, and then there is that issue with "missing planets". It grew to quite a collection on the CBT forum, and there are other cases. This wiki, for example, has [[Ferris]] (Outworld Alliance) but there seems to be another Ferris in the Oberon Confederation which as of yet is not mentioned here. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 18:17, 1 June 2008 (CDT)
 
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::The file does have Sakhalin (LC) at the correct coordinates. It has Scituate at 88.67,221.94 so that is incorrect. Yunnah is a tad off at 27.64,-154.13. Both have been corrected. It is daunting, I agree... but something does need to be done about the planets that are not represented, especially the planets of the Marian Hegemony and Circinus Federation. I also feel like Clan planets should be added, as well as those in the Deep Periphery, but that's a whole separate issue. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 18:46, 1 June 2008 (CDT)
 
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== Shrapnel ==
 
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A bit late, but good work on the article. I was surprised to see an early product with such an extensive article. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 10:35, 4 July 2008 (CDT)
 
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:Again, thanks - it is nice to see that my work is appreciated. I intend to eventually create pages for all the BT novels I have and provide a plot synopsis, timeframe, list of characters, list of major events for each. The intention is to give a full (yet reasonably brief) content rundown for each product on this wikia. But that is a huge undertaking, and currently queued behind Canonicity debate/policy (something I hope will be hammered out between Scaletail and myself), and stellar cartography. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 01:25, 5 July 2008 (CDT)
 
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==Charakter==
 
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Gotta ask you: is the mis-spelling an affection of your's or just somehow a common mistake you make? I've seen you spell it both ways here, but now came across the k-spelling on CBT, as well. Just curious.
 
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Also, I was waiting on your input on the Canon talk page, before I move forward on a section-by-section discussion/development. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:15, 17 August 2008 (CDT)
 
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:I have to say common mistake. "Charakter" is German. Being a GM, I use (and write) the word so often that the German spelling sometimes creeps through even when I write in English. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 03:11, 18 August 2008 (CDT)
 
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::Good to know. Your English is impeccable, if that is the only evidence of it being a second language creeping in. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 08:38, 18 August 2008 (CDT)
 
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== Cyclops ==
 
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Good find, on the errata. Especially since it was an old thread. I went ahead and made a reference for the link you provided, to prevent and calls of doubt in the future. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:29, 25 August 2008 (CDT)
 
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== E-mail ==
 
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I just sent you an e-mail thru the BTW system. Please review when you get the opportunity. Thanks.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 16:13, 30 August 2008 (CDT)
 
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== Hunter ==
 
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Thanks for fixing all those links. I meant to get around to it, but you beat me! --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 13:15, 13 September 2008 (CDT)
 
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== Unsuited Content ==
 
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Hi Frabby. Would you please take a look at [[Seraphin]] and [[Seraphin Mechwarrior]]? I think they're articles better suited for the [http://battletechfanon.wikia.com/wiki/BattleTech_Fanon_Wiki Fanon Wiki]. Thanks for the help. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 21:29, 30 November 2008 (PST)
 
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:Technically, this kind of fanon articles is allowed on Sarna.net, provided that it is marked as fanon/non-canon. This goes back to the origins of this wiki, which started out as a fansite. I will, however, add the appropriate Non-Canon flags to the articles. Thanks for spotting. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 06:37, 1 December 2008 (PST)
 
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::Should we start encouraging members to move fanon to the Fanon Wiki? --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 06:59, 1 December 2008 (PST)
 
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:::Personally, yes. But the Policy to allow fanon stands, and I feel uncomfortable with changing this all by myself. Consider that this was originally a fan-site for Neveron, and only later evolved into a true BT Wikia. I also thought that providing a dedicated fanon wikia should channel fanon away from this wikia. Anyways, I suggest you try to drum up support from [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] and especially [[User:Nicjansma|NicJansma]]. They are the ones to decide on this matter as far as I am concerned. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 07:30, 1 December 2008 (PST)
 
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== List of minor mercenary units ==
 
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:Yeoman's work dude!  [[User:Communibus locis|Locis]] 06:49, 3 December 2008 (PST)
 
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== Lock the Main Page ==
 
  
 
Hi Frabby,
 
Hi Frabby,
  
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The [[Main Page]] was hit by vandalism again. Since it's the public face of the site, I really believe it should be locked to all but administrators. There's really no reason anyone else should edit it anyway. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 06:56, 8 January 2009 (PST)
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Do you know how the system maps are generated? All those images don't have a category and this makes the [https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Special:UncategorizedFiles Uncategorized files] not very useful as from the first 1000 thousand maybe 95% images as these ones. And I do not want to put them in a category as this might affect the "program" that generates them. Do you know who can help? Maybe when the image is generated it can be put in a category like "System Images". I'm asking more people, but do you have any idea?--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 04:22, 8 March 2021 (EST)
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:Makes sense. I had anticipated it would be locked anyways, so I'm going to do it now. What worries me a bit is that these spambots actually created user accounts. Will bring this up with the site owner, [[User:Nicjansma|Nic Jansma]]. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 07:36, 8 January 2009 (PST)
 
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::I wasn't there when it happened, but I approve this request, as it is really important to not see our favorite site spammed with viagra offers. --[[User:FIVE-one|FIVE-one]] 07:37, 8 January 2009 (PST)
 
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:Update: The front page is already protected (against edits by non-registered users I presume). If I have an admin button to lock it beyond that then I have not found it. Nic should be able to help. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 07:41, 8 January 2009 (PST)
 
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::You'll need someone with "sysop" access. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 12:15, 8 January 2009 (PST)
 
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==WikiProject Military Commands==
 
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I created a new [[BattleTechWiki:Project Military Commands|WikiProject]] to encompass all military commands. Since you've done a lot of work in the past with them, please come over and sign up so that we can improve the coverage of all units. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 14:16, 14 February 2009 (PST)
 
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:I have deliberately avoided signing into any specific Projects, and stick to my own to-do list instead. Well, sort of... Of course that does not mean I don't approve! It's just that I feel there is no point in me pinning my name to any particular projects. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 14:50, 16 February 2009 (PST)
 
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==Thanks for the Help!==
 
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Hi Frabby, thanks for helping me with my problem.
 
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I'm very new to wikipedia use. I'm uncertain on how to use the other command such as move.
 
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I suspected that i won't been able re-name article i had created for security purposes.
 
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Thanks again for helping me and opening my eyes to the move function.
 
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-- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 14:06, 24 March 2009 (PDT)
 
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==Category Creation==
 
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Hello Frabby, I'm uncertain whom would be person to speak with regarding this.
 
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I've added few vehicles to the Sarna.net which aren't new in some respects.
 
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I've added the [[Ibex RV]] civilian vehicle from the [[Handbook: House Marik]].
 
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This is a civilian vehicle, is it possible to add a Civilian Vehicles category?
 
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There are other civilian vehicles listed in the handbooks as well as Vehicle Annex.
 
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Also could category of Naval Vessel Support Vehicles be added? It is a geniune battletech vehicle listing. I've added two support vehicle which happen to fall under sub-directory of Naval Support Support Vessel.
 
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Thank you for your time! -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 16:37, 24 March 2009 (PDT)
 
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:To the best of my knowledge, categories are auto-created when articles (at least two) are sorted into a given category. You can then go to the category page and edit in some explanatory text if you want. I think this is how I created the [[:Category:Alien species]]. If you run into problems, let me know.
 
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:As for Naval Vessels, there are so few designs that I would put all canonical sea-going ships into one category; suggest you name it Blue Water Naval Vehicles (but really, if you can find a better name then use that instead!). [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 13:34, 25 March 2009 (PDT)
 
−
 
 
−
::Wet naval vessels already have a couple of categories reserved for them already, based upon the chassis, as is consistent with other combat vehicles. Check out the [[BattleTechWiki:Combat Vehicle Portal|Combat Vehicle Portal]] for them. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 16:55, 25 March 2009 (PDT)
 
−
:::Support Vehicles offical classification of Battletech.  Their own class.  Naval Support Vehicle is sub-class.  My only thing since their not used for regular play, then they won't be listed as general combat vehicles. Hense why I'm hesitant to giving them classification "combat vehicle".  Naval listing are only for the 100 tons and below stuff, not the massive support vehicles that can get into the 100k range.  I'll list Argo and the Luftenberg as combatvehicles if you want me too but i think its wrong category for them. Can we least have the Civilian Vehicle Category thou?  == [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 17:22, 26 March 2009 (PDT)
 
−
::::I started a discussion at [[Category talk:Support Vehicles]] --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 17:50, 26 March 2009 (PDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== BattleCorps ==
 
−
 
 
−
I saw your post of the BC forums. Just so you're aware, I did start and wrote a couple of articles: [[Destiny's Call]], [[Tears of Blood]], & [[Isolation's Weight]]. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 17:09, 25 March 2009 (PDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== Clan Nova Cat Characters category request ==
 
−
 
 
−
Hi Frabby, is possible for the creation for category for Clan Nova Cat characters?  There has been number of exclusive character profiles created for that clan, but there is no category listed yet.  Can it be created? I am little fuzzy on what process is to have category created or to whom i need speak to.  Thank you! -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 07:47, 9 May 2009 (PDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== Unholy Union ==
 
−
 
 
−
Good job, Frabby, with that article on the BC story. Well-developed article, provides the facts with out removing the impetus for reading the story oneself. I'm really glad to see this type of article making its way here. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 07:22, 31 May 2009 (PDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== BattleCorps II ==
 
−
 
 
−
I just created a new article called [[Echoes In the Void]], using the How To template for BC stories, which includes the category for BC stories. However, when I went to visit the category, I saw it had been deleted by you. Is there a reason we are not to categorize BC stories? If you could point me to that discussion, if it exists, I'd appreciate it. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 08:30, 18 June 2009 (PDT)
 
−
:The category is essentially still there. "BattleCorps" was deleted because we have expanded its scope and re-created it as [[:Category:BattleCorps publications]], to make it clearer that it also includes other publications with important information, like scenarios or the essay from Ardath Mayhar. I was not aware of this How To template or I would have updated it accordingly.
 
−
:(I have just looked for the template you mentioned to update it but couldn't find it...) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 10:20, 18 June 2009 (PDT)
 
−
::I was talking about [[Help:CreateBattleCorpsStoryArticle|this one]], which I've gone ahead and updated. Thanks for the quick reply. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 11:38, 18 June 2009 (PDT)
 
−
 
 
−
== Poke-poke ==
 
−
 
 
−
*[[User_talk:Nicjansma#Other_extension_suggestions]]: comment requested. :p --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 20:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
== Thanks for Covering My Backside ==
 
−
 
 
−
...on [http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,54067.msg1317154.html#msg1317154 this]. Sometimes I forget that not everyone was awake for reading comprehension lessons back in high school. Not only did you catch this, but you explained it much more clearly than I had. I can only imagine how the rumor would have spread out of control in you hadn't stepped in as quickly as you did. (Makes me think of another ribbon award idea...) --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:16, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
==MM-1 MiningMech==
 
−
Hi Frabby, I know have article regaring MM-1 MiningMech, but i suggest to rename it from MiningMech to MM-1 MiningMech since its name conflicts with Dark Age MiningMech.  Since someone going to this article, well be confused on which miningMech is what.  I plan add the MiningMech to the list of article.  However, its going be called MiningMech (Dark Age) since the conflict with your article. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 21:31, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
:When I created that article I followed the naming scheme for 'Mech articles, but you are right: MiningMech denotes a type of 'Mechs more than an individual model. MM-1 MiningMech is like naming a BattleMech the BM-1 BattleMech. I'll move the article as per your suggestion and will create a disambiguation page of some sorts under "MiningMech". [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 11:59, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
==Canon Article Question==
 
−
Hi Frabby, question.  I wrote some months ago regarding to subject of [[Canon Rumor]].  Which is another thing they write about.  I'm no where near writer you are, do you wish me to remove the article? SOme of newer fiction in the sources book have this un-offical explaination.  I'm not sure if your Canon article covers it.  Since i'm using crude wording to describe the subject. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 12:29, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 
−
:Thanks for the information. The Canon Rumour article seems sound, and I see no reason to remove it. It covers essentially the same subject that I included in the Canon article under "optional canon" though. Is "Canon Rumour" an expression that was ever officially used? If so then the "Optional Canon" section needs to be renamed accordingly. I can see two ways to proceed, either the Canon Rumour article is merged into Canon (with a redirect put in its place) or simply a "see also" link from the Canon article. Opinions? [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 13:36, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 
−
::Only reason why i've used the "Canon Rumor", its been used by various individuals in describing certain articles since creation of the Interstellar Players source books.  Though, its be described as being rumors that are canon.  Meaning, in the game itself urban legends, anything described by being in game rumors are considered Rumor, that are canon. Thus my usage of Canon Rumor.  I'm not so hot on using the Optional Canon as description. Since canon rumors are all over the Jihad Hot Spots books and their not necessary optional.  I'd think having them merged into one article with your Canon would make sense. I believe name "Canon Rumor" should be retained. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 20:27, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
== Question about timeline ==
 
−
 
 
−
Hy I adding in last time some stuff to the timeline and yearlist....I think the organisation structure of the timeline and yearlist sites can be updated...in right date times(i hope it is the right word) and give the site a structure!?!? What are you think or the other members....????
 
−
 
 
−
I want to do this work....but it is a lot to do...!!
 
−
 
 
−
[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] 12:14, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
:I do agree that the timeline could be improved, yes. And even more yes, it is a huge task. Personally, I have no idea how it could be done, nor have been active on the timeline, so I suggest you raise your point on [[Talk:Timeline]]. That should bring the people who are also interested in the timeline to comment and help you. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 14:44, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
:: Thanks for the answer hopefully I becom some support!!!!
 
−
Greetings [[User:Doneve|Doneve]] 15:49, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
== Template colors ==
 
−
 
 
−
Hey, Frabby: I will say I like some of the source-specific templates (Nevron, games, etc.), but dislike the color schemes. In my perspective, using the Sarna gold for non-warnings is best. Templates -when used sparingly- will bring the eye directly to themselves. The other colors clash, in my opinion, with the general site layout. And I definitely feel that the red (of fanon) should only be reserved for personal talk-page warnings of the lvl 3 & 4 variety. My recommendation is to set all templates back to either Sarna gold or white. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:54, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
:I honestly did not realize there was any Sarna coloring scheme, and even now that you pointed it out to me my feeling is that the Canonicity issue is more important, and should be color-coded. I was going by the old traffic-light scheme: Red for "Bad" aka Non-canon & Fanon (the latter is actually a tad bit "redder"), Yellow for Apocrypha and Green for other (since blue would make the links disappear). But I really do not have a strong opinion on this and could live with it if there is a consensus that the templates should be de-colored. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 14:00, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
::To be honest, there is no policy (or even written discussion) about this, that I know of; its just in my early design of the site, I went with what Nic had established (via presence) and designed the warning templates based on my 'pedia experience. As always, I'm open-minded regarding changing my POV, but the hurdle is the clash of the colors. What value do you see in color coding by non-canon source? (As an aside, I've seen the newly revealed policy, but haven't commented because nothing has leapt out as counter to the original intent of the policy. I'm working from the assumption that you've cleaned up the policy to address what we've agreed upon in the past, so haven't yet taken a critical look. I will give you feedback one way or the other.) --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 14:25, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
==Fan Stories being posted==
 
−
Hi Frabby,  I've spotted someone posting lengthy fan-stories on the boards.  Litterly going from Chapter to Chapter. Is that something allowed? It has seperate article pages per chapters. Its pretty lengthy. [http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Soumi_Warders]. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 19:28, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 
−
:Yep, it's allowed (see our [[Policy:Notability]] and [[Policy:Canon]]). The stories are appropriately marked as Fanon. I would prefer pure Fanon content to exclusively go on the BT Fanon Wiki instead, but owing to BTW's origin as a fansite, Fanon is expressly allowed here. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 07:22, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
==Lost Worlds==
 
−
Hi Frabby, hope things are well with you.  I remember you were on a thread on Classic Battletech forums regarding lost worlds.  I recently wrote up profile for the [[Raventhir's Iron Hand]] which shows unit had fought on world of Cranston in 2580 which earn them actual name of Magestry Guard (older name). This from the old Field Manual: Periphery. Anyways, Cranston appears to be not listed on Sarna.net.  Lookin at Handbook: Major Periphery States, i've noticed that the world indeed shows up maps for 2571 and then in 2750 as part of Free World League.  Do you have a project or someone have project where were going add these dead worlds to the Sarna? -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 01:50, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 
−
:I have a big thread ongoing over at CBT.com ([http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=34841.0 Unmapped, lost or misnamed systems]). Within this wiki, I always wanted to include that data once I get round to finally working on systems/planets proper. But I have not yet started anything. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 10:30, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
== Awards ==
 
−
Frabby, I took the liberty of installing an awards board on your main page. Please place it where it best fits your design. Happy New Year! --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 05:00, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:Thanks! :) And a Happy New Year to you as well! [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 15:41, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
== Carsphairn‎‎  ==
 
−
Would you please take a look [[Talk:Carsphairn|here]]? Thnks. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:00, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:Looks like Ebakunin beat me to it. Although the altered spelling is interesting to note. Will do some research if the DA spelling is in error, and include the result in my list on the CBT forum. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 15:41, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
== Objective Raids: 3067 ==
 
−
 
 
−
Frabby,
 
−
1) I feel like the new tag you applied to the [[Objective Raids: 3067|article]] is nearly the opposite of what it should say. It does ''provide'' (maybe not 'contribute') canonical, but ''is not'' official. That and your comment regarding meta-sources leads me to think maybe we should discuss setting up such a tag.
 
−
 
 
−
2) Curious: why did you delete the address to the original release venue, CBT forums?
 
−
 
 
−
3) Also, didn't mean to step on your idea to create the article, but I was inspired by MadCap's confusion on how to upload a file and thought best to get it going. You made good edits to it. Thanks.  --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 15:59, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
:1) Yeah, maybe the NonCanonProduct tag needs some tweaking. It is essentially supposed to say "You cannot cite this source as a canonical reference". The bit about official crept in because the first article I did where the tag was actually used was [[Critter-TEK]] - which does technically fall under official products, but was never even intended to be canonical. Wheter or not it "provides" canonical data is irrelevant imho, because if it does that then it must have taken that canonical data from somewhere and that somewhere is the real source.
 
−
:2) As for the adress reference, I have included links to the [[CBT Forums]] quite a lot recently but haven't yet come round to actually write that article. I felt it would be appropriate to add that redlink in that case. Links to external sites should generally be restricted to sectinos like "See also" and "References".
 
−
:3) Knowing myself, I would not have created the article for a couple of months down the line. It means nothing to me who created a given article, and I certainly would not want people to refrain from adding content because they wait for me. It could be a long wait... :) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 18:03, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
::1) Got it. Putting it that way ("...it must have taken that canonical data from somewhere and that somewhere is the real source.") I can't help but agree. I think the new tag represents that position well.
 
−
::2) Got it. Agree with you that it should be in the below sections. I'm tempted to do just that, to help facilitate the latest revision always being present here.
 
−
::3) Got it. Glad to see I didn't step on any toes. I also thought about responding to BH-whatever's comment about you hosting Sarna, but thought it would look snarky coming from me. Thanks, man. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:16, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
== Founder's Honorable Mention Award ==
 
−
Hi Frabby!  I wanted to award you a Founder's Honorable Mention Award for all of your contributions over the last year.  It's great to have you part of the community! [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 06:39, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:Much appreciated. Thanks Nic! [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 22:56, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
== Short stories ==
 
−
I'm trying to come up with an appropriate name for a category of short stories from canon publications other than BattleCorps, such as those in rulebooks and similar titles. Your [[:Category:BattleCorps publications]] is a good name, for it defines something specific. How do I grab a name for those opening short stories? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 15:14, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:Incidentially, I've been mulling this problem over as well. This is my suggestion: As long as a given piece of fiction is only present within another product, it should be covered in that product's article (give it its own section). I suppose prominent stories should get redirects. Only when the short story gets published separately it should get a separate article.
 
−
:BattleCorps has begun to release those short stories separate from their original products, which turns them into individual BC publications and then they should get their own article as such. (Like Life in the big city from the CityTech rulebook). [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 15:20, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::Okay, I can work with that. Might want to write a policy up regarding articles on short stories. I'll support it. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 16:25, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 
−
Update on this issue: I have meanwhile begun to create individual articles for each and every short story, and linked to the stories from their sources (see [[Shrapnel]] for an example). [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 22:57, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
 
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−
== XJ90‎ ==
 
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−
You can always give him a second [[BattleTechWiki:Awards/CasualEdit_Award|Casual Edit]] ribbon. The gallery in that link shows the system is designed to grow! --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 22:26, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:Hey, I took the liberty of correcting the ribbon display for XJ90‎. When someone receives a 2nd (or later) award, they replace the existing ribbon with the more senior one. How's that shin? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 02:26, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 
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−
==Field Manual Terran Hegemony==
 
−
Hy Frabby i found the Field Manual: Terran Hegemony, is it a fancreation or a meta-source.[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] 01:31, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 
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−
:When in doubt, treat it as a fan creation; remember, meta-sources are only those which compile canonical information with some reliability and omit fan-made content either completely or have it clearly marked. Can you provide a link? [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 08:08, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::Hy, it is a pdf with 252pages by John Luther, and looks very pretty, i became it from a friend, i talk to him about the link, but i think you find it in the CBT forum.[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] 13:30, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 
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−
 
 
−
== Infantry weapons and Battletechnology Mag stuff ==
 
−
Hi, I have a lot of information about Infantry weapons and equipment from different sources. How could I integrate this material in Sarna.net
 
−
. Tnx [[User:Neuling|Neuling]] 23:20, 5 March 2010 (UTC) neuling
 
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−
:Anything that has to do with BattleTech warrants inclusion on the wiki, as per our [[:Policy:Notability]]. '''[[:Policy:Be bold|Be Bold]]''' and use whatever format you feel is appropriate for your article.
 
−
:As a personal opinion, I wouldn't create an individual article for each and every handgun that may ever have been mentioned in a BattleTech source though. Rather, I'd suggest group them together in summary articles/list articles.
 
−
:[[:User:PerkinsC]] started something similar some time ago. He created a number of articles on infantry weapons such as "[[Light Machine Gun (infantry weapon)]]", but at a quick glance it seems they are without content so far and flagged for deletion review. You're very welcome to work on these if they fit your idea. He also created the [[:Category:Ballistic Weapons]] where you can find [[Help:CreateInfantryWeaponArticle]]; similar stuff seems to exist for other infantry weapon systems. Hope that helps.  [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 10:00, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 
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−
==Name of master category==
 
−
Frabby, IRT [[Template talk:Fanon]], what about 'Fan Submissions' for the name of the master category? Fan fiction seems to me to imply stories...and only stories. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 10:59, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:Oops, sorry, didn't see your entry on the talk page. Answered there. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 12:16, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
 
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−
==Structure of brigade articles and army overall==
 
−
Hi, I think all major brigades need an overwork. I find the structure of the field manual is good an I will change every brigade to this structure. Also the army articles need a revision to the better. Tell me, thats my thinkingwrong or right? [[User:Neuling|Neuling]] 10:55, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:I'd say it is opinion more than logic here. Personally, I am actually quite unhappy with the state of affairs. I dislike the approach that was taken (create an article of every single regiment). Some of these articles are too short, some are way too overloaded with trivial information. Really, what's the point of creating separate articles for each and every regiment of [[McCarron's Armored Cavalry]] when there is next to nothing special about the individual regiments? The entire formation (arguable a brigade) could and should be covered in one single article. Conversely, sometimes even individual companies warrant an article (like [[Sorenson's Sabres]] or [[The Fox's Teeth]]). It's really a question of gut feeling.
 
−
:One particularly problematic issue is TOEs and personnel rosters. These aren't set in stone, they change on a weekly bases (sometimes literally). We have seen it on the mercenary unit articles that it is an ardous task to follow the changes here as they wax and wane over time, especially considering how many units have virtual centuries of history to be covered.
 
−
:My own vision is perhaps best exemplified in how the [[Warrior House]]s are now depicted: There is an article about the Warrior Houses as a concept, with a general description of the concept and links with brief description for each individual Warrior House; details do not belong into the master article and are instead found in the individual Houses' articles. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 11:19, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
== Translate please ==
 
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−
Morning, Frabby. Would you please talk with Doneve about [[User_talk:Revanche#Image_Galley|this]] post on my talk page? I'm not sure what he is asking for and since he doesn't provide links (and he makes so many contributions), I really don't have anyway of determining it on my own. Thank you. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 11:05, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
== Crescent Moon ==
 
−
 
 
−
That seems to be the perfect solution, thanks for clearing things up! [[User:RagTag|RagTag]] 11:32, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 
−
 
 
−
== Vandal Cop award ==
 
−
 
 
−
Thanks for reverting and blocking the repeat spammer when he struck [[Essay: BattleMech Technology‎‎]].
 
−
:[[File:VC.jpg|Vandal Cop Award, 1st ribbon]]
 
−
It appears he assumed a registered user would be able to get by undetected, but wasn't able to grasp that we have a strong corp of vandal cops. Well, at least he completed three captchas before he could do any harm; more effort on his part.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 11:19, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 
  
−
== References ==
+
== Adding Design Programs in Left Menu ==
−
Frabby, I need your help finding something. A few months ago you persuaded me to change my referencing style. This was after I wrote the [[Help:References]] page. I want to update that page with the 'proper' method (as well as example citations of existing sources), but cannot find our conversation. IIRC, Scaletail took part in it, as well. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 02:37, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:Sorry, couldn't find it either. (Though I dimly remembered something...) You do realize that an advanced search for "pp." on article and user talk pages brings up your talk archive and some other stuff where pp. vs. pg. came up; you put a link to something from wikipedia there somewhere. But beyond that, sorry, can't help. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 17:16, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::That was helpful; thanks. The "pp." was a great search term afterall and, while I knew about the material in the 2010 archive, the same search showed me the WP you mentioned. I think the discussion I remember was in [[BattleTechWiki talk:Project Biographies]], which you didn't take part, but I did mention you. Again, thanks. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 17:29, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 
  
−
==Material from Tactical Handbook==
+
Do you think is worth adding a direct link the the design softwares? The pages I've been adding: [[:Category:Battletech Design Software]].--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 05:12, 22 March 2021 (EDT)
−
Hi, i read the Tactical Handbook again and discover that in this book are many equipment fluff with manufactur and availability. Where can i post it and in which form as overview (table) or in the single articles.... [[User:Neuling|Neuling]] 23:15, 14 April 2010 (UTC) Tnx
 
−
:Most individual pieces of equipment have their own article, and that is where the information belongs. If an article for a given item doesn't exist yet, create it yourself. :)
 
−
:As for tables, I don't like the idea of creating tables with game data, because that kind of stuff sells books - I fear it might be illegal to put it online, and not covered under the ''fair use'' rule. I even recently suggested we delete articles consisting of such tables (see [[Talk:CBT Tables]]). [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 00:38, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 
  
−
== Providing sources ==
+
== Board Game ==
  
−
[[Policy_Talk:Images#Providing_sources|Nudge]] --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 18:54, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
+
Afternoon, Frabby. IRT [[Board Game]], I'm not sure what to make of this page. It seems to attract the attention of multiple Editors, but...what is it saying? I'm thinking of categorizing it as either Lists or Miscellaneous, but...I just don't get it. Advise, please. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 12:38, 9 May 2021 (EDT)
 +
:It's funny that you raise this just now. I've had to take a short wikibreak of sorts and taking that step back made me realize there's a laundry list of admin-level issues on Sarna that needs to be adressed, or at least is becoming a serious problem from my viewpoint. Presentation, project coordination, category structure, article structures, newbie help,  you name it. Artifact articles like this one you mentioned are a small facet of one of the major chapters on this wish list. I was going to discuss this with Nic and the active admins shortly and I'm extremely happy to have you back so expect mail shortly (couple of days probably). :) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 13:03, 9 May 2021 (EDT)
  
−
== Karma ==
+
::Roger that, muh-man. I'll hold off on any action until in receipt of your treatise. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:20, 9 May 2021 (EDT)
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Great work with that article. Did you write is as you were reading the novel or go back and actually research that entire plot? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 18:09, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 
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:Both, in a way. I read the novel to get a general impression, though it was one of the best BT books I ever read, and decided I needed to get an article up on Sarna. Then I re-read it, writing the summary along the text. I feel it always helps when you have read the story before, and know what's important. Still, the plot summary in the article is too long for my taste, but compared to the book it's actually too short; I left out a number of minor scenes for brevity's sake. Ah well. Fair article overall, a tad bit too long, but it does do the job of giving the english-speaking audience an impression of how the story goes. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 19:02, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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== Cooperation ==
+
== Brawlers ==
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I have a huge project in the near future. I ask you and any other user how is interested for a cooperation effort. My goal is a overall update of the entire unit section. When a user take for example take the DCMS and a other the AFFC it would make it easier for us all. What is your  opinion about it. Let me know it and I will discuss the task. [[User:Neuling|Neuling]] 19:16, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 
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:to but into somebody else's page.. but kinda like this? [[BattleTechWiki:Project Military Commands]] --[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] 19:31, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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== Battle Value worksheet ==
+
Afternoon, Frabby. Would you please take a look at my attempt to update the [[Brawler]] article? I'm specifically asking for a review of the general completeness of the role's description and the (hopefully) fair-use presentation of the ''Alpha Strike'' description. If/when it is acceptable, I'm intending to update/build the remaining unit role articles, including for the ASFs. Thanks. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 15:26, 15 May 2021 (EDT)
 +
:Unfortunately I've never played Alpha Strike, never even completely read the AS rulebook. I'm totally in the dark about that game system. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 03:07, 18 June 2021 (EDT)
  
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Frabby, please have a look at the template: [[User:Mbear/BVWorksheet]]. Comments welcome.--[[User:Mbear|Mbear]] 14:12, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
+
== Longbow Note ==
 +
Hey Frabby. In the note you left on the Longbow article, it may be worth mentioning that Ral Partha produced the miniature using the Unseen image, [[Ral_Partha_Catalogs#Ral_Partha_Catalog_1988|in their catalog starting in 1988]], which coincides with the appearances in ''Merc's Handbook'' and ''The Star League''. --[[User:Cache|Cache]] ([[User talk:Cache|talk]]) 11:01, 21 August 2021 (EDT)
 +
:That's indeed worth noting. I don't have that catalogue, and didn't know that (I'm really not very much into miniatures). Can you expand the Notes to include this info? [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 11:07, 21 August 2021 (EDT)
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::I gave it a shot. Hopefully I got the point across while maintaining the flow.--[[User:Cache|Cache]] ([[User talk:Cache|talk]]) 11:59, 21 August 2021 (EDT)
 +
:::Pretty good, thank you. I take it "sku" is part of the product name? In an ideal world we would have an article link here, but miniatures are the stepchild of Sarna and I am in no position to improve the situation. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 12:16, 21 August 2021 (EDT)
 +
::::SKU stands for Stock Keeping Unit--the manufacturers stock number for the product. It is listed in the catalog article, there just isn't an easy way to directly link to its exact location. Setting individual anchors is a bit of a task.--[[User:Cache|Cache]] ([[User talk:Cache|talk]]) 12:27, 21 August 2021 (EDT)
  
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== Harvest Trials ==
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==Four minor points==
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I will wrote abour the Harvest Trials / Wars. What is better. Making a break down of every clan how looses and how gaines troops or to descrip the unit an from were it came... [[User:Neuling|Neuling]] 19:50, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
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:''(Moved from user page to user talk page)''
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:What would a BTW user expect when he followed a link to "Harvest Trials"? I reckon that article should provide a broad overview first of the wars in general, and then very brief overviews for each individual Clan. Because of the sheer scope of the issue, details probably belong into sub-articles so that the articled doesn't get overly long - remember, it's about the entire topic and not all minute details. Just a suggestion, but perhaps it would be good to put the details into each Clan's history page, and link to that article/subsection from the Harvest Trials article like this:
+
I can't get the hang of pinging on this wiki, so I came to your page. It's nice to have feedback because my efforts aren't perfect.
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::<nowiki>Over the course of the Harvest Trials, Clan Sitting Duck lost the Bazillus Omega facility on Disneyland and their entire holdings on Nowhere to Clan Rabid Vermin, but seized the Neverland holdings from Clan Fish-in-a-Barrel in return. </nowiki>
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* Re: AeroSpace Fighter, I've been using the [[Policy:BattleTech Style Guide]] connected to the Manual of Style, which requires CamelCase. I don't think I have a copy of the BattleCorps MOS.
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::<nowiki>:''For details, see [[Clan Sitting Duck#History]] (section on Harvest Trials)'' </nowiki>
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* Re: Mad Jumpin Jacks, it was inconsistent within the article so I went with what's at the [[Phoenix (Mercenary Command)]] page the unit name redirects to. I don't read German and I don't know if I have a PDF or doc of the novel to check against so I didn't even try to consult the original.
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:[[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 21:41, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
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* Re: Hyphen use in co-founder. I've been going with Fowler ("hyphens are regrettable necessities, and to be done without when they reasonably may") due in part to the over(mis)use of hyphens by CGL. I'm using a dictionary aggregator and the Chicago Manual of Style for hyphenation but I'm bound to get a few wrong.
 +
* Re: Correcting quotations. I try to consult the original text before correcting quotes but I know I miss some; I'm glad to have my mistakes corrected. I've actually had to correct a few quotes in other articles to match what's in the original product text.
 +
It would have been helpful if FASA/FanPro/CGL had at least tried to be consistent in its own products... [[User:Madness Divine|Madness Divine]] ([[User talk:Madness Divine|talk]])
  
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==Planet Infobox==
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==PseudoTech==
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Hy Revanche, can I update the Planet Infobox, like the Planetary Data posts on diverse planet pages, then we have all the data in the infobox!I make a test in the sandbox, can you take a look?--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] 13:03, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
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Hey Frabby.  Saw that you removed Moratorium from [[PseudoTech: Arcade Operations]]. Please note this is ''not'' a Free product. It costs $2.99 in the CGL store and DriveThruRPG.--[[User:Talvin|Talvin]] ([[User talk:Talvin|talk]]) 11:59, 7 April 2022 (EDT)
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:Hi, Doneve. Two things:
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:D'oh. Me sloppy. Thanks for pointing out! Changing back. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 12:03, 7 April 2022 (EDT)
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:1 - I'm reluctant to 'authorize' changes to infoboxes, because its clear that there should be a consensus regarding these issues and I am an Editor, just like you.  
 
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:2 - I '''do''' support it, as I feel that the planet articles ''really'' need some formalization, such as BattleMechs have enjoyed.
 
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:I recommend you bring it up at [[BattleTechWiki_talk:Project_Planets]], and bring [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] into the discussion. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:58, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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::Ok, thats fine. I expanded the sand... infobox with a refernce example, where the data comes like the heading reference --Planetar Data....--. [[User:Doneve|Doneve]] 14:04, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
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== Some German edition issues ==
  
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:::Hy Frabby, i copyed this discussion from Revanches talk page to you, i write to Rev. about the Planet infobox.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] 08:28, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
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Frabby.  I encountered two issues related to German editions of certain novels.  The issues are posted in [[Talk:List of German BattleTech novels]] and [[Talk:Shadows of War]].  Please feel free to share any insights that may help resolve those. Thanks. --[[User:Dude RB|Dude RB]] ([[User talk:Dude RB|talk]]) 22:23, 15 June 2022 (EDT)
  
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::::Apologies for the late reply. I was touring the past weekend with my wife's band and came back with a serious cold and a big office workload carryover, so I'm not much use currently. That said, I do have plans for a Project:Systems and will be back on the topic eventually. (I seem to recall I wrote stuff about my vision, but couldn't find it at a quick glance.) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 14:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
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:Just gonna drop this here, as sorta related: [[Im Schatten der Bestie]] had some notes added to the Canonicity section about Mech names and mistranslations. I just moved it down to a Notes section and otherwise left it be, but if you get a chance, please take a look?  Thanks!--[[User:Talvin|Talvin]] ([[User talk:Talvin|talk]]) 18:01, 17 June 2022 (EDT)
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:::::Hy, ok i notize this, if you need help when you start your project talk to me.Greetings --[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] 16:25, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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== Dechan Fraser... ==
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== Intermedia X-Pulse Laser ==
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Uhm, Frabby? Dechan Fraser was never the Bounty Hunter. Michi Noketsuna was, with Dechan riding shotgun. I took out the line you put in there. Just letting you know. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]] 16:20, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 
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:D'oh! Thanks for clearing this up. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 18:35, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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== Sick ==
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I just saw that you reverted [[Intermedia X-Pulse Laser]] from where I had marked it for deletion.  I am rather confused: it is one among a pile of similar redirects that used to point to Fanon, has nothing linking to it, and I can't see why it would need to stay?--[[User:Talvin|Talvin]] ([[User talk:Talvin|talk]]) 08:22, 21 June 2022 (EDT)
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:I did? Damn. Presumably another case of me hitting the stupid "rollback" button when I was really only trying to scroll down the recent changes on my not-so-smart phone. I hate that button! And this time I didn't even realize I had hit it. Re-deleted. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 12:58, 21 June 2022 (EDT)
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::I have never tried to use this site on anything smaller than an iPad.  Somebody rolled my userpage back a couple months, once. :D Thanks for fixing.--[[User:Talvin|Talvin]] ([[User talk:Talvin|talk]]) 13:00, 21 June 2022 (EDT)
  
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Hey, can you handle some of the emergent issues? I'd appreciate it. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 12:06, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
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== Astronomical Features  ==
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:Get well soon! [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 15:11, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 
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::Thanks, man. I'm back now. Came down with a fever right when I was preparing for my family to leave for overseas and I had to take command of my unit for a few weeks. Got my new CO in last Friday, might be catching up on delayed work this next week and should be home well before 9pm most nights, so will be on here more often. Thanks for looking out for my talk page. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:02, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 
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:::Glad to see you're back! :) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 21:18, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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== Notable pilots: Possible answer ==
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Frabby,  you raised a [[Category talk:Astronomical Features|point]] about the definition of [[:Category:Astronomical Features]] back in 2020.  I know that idea may have grown dormant since then, but can you elabaorate (in [[Category talk:Astronomical Features]]) on the issues you see/recall from then and whether they still need attention now?  --[[User:Dude RB|Dude RB]] ([[User talk:Dude RB|talk]]) 00:03, 5 July 2022 (EDT)
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:Thanks for the ping. I’ve replied over on the discussion page. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 12:18, 5 July 2022 (EDT)
  
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Please review: [[BattleTechWiki_talk:Project_BattleMechs#Notable_Pilots_Sample_page]]. Thanks!--[[User:Mbear|Mbear]] 14:17, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
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== Japanese Editions ==
  
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== Creating category for German & UK Publications of Battletech ==
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I seem to recall you collect foreign editions. I have done more detective work: [[Category_talk:Japanese_Editions]] --[[User:Talvin|Talvin]] ([[User talk:Talvin|talk]]) 13:25, 7 July 2022 (EDT)
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Hi Frabby, i know this maybe odd suggestion.  Is there any thought to creating a for listings for UK & German publications? It maybe give distinction for readers using Sarna.net. I wanted ask you since your one leading folks on internation publications for Battletech on Sarna from what i've read. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 23:56, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 
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:I don't see any reason why this should not be done. The difficult question is: What makes a German publication? I could not be bothered to list each and every product that FanPro translated into German, and would restrict the list to original foreign-language products. The problem is that there should be no original foreign-language products in the first place, but a small handful do exist. The only truly original foreign-language products I know (besides the German-only novels) are [[Ronin!]] and [[Die Welt des 31. Jahrhunderts]]; then there are compilations like the [[Atlas der Inneren Sphäre]] or Mächte der Inneren Sphäre (article not yet written). I have treated these like any other apocryphal (official but not canonical) product and added them to the [[List of BattleTech products]] accordingly.
 
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:[[FanPro]] did far more than simply translate material - they frequently added new content in the process and many scenario books have errata or slight expansions. I have treated such cases through mentioning these official-but-not-canonical expansions in a separate section on the original article for the product in question (see [[Solaris VII: The Game World#Arena-Planet Solaris VII]] or [[Technical Readout: 3026#Notes]] for examples - and I just saw that I need to expand the Hardware-Handbuch 3031 entry a fair bit...).
 
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:I am not aware of any (original) UK publications except those by the MFUK, and they are arguably not even official. So not worth a list of their own imho, except perhaps as part of the [[MFUK]] article. And that has yet to be written by someone who actually knows something about the MFUK (i.e., not me). [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 06:22, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 
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:::My intentions is to bring to note of some products that were translated to german may be so changed that they run into ''official-but-not-canonical expansions'' problem.  With so many people adding things from across the world, i'm concern that they maybe adding things to existing articles that maybe from such alter sources.  There was discussion regarding the Jade Falcon's Khan Irregulars which were known by differient name in the German translations. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 11:02, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 
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::::It is certainly worthwile, even desireable, to ferret out such alterations/expansions. For canonicity purposes on this wiki, however, keep in mind that German translations are not Canon - only the (original) english text meets the criteria. Because of this, I tend to work exclusively from original english sources and only buy translated German items when I can get them very cheap on Ebay.. It is sometimes fun to compare them with the originals. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 11:17, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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==Creating single entries for larger merc formations==
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== ä ==
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Hy, I created  all larger merc formation at brigade level with singel entries, because all regiments have a colorful history. Only article isn't enough to cover all of the facts. All sourcebooks break the formations down at regimental level. I think this is best suited.
 
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The Kell Hounds (2 regiments), Blue Star Irregulars (2 regiments) and all other large formation should cover. I think I make a good job with the coverage of these units. Ask the other admin about their opinions and let me know it. The former articles were insufficient. [[User:Neuling|Neuling]] 12:17, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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==Block==
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[[Glenmora (Individual Trutzburg-class äDropShip)]]--[[User:Talvin|Talvin]] ([[User talk:Talvin|talk]]) 08:31, 11 July 2022 (EDT)
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Hy Frabby please block EmmaWatson..., thanks.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] 15:57, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
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:Oops. Fixed. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 16:35, 11 July 2022 (EDT)
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:Zapp! :) Also deleted the picture uploads. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 15:59, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
 
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::Thanks, we dont need this ;).--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] 15:59, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
 
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Hy Frabby please block [[User:Lester984016|Lester984016]], he makes some spame links, and violance, thanks.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] 22:41, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
 
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:Zapp! [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 22:57, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
 
  
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== Redirecting tips ==
+
== 25th Anniversary Introductory Box Set and BattleTech Einsteigerbox ==
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Thanks a ton!!! That's really useful to know, there are a few things I'm planning to write that would involve redirects. [[User:Porty1119|Porty1119]]
 
  
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== Question Regarding ==
+
Hello Frabby.  I saw your removal of the German edition information from [[25th Anniversary Introductory Box Set]] and the note on the edit.  I am curious to get your vantage point on this.  While the 2012 ''BattleTech Einsteigerbox'' did not adopt a German version of the title, it does appears that its cover and the components are a port over of those in the 25th Anniversary Introductory Box Set, using the component list from [https://web.archive.org/web/20160813065958/http://www.ulisses-spiele.de/sortiment/tabletop/battletech/produkte/36/battletech-einsteigerbox/ the archived product page from Ulisses-Spiele].) Some of the contained booklets have page counts off by four, but the descriptions of the maps and the 'Mechs, including the premium 'Mechs, seem to align. Even in the lower right hand corner of the cover  [[:File:BattleTech Einsteigerbox-cover.jpg]] there is a note that reads '25 jahriges jubilaum kampfkollosse des 4 jahrtausends' (trans. 25th anniversary of the battle colossi of the 4th millennium) so it also seems to be acknowledging the 25th anniversary of BattleTech. It would seem proper to classify this as a German version of the ''25th Anniversary Introductory Box Set'' even though the title is vastly different. Is there something that I am missing or overlooking (whether in terms of interpretation or historical context)?  An error on my part is quite possible, especially as German is not a language I am fluent in.  I would be curious to get a proper understanding one way or the other.  --[[User:Dude RB|Dude RB]] ([[User talk:Dude RB|talk]]) 19:47, 9 January 2023 (EST)
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Hi Frabby, question: I was going write up something based on the Jihad - a Soldier's Tale.  Are you working up to write that up? I don't want take away if you have this in the works. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 22:10, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
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:Need to research this a little more. The Anniversary Box and subsequent Introduction Box are very similar, that makes it difficult to decide which (if indeed any particular one) of them the German box is based on. It can't really be both though. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 11:51, 14 January 2023 (EST)
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:No, not really. I was just browsing the thread when I came across the [[Vrikk]] and decided that I should write this article before I forgot about it again, especially as there was so little information that it would be quick to write. I planned to create the article for [[Jihad - a Soldier's Tale]] eventually because it's fully canonical, but haven't really started so go right ahead. Btw when writing, keep in mind that the protagonist was revealed as the man who became Spectre Precentor [[Berith]]. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 10:33, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
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::One thing to note is that there are (at least) two different versions of the ''BattleTech Einsteigerbox''.  One released in 2012. And one released in 2014. Ulisses-Spielle calls the latter ''BattleTech Einsteigerbox (Neuauflage)''.  See [https://web.archive.org/web/20160813065958/http://www.ulisses-spiele.de/sortiment/tabletop/battletech/produkte/36/battletech-einsteigerbox/ BattleTech Einsteigerbox] and [https://web.archive.org/web/20140910183509/http://www.ulisses-spiele.de/produkte/954/battletech-einsteigerbox-neuauflage/ BattleTech Einsteigerbox (Neuauflage)] for a comparison.  In fact at the bottom of the web-listing for the older one is a link to the entry for the newer one. --[[User:Dude RB|Dude RB]] ([[User talk:Dude RB|talk]]) 12:59, 14 January 2023 (EST)
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::Thats why i wanted to write up the article regarding the story. I wrote up the Berith and its would be easier to have the story on hand. Since it was free, i was going to put it on a word file and upload it to the site later. Part of me wishes they had written more in his diary/journal. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 11:57, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
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After looking into this I fully agree with you and have re-inserted the German edition parts into the 25th Anniversary Box article. Thanks for calling me out on this mistake. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 05:55, 19 January 2023 (EST)
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:::Pretty much the same plan I had. :) Though I strongly recommend that you don't simply copy the thread without asking, both as a matter of courtesy and because it is a copyrighted work even when freely available on the net. I have a lot of freebie downloads from CBT.com on my hard disk that I haven't uploaded to Sarna (yet), such as the Lawyers, Guns & Money scenario. As far as I understood NicJansma, file upload on the wiki should only be done for pictures that are needed for articles. Files for download should go to the download section. Therefore I plan to contact him about revamping the download section eventually, and and adding a lot of stuff like [[Objective Raids: 3067]], the LinkNet files, some free download stuff, and also Jihad - a Soldier's Tale. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 14:18, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
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:Thanks for the update and the independent confirmation. It is definitely good to have another set of eyes to help confirm or correct. --[[User:Dude RB|Dude RB]] ([[User talk:Dude RB|talk]]) 19:20, 20 January 2023 (EST)
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::::Thats fine. I was going to ask Rome about that. I was under the impression that articles/informationt hat was posted freely on the Forums were consister open. I do feel it would be best to ask before i did that. Please let me know what NicJansma says about the free canon Battletech files/stories. For the moment the Jihad - A Soldier's story is just referring article with link to forums. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 15:09, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 
  
−
==Deletion of PDF Files==
+
==Disambig (cont.)==
−
Hi Frab, looks like Nicjansma has gone to delete some files we were using. I realize this is his site. This mass deletion making me think twice working on a site like this. Example, i had uploaded [[Republic of the Sphere]] maps which were PDF forms since that all existed as. He outright deleted them saying they were unused.  I know he has to make space, but still unnerves me were loosing stuff we worked on. Has he setup policy on how is going to be? No PDFs, no pictures unless it somehow link already to the article? I'm not sure how to find the CDN files if wherever their being stored. Please forgive me i'm fairly upset at the moment. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 12:45, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
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Hi Frabby, I'm not sure if you read my last reply in my talk page's Disambig discussion. Have you given any more thought to matter? --[[User:Csdavis715|Csdavis715]] ([[User talk:Csdavis715|talk]]) 09:08, 22 September 2023 (EDT)
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:No Panic. Everything was saved, nothing was deleted permanently. What I don't understand is what purpose non-image files serve in article links? Stuff like documents for download really belong into the download section, and the wiki should have an article ''about'' this file if it is noteworthy enough. Case in point: [[Objective Raids: 3067]] is a BTW article; the actual file for download now sits in the download section where most people would go look for it anyways, plus a link to the download can easily be included into the article. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 19:20, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
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:Just checking in. As of this moment we are at 1,252 disambig pages and still climbing. I've finished going through all Clan characters and bloodnames currently in the database and have moved on to systems. Deadfire has helped me eliminate several hundred "structural" redirects to improve the search and autocomplete functions. Continuing to add disambig/seeother notes on non-Clan pages as previously discussed. Do you feel things are working and progressing to your satisfaction? [[User:Csdavis715|Csdavis715]] ([[User talk:Csdavis715|talk]]) 07:23, 9 November 2023 (EST)
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::Some of the PDFs were free maps produced by WizKids and CGL, shows the Republic of Sphere. Some of the files are dossiers, which show case character not yet profiled by CGL.  They have information of mercenary, splinter groups, and so forth. They are important.  Recently they came out with PDF of LinkNet and other online content from the old WizKids website. They are considered Canon by CGL.  Some of the articles here, refer to them. Which why i'm having slight panic when Nic started whole saling removing them. My concern now with articles is wiki-links that were connected to them.  Nic restored the maps of the Republic of the Sphere, however there others may have linked to the articles. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 19:42, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
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::You're putting much more work into this than I ever did, honestly. I'm totally fine with it. In individual cases I might disagree regarding the disambig/seeother tag at the page header but if and when I run across something and actually find the time to lean into it, I'll ping you. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 07:52, 9 November 2023 (EST)
 +
:::Appreciate it. If you feel the wording of the tag can be improved, of course please make whatever adjustments you feel is appropriate. Sometimes it's not always clear and I'm just doing a quick scan of the article for key words to put in. [[User:Csdavis715|Csdavis715]] ([[User talk:Csdavis715|talk]]) 08:06, 9 November 2023 (EST)
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::Following up on something. Going through the DropShips and WarShips looking for same-named ships, I didn't realize just how many ships were needlessly disambiguated. I didn't count but there's maybe 100? My feelings on this have changed since you first mentioned it last August. Some of them make sense and understandable to leave as is, but if given the opportunity one day I'd be happy to move 90% of them back to their appropriate, simplified links, along with text replacements to rid the wiki of redirects that we don't need, decluttering the search function a little. [[User:Csdavis715|Csdavis715]] ([[User talk:Csdavis715|talk]]) 01:07, 4 March 2024 (EST)
 +
:Oh, you're really preaching to the choir here. Apparently, someone got the notion that all ship names should be disambiguated to "name (class, type)". That wasn't my idea and I never liked it. You are very welcome to purge unneccessary redirects and disambiguations! A word of caution though, there are some edge cases where a ship was renamed and one of its earlier names may be a redirect that requires disambiguation (we do try to track previous names by redirecting these names to the vessel's latest established name). [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 01:37, 4 March 2024 (EST)
 +
::When the time comes, I'll be thorough during my checks. :) [[User:Csdavis715|Csdavis715]] ([[User talk:Csdavis715|talk]]) 02:21, 4 March 2024 (EST)

Latest revision as of 03:21, 4 March 2024

Archive 1 (created 04 January 2012)
Archive 2 (created 01 January 2013)
Archive 3 (created 03 January 2014)
Archive 4 (created 04 January 2018)
Archive 5 (created 07 January 2021)

Feel free to leave a message. :)

As of 07 Jan 2021, I archived all content on my talk page because I reckon there were no pending issues.

The Nellus Academy Incident[edit]

Hi Frabby,
Have you read The Nellus Academy Incident? I've just finished reading it, and there are a few details in it that are making the canon-processing part of my brain itch a little. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 16:49, 9 January 2021 (EST)

Read it via BattleCorps; I also have the PoD standing on my shelf. Was going to produce a proper article, but since it ultimately seems like a side story of little relevance it got pushed back. I think I know what itches your brain though. :) Frabby (talk) 01:33, 10 January 2021 (EST)
I'm going to keep reading the author's books - it was a good YA SF read - but I singled out three things that felt anachronistic to me: sending messages to and from Nestor via the jump point of somewhere near Gienah without an HPG, the presence of a COM-2Dr Commando which is a Jihad-era refit according to TRO-3085 in a novel set in 3067 (with it being a well-known enough variant for FWL cadets to recognise) and the ending section where the four-hundred thousand tonne Monolith class JumpShip was accompanied by WarShips "more than twice its mass" which at the time, can only be the Fylgia and Yggdrasil, which seemed a bit of a stretch... I'd been thinking of trying to write up the summary for the webpage, but I'm not sure how to reconcile novels being the highest level of canon with these odd details. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 03:13, 10 January 2021 (EST)

Fortune Charlie[edit]

Hi Frabby, I have not re-read the books, but from what you say, I nevertheless thing temporarily we should keep the information there and link to Operation CERBERUS once done, otherwise this piece of lore would be easily forgotten (at least for me).--Pserratv (talk) 07:21, 12 January 2021 (EST)

Cerberus and its sub-commands is covered in quite some depth in the novella A Splinter of Hope. If and when I get around to doing an article on Cerberus, Task Force Styx and Fortune Charlie within it will likely feature rather prominently. But I firmly believe Fortune Charlie should only be a redirect to the proper operation that it was a small part of. Calling Fortune Charlie a unit is at least misleading if not outright false, and as such I felt I couldn't just leave it there. Frabby (talk) 04:57, 13 January 2021 (EST)
I read it yesterday, and it is true what you say. As members of "Fortune Charlie", only one unit is spoken by name, the others are considered an assorted mix of units, like Jihad era conglomerate of small mercenary commands by Devlin Stone.
Once you have full article though, we should redirect this page to the section that specifically explains what "Fortune Charlie" represents.--Pserratv (talk) 05:22, 13 January 2021 (EST)

Emblematic Mech[edit]

Hello I finally take the time to write the Essay: Emblematic 'Mechs like you advise me to do almost a month ago (I had a lot of works before :(). I don't really feel like it's a true essay. I just extracted and centralized information dispersed in other articles, without putting thought or arguments. After, I have no idea if there is a better way to categorize it and you have far more knowledge on that than I. I would be very grateful if you can look at it and tell me what you think of it. Dermenore (talk) 16:48, 21 January 2021 (EST)

Images for individual starships[edit]

Hiya, I wanted to ask you to refrain from putting generic ship class images into articles about individual vessels, like in the Full Moon article. There is a less than 1% chance that this image is actually showing the Full Moon out of the 106 Potemkins ever built. Please only use images that are confirmed, or at least reasonably likely, to depict the specific vessel in question. I feel using generic images is like putting a regular Centurion image into the infobox of the Yen-Lo-Wang article just because Yen-Lo-Wang is a Centurion. If there is no picture for a specific starship then so be it. Frabby (talk) 15:07, 31 January 2021 (EST)

Frappy, do you know the long ODDS of individual Warship picture to be created? Likelness is 1% it will ever be made. That's crazy Frabby. Unless something special is made, i think that sort policy is bit going too far. --Wrangler (talk) 19:36, 4 February 2021 (EST)
I'm afraid this where we have to "Agree, to disagree". This a Warship, not a person with thinking mind or a unique one-off vessel. You can't capture EVERYTHING. I think your being too specific. This my personal view. Specially with BattleTech, Warships are least love units aside from ProtoMechs by some element of our fandom/gamedom. Warship is a Warship unless it's a variant. Frabby, the thing is that Full Moon, is a Clan 3057 version. Technical Readout: 3057 Revised spells it out that Clans changed their ships in this specific case. Mk39 looks like old Vincent from 2750. That's been established. Yet there now 2 kinds of McKennas. Completely different, like much of 2750 ships such as with Aegis specially, but again. 3057 Revised spell out which one is which when it happened. I think your going too far with this. Mjolnir for instance looks same as the sister ship. There no individual pictures of now destroyed second ship. As again, i think your being too picky. I say again, "Agree, to disagree". Your one main editors now here, i'm just some body who helps out since i can't complete in editing and my work isn't as close to people who those who here daily. What you say goes, i personally thing your going too far on dead end subject. I will do as you say, i think your in wrong this. I don't want be banned. -- Wrangler (talk) 15:44, 6 February 2021 (EST)

Developer Insights[edit]

I read a post on the official forum that had great insight into the changes to the Tukayyid "C" 'Mech record sheets. I feel like that would be great information to archive here in some way, but I'm not sure how. A link in the 'Mech article notes might work, but the BT forum are far from permanent. Any ideas or opinions?--Cache (talk) 14:32, 18 February 2021 (EST)

It's probably gonna be important when trying to explain that, and why, the "C" configurations were retconned to what was now established. As a first thought, perhaps copy that post into an Essay type article and link to that in the 'Mech articles whenever a "C" variant is discussed.
In the past I used to archive such information on the pertinent talk page; but this is different as it is not exactly a ruling, and also much longer. So I think it needs to be treated differently. Frabby (talk) 14:46, 18 February 2021 (EST)
I like the "essay" idea. I have PM'd the author for permission to copy.--Cache (talk) 19:51, 18 February 2021 (EST)

Sam Lewis in Wolves on the Border[edit]

Hey Frabby,

I have just done a search in my ebook copy of Wolves on the Border for Sam Lewis. I can't find any mention of him in the book.--Dmon (talk) 09:18, 4 March 2021 (EST)

Checked my print books, and ayup, you're right: It's one Prof. McGuffin (!!) who was mentioned along Dr. Banzai for the Jump Stabilizer. Seems I plainly misremembered. The reference to Professor-General Sam Lewis was in Warrior: Coupe instead, according to his article here. Might as well have looked there first. Frabby (talk) 11:00, 4 March 2021 (EST)

Image Categories[edit]

Hi Frabby,

Do you know how the system maps are generated? All those images don't have a category and this makes the Uncategorized files not very useful as from the first 1000 thousand maybe 95% images as these ones. And I do not want to put them in a category as this might affect the "program" that generates them. Do you know who can help? Maybe when the image is generated it can be put in a category like "System Images". I'm asking more people, but do you have any idea?--Pserratv (talk) 04:22, 8 March 2021 (EST)

Adding Design Programs in Left Menu[edit]

Do you think is worth adding a direct link the the design softwares? The pages I've been adding: Category:Battletech Design Software.--Pserratv (talk) 05:12, 22 March 2021 (EDT)

Board Game[edit]

Afternoon, Frabby. IRT Board Game, I'm not sure what to make of this page. It seems to attract the attention of multiple Editors, but...what is it saying? I'm thinking of categorizing it as either Lists or Miscellaneous, but...I just don't get it. Advise, please. --Revanche (talk|contribs) 12:38, 9 May 2021 (EDT)

It's funny that you raise this just now. I've had to take a short wikibreak of sorts and taking that step back made me realize there's a laundry list of admin-level issues on Sarna that needs to be adressed, or at least is becoming a serious problem from my viewpoint. Presentation, project coordination, category structure, article structures, newbie help, you name it. Artifact articles like this one you mentioned are a small facet of one of the major chapters on this wish list. I was going to discuss this with Nic and the active admins shortly and I'm extremely happy to have you back so expect mail shortly (couple of days probably). :) Frabby (talk) 13:03, 9 May 2021 (EDT)
Roger that, muh-man. I'll hold off on any action until in receipt of your treatise. --Revanche (talk|contribs) 13:20, 9 May 2021 (EDT)

Brawlers[edit]

Afternoon, Frabby. Would you please take a look at my attempt to update the Brawler article? I'm specifically asking for a review of the general completeness of the role's description and the (hopefully) fair-use presentation of the Alpha Strike description. If/when it is acceptable, I'm intending to update/build the remaining unit role articles, including for the ASFs. Thanks. --Revanche (talk|contribs) 15:26, 15 May 2021 (EDT)

Unfortunately I've never played Alpha Strike, never even completely read the AS rulebook. I'm totally in the dark about that game system. Frabby (talk) 03:07, 18 June 2021 (EDT)

Longbow Note[edit]

Hey Frabby. In the note you left on the Longbow article, it may be worth mentioning that Ral Partha produced the miniature using the Unseen image, in their catalog starting in 1988, which coincides with the appearances in Merc's Handbook and The Star League. --Cache (talk) 11:01, 21 August 2021 (EDT)

That's indeed worth noting. I don't have that catalogue, and didn't know that (I'm really not very much into miniatures). Can you expand the Notes to include this info? Frabby (talk) 11:07, 21 August 2021 (EDT)
I gave it a shot. Hopefully I got the point across while maintaining the flow.--Cache (talk) 11:59, 21 August 2021 (EDT)
Pretty good, thank you. I take it "sku" is part of the product name? In an ideal world we would have an article link here, but miniatures are the stepchild of Sarna and I am in no position to improve the situation. Frabby (talk) 12:16, 21 August 2021 (EDT)
SKU stands for Stock Keeping Unit--the manufacturers stock number for the product. It is listed in the catalog article, there just isn't an easy way to directly link to its exact location. Setting individual anchors is a bit of a task.--Cache (talk) 12:27, 21 August 2021 (EDT)

Four minor points[edit]

(Moved from user page to user talk page)

I can't get the hang of pinging on this wiki, so I came to your page. It's nice to have feedback because my efforts aren't perfect.

  • Re: AeroSpace Fighter, I've been using the Policy:BattleTech Style Guide connected to the Manual of Style, which requires CamelCase. I don't think I have a copy of the BattleCorps MOS.
  • Re: Mad Jumpin Jacks, it was inconsistent within the article so I went with what's at the Phoenix (Mercenary Command) page the unit name redirects to. I don't read German and I don't know if I have a PDF or doc of the novel to check against so I didn't even try to consult the original.
  • Re: Hyphen use in co-founder. I've been going with Fowler ("hyphens are regrettable necessities, and to be done without when they reasonably may") due in part to the over(mis)use of hyphens by CGL. I'm using a dictionary aggregator and the Chicago Manual of Style for hyphenation but I'm bound to get a few wrong.
  • Re: Correcting quotations. I try to consult the original text before correcting quotes but I know I miss some; I'm glad to have my mistakes corrected. I've actually had to correct a few quotes in other articles to match what's in the original product text.

It would have been helpful if FASA/FanPro/CGL had at least tried to be consistent in its own products... Madness Divine (talk)

PseudoTech[edit]

Hey Frabby. Saw that you removed Moratorium from PseudoTech: Arcade Operations. Please note this is not a Free product. It costs $2.99 in the CGL store and DriveThruRPG.--Talvin (talk) 11:59, 7 April 2022 (EDT)

D'oh. Me sloppy. Thanks for pointing out! Changing back. Frabby (talk) 12:03, 7 April 2022 (EDT)

Some German edition issues[edit]

Frabby. I encountered two issues related to German editions of certain novels. The issues are posted in Talk:List of German BattleTech novels and Talk:Shadows of War. Please feel free to share any insights that may help resolve those. Thanks. --Dude RB (talk) 22:23, 15 June 2022 (EDT)

Just gonna drop this here, as sorta related: Im Schatten der Bestie had some notes added to the Canonicity section about Mech names and mistranslations. I just moved it down to a Notes section and otherwise left it be, but if you get a chance, please take a look? Thanks!--Talvin (talk) 18:01, 17 June 2022 (EDT)

Intermedia X-Pulse Laser[edit]

I just saw that you reverted Intermedia X-Pulse Laser from where I had marked it for deletion. I am rather confused: it is one among a pile of similar redirects that used to point to Fanon, has nothing linking to it, and I can't see why it would need to stay?--Talvin (talk) 08:22, 21 June 2022 (EDT)

I did? Damn. Presumably another case of me hitting the stupid "rollback" button when I was really only trying to scroll down the recent changes on my not-so-smart phone. I hate that button! And this time I didn't even realize I had hit it. Re-deleted. Frabby (talk) 12:58, 21 June 2022 (EDT)
I have never tried to use this site on anything smaller than an iPad. Somebody rolled my userpage back a couple months, once. :D Thanks for fixing.--Talvin (talk) 13:00, 21 June 2022 (EDT)

Astronomical Features[edit]

Frabby, you raised a point about the definition of Category:Astronomical Features back in 2020. I know that idea may have grown dormant since then, but can you elabaorate (in Category talk:Astronomical Features) on the issues you see/recall from then and whether they still need attention now? --Dude RB (talk) 00:03, 5 July 2022 (EDT)

Thanks for the ping. I’ve replied over on the discussion page. Frabby (talk) 12:18, 5 July 2022 (EDT)

Japanese Editions[edit]

I seem to recall you collect foreign editions. I have done more detective work: Category_talk:Japanese_Editions --Talvin (talk) 13:25, 7 July 2022 (EDT)

ä[edit]

Glenmora (Individual Trutzburg-class äDropShip)--Talvin (talk) 08:31, 11 July 2022 (EDT)

Oops. Fixed. Frabby (talk) 16:35, 11 July 2022 (EDT)

25th Anniversary Introductory Box Set and BattleTech Einsteigerbox[edit]

Hello Frabby. I saw your removal of the German edition information from 25th Anniversary Introductory Box Set and the note on the edit. I am curious to get your vantage point on this. While the 2012 BattleTech Einsteigerbox did not adopt a German version of the title, it does appears that its cover and the components are a port over of those in the 25th Anniversary Introductory Box Set, using the component list from the archived product page from Ulisses-Spiele.) Some of the contained booklets have page counts off by four, but the descriptions of the maps and the 'Mechs, including the premium 'Mechs, seem to align. Even in the lower right hand corner of the cover File:BattleTech Einsteigerbox-cover.jpg there is a note that reads '25 jahriges jubilaum kampfkollosse des 4 jahrtausends' (trans. 25th anniversary of the battle colossi of the 4th millennium) so it also seems to be acknowledging the 25th anniversary of BattleTech. It would seem proper to classify this as a German version of the 25th Anniversary Introductory Box Set even though the title is vastly different. Is there something that I am missing or overlooking (whether in terms of interpretation or historical context)? An error on my part is quite possible, especially as German is not a language I am fluent in. I would be curious to get a proper understanding one way or the other. --Dude RB (talk) 19:47, 9 January 2023 (EST)

Need to research this a little more. The Anniversary Box and subsequent Introduction Box are very similar, that makes it difficult to decide which (if indeed any particular one) of them the German box is based on. It can't really be both though. Frabby (talk) 11:51, 14 January 2023 (EST)
One thing to note is that there are (at least) two different versions of the BattleTech Einsteigerbox. One released in 2012. And one released in 2014. Ulisses-Spielle calls the latter BattleTech Einsteigerbox (Neuauflage). See BattleTech Einsteigerbox and BattleTech Einsteigerbox (Neuauflage) for a comparison. In fact at the bottom of the web-listing for the older one is a link to the entry for the newer one. --Dude RB (talk) 12:59, 14 January 2023 (EST)

After looking into this I fully agree with you and have re-inserted the German edition parts into the 25th Anniversary Box article. Thanks for calling me out on this mistake. Frabby (talk) 05:55, 19 January 2023 (EST)

Thanks for the update and the independent confirmation. It is definitely good to have another set of eyes to help confirm or correct. --Dude RB (talk) 19:20, 20 January 2023 (EST)

Disambig (cont.)[edit]

Hi Frabby, I'm not sure if you read my last reply in my talk page's Disambig discussion. Have you given any more thought to matter? --Csdavis715 (talk) 09:08, 22 September 2023 (EDT)

Just checking in. As of this moment we are at 1,252 disambig pages and still climbing. I've finished going through all Clan characters and bloodnames currently in the database and have moved on to systems. Deadfire has helped me eliminate several hundred "structural" redirects to improve the search and autocomplete functions. Continuing to add disambig/seeother notes on non-Clan pages as previously discussed. Do you feel things are working and progressing to your satisfaction? Csdavis715 (talk) 07:23, 9 November 2023 (EST)
You're putting much more work into this than I ever did, honestly. I'm totally fine with it. In individual cases I might disagree regarding the disambig/seeother tag at the page header but if and when I run across something and actually find the time to lean into it, I'll ping you. Frabby (talk) 07:52, 9 November 2023 (EST)
Appreciate it. If you feel the wording of the tag can be improved, of course please make whatever adjustments you feel is appropriate. Sometimes it's not always clear and I'm just doing a quick scan of the article for key words to put in. Csdavis715 (talk) 08:06, 9 November 2023 (EST)
Following up on something. Going through the DropShips and WarShips looking for same-named ships, I didn't realize just how many ships were needlessly disambiguated. I didn't count but there's maybe 100? My feelings on this have changed since you first mentioned it last August. Some of them make sense and understandable to leave as is, but if given the opportunity one day I'd be happy to move 90% of them back to their appropriate, simplified links, along with text replacements to rid the wiki of redirects that we don't need, decluttering the search function a little. Csdavis715 (talk) 01:07, 4 March 2024 (EST)
Oh, you're really preaching to the choir here. Apparently, someone got the notion that all ship names should be disambiguated to "name (class, type)". That wasn't my idea and I never liked it. You are very welcome to purge unneccessary redirects and disambiguations! A word of caution though, there are some edge cases where a ship was renamed and one of its earlier names may be a redirect that requires disambiguation (we do try to track previous names by redirecting these names to the vessel's latest established name). Frabby (talk) 01:37, 4 March 2024 (EST)
When the time comes, I'll be thorough during my checks. :) Csdavis715 (talk) 02:21, 4 March 2024 (EST)

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